Hello to all,
I know that there appears to be quite a lot of threads relating to people's consumtpion habits at the moment, but I would appreciate it if you could answer the following questions, to assist with some similar market research. A relative is looking to invest in developing a retail business that offers specialist beer produce, rather like a more stripped down version of Utobeer at Borough Market. I am trying to encourage this to happen in Sydenham but he needs some assurances that the local market exists to support the business. I recognise some of the questions are speculative and somewhat hypothetical but responses are welcome
1. Other than the pub where do you currently purchase your beer from?
2. What type of beer do people prefer to drink?
3. Do you currently purchase real ale, stout or specialist international beer, if so where from?
4. How often would you use a specialist beer shop, if one were to provide your preffered stock and opened on the high street? What would be your average monthly spend?
5. Are there certain drink products that you find hard to purchase either locally or via delivery? (wine, beer, cider etc)
Market Research
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blue&whitewizard1991
- Posts: 46
- Joined: 23 Jul 2008 18:32
- Location: Lawrie Park Road
Good, I'm glad this forum is being used in this way.
Ok, deep breath, here goes:
1. Other than the pub where do you currently purchase your beer from?
I don't unless I'm going to a party or a dinner party. IN that case I''' get it from Sainbury's or MFC3/ISTANBUL (the shop, not the Capital of Turkey). There isn't really much choice. I used to like going into oddbins of bottoms up in Greenwich and having someone suggest a drink to go with food etc. I love local expertise and service.
2. What type of beer do people prefer to drink?
I hate lager. So a real ale of something different. i like stout, porter or anything different or the occasional Belgian Beer. Fizzy Carlings etc all taste the same to me and taste cheap. Yuk. I like Gillesbies Stout (It's Scottish).
3. Do you currently purchase real ale, stout or specialist international beer, if so where from?
There is a brilliant Fullers pub near the Brewary (I think it's called the Dove). Somehow Fullers beers taste better there. I like trying real ales down in Devon where my parents live. There is no selection here, but I would occasionally use a place as described.
4. How often would you use a specialist beer shop, