What's happened to the cycle parking in the High St?

[mikej]

If I may be so bold as to return to the topic of my original posting, I was pleased to see that the bike stands have now been fitted outside the Co-op.

Great news! And there are four when before there were only two.

The rest of you may now continue your wrangling about cycling or whatever.

[marymck]

I recently had surgery that meant I was a bit unsteady on my feet for a few weeks, and very conscious about not wanting people to knock into me. It made me slightly nervous at first, but I didn't encounter any problems on even the busiest streets. Am I unnaturally blessed in this regard?

I'm so glad you recovered safely from your surgery.

Balance problems in the elderly are chronic and very frightening and of themselves disabling.

I don't fall into that category, yet I have been knocked into three times by cyclists on pavements.Once in sydenham, once in camberwell and once (the most dramatic time) by a drunken cyclust in spitalfields. Luckily, I don't have bad balance problems, so I didn't hit the ground. I was quite badly bruised by the spitalfields cyclist though. On only the spitalfields occasion did I see the cyclist coming. He was too drunk for me to get out of his way. The others came from behind. The first I knew was when I got bashed. They carried on going.

I've also had to jump when crossing the road on leaving the London bridge hospital. In that case the cyclist steamed through a red light at the pedestrian crossing, scattering several (thankfully fairly lithe) pedestrians.

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[marymck]

If I may be so bold as to return to the topic of my original posting, I was pleased to see that the bike stands have now been fitted outside the Co-op.

Great news! And there are four when before there were only two.

The rest of you may now continue your wrangling about cycling or whatever.

And probably cheaper than the 18 stands that HB said could fit in a parking space and that I tried to advocate. So I guess that's all settled then. I'll write again to roads and highways, asking that ALL sydenham high streets on street parking bays be converted to disabled parking, as my suggestion of converting some of them to bike bays was so very unpopular with the cycling fraternity.

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[hairybuddha]

And probably cheaper than the 18 stands that HB said could fit in a parking space and that I tried to advocate.

I didn't say that.

[marymck]

I hope they'll be in sensible places, so that we can still have a market and so as
not to impede disabled pedestrians and those with prams.

By the station would seem a good place and in the Girton road car park.

The pavements seem to me to be far too cluttered with advertising stands, filthy phone boxes and ill placed telecoms boxes.

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Love this comment. Love it.

Yes, the High St is too cluttered so let's restrict the cycle parking to Station Rd and the CAR PARK behind the High St. HIlarious. So if we arrive by car we can take our pick of on street parking right outside the shops but if we arrive by bike we best stay out the way. Space is limited and I agree we should reduce clutter so may I draw everyone's attention to this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/carltonreid/6440857817/

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[hairybuddha]

So where did I say that you can fit 18 bicycle stands in a car parking space?

Come on now Mary, I know you have vowed to not engage with those who "hide behind" a pseudonym but at least I was big enough to apologise when I misrepresented your views.

[marymck]

I agree we should reduce clutter so may I draw everyone's attention to this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/carltonreid/6440857817/

This is the link provided by HB which claims that 18 bikes can fit into one car parking space. I haven't checked that claim, as I assumed HB was vouching for its accuracy.

Sorry I re-posted HB's full post without my comment. Finger trouble on my mobile.

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[hairybuddha]

For the avoidance of doubt, I was using the link to illustrate that if there is a problem with too little space on the High St, then the answer is the reallocation of space away from cars which are very space inefficient. Apology probably not forthcoming, oh well.

[marymck]

For the avoidance of doubt, I was using the link to illustrate that if there is a problem with too little space on the High St, then the answer is the reallocation of space away from cars which are very space inefficient. Apology probably not forthcoming, oh well.

Umm by using as evidence a link that was all about how many bikes can fit into the space taken by one car and which started by saying 18 bikes could park in the space taken by one parked car.

If you used the wrong link then I'm sorry I didn't realize you'd used the wrong link.

I suppose that's what I'm expected to apologise for. Either that or believing what HB's link said. Ho hum. Sorry for that too.

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[hairybuddha]

Glad we've got that clear. (Non) Apology accepted.

[michael]

I've heard Michael recount such experiences with cyclists on pavements before, yet I have never, ever had a similar experience or seen a similar incident. Do these incidents mostly happen on London Road, Michael, and if so, could they all be the same rogue cyclist (unlikely, I know, but I don't know how else to account for the discrepancy in our experiences).

Yes. I mainly walk on London Road so that is where I see most pavement cycling. But I see pavement cyclists all over London. I've also had a bit of a habit of getting in the way of cyclists who cycle on the pavement, which is probably why I've been called lots of nasty things, my suggestion of 'jump' is certainly a polite way to put what is said to pedestrians who get in the way, as I sometimes do.

But thanks to this forum I have seen the error of my ways and I go longer feel the need to dominate the pavement as a pedestrian. I just move out the way to let them past, while I admire all the good work they are doing for the environment. If I have to jump it is usually because I've been doing something stupid like listening to music, when I should be paying attention to the pavement heroes behind me.

[Tim Lund]

As an outstanding, but sometimes pedestrian, DNULAMC, I suggest Michael take a lead from cyclists, and wear a helmet fitted with a camcorder when venturing onto London Road, so that something better than anecdotal evidence could be brought before this august local tribunal.

[Tim Lund]

Cyclists will only cause minor injuries - broken arms and legs, and will rarely kill a pedestrian. It is only when such inconvenience is caused that we should start to be upset with cyclists on the pavement.

This is the rest of the section of Michael's post that Tim was referring to. Tim, I think you'll find Michael was being ironic here. He doesn't really believe we should only get upset when somebody is killed. I'm sure you don't either.

Sorry Mary - my auto-Michael filter had kicked in, and I'd missed that, so my better nature was giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Feels too long since I posted a graph, so here we go, to illustrate how serious the problem of cyclist / pedestrian conflict is:



Source here

But before you jump to conclusions, this data will include cases where the pedestrian was on the road. However, the typical grandstanding Tory MP (and fellow DNULAMC) highlights a particular case when a pedestrian was killed by a pavement cyclist, and blows her chance to do something worthwhile with winning the Private Members Bill ballot by proposing a Death-by-dangerous-cycling law, even though English Common Law has the remedy of manslaughter.

Most of us will probably remember this case, precisely because it was a rare event, but also playing into DNULAMC prejudices.

[Rachael]

Tsk, Tim. You forgot the caveat that these are reported cases. One assumes the number of deaths is accurately reported, but the number of injuries is probably under-reported.

However, the number of injuries caused by all sorts of things, not just cyclists on bikes, is under-reported, so none of it means much.

[marymck]

Tsk, Tim. You forgot the caveat that these are reported cases. One assumes the number of deaths is accurately reported, but the number of injuries is probably under-reported.

However, the number of injuries caused by all sorts of things, not just cyclists on bikes, is under-reported, so none of it means much.

Maybe under reported Rachael, but it's the first of Tim's graphs I've ever understood. They're usually far too complicated for me. So thanks Tim

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[michael]

As an outstanding pedestrian I suggest Michael take a lead from cyclists, and wear a helmet fitted with a camcorder when venturing onto London Road, so that something better than anecdotal evidence could be brought before this august local tribunal.

Would such evidence not also be anecdotal? I remember posting some pictures taken by Google StreetView, which is just slightly better than anecdotal.
I would quite like such a device but obviously not helmet mounted, but I think they are quite expensive. I was really annoyed that the last incident, where a cyclist was forced to assault an old man, my phone had died a few minutes before.

Thanks for the statistics. It goes to show what I now understand to be the case, that pavement cyclists are not a real problem and I shouldn't waste my time trying to persuade anybody otherwise, and why I recommend that pedestrians just keep out of their way. I'm not sure why you continue to see me as the enemy.

[14BradfordRoad]

This thread entitled "What's happened to the cycle parking in the High St?"...
Seems to have descended into a discussion about selectively rare and extremely bad examples of cycling!
We could so easily be debating Motorists or Pedestrians in exactly the same way as there are inevitably bound
to be bad examples in all walks of life.
I am a Pedestrian, Motorist and Cyclist who doesn't experience these bad examples of behaviour every hour
of the day and have never had a pavement cyclist run into me (ever!), maybe I'm just blessed or maybe some
are just looking at life through a half empty glass?

Can I suggest a small amount of 'Live and let live' here? Life really isn't as bad as some would have it!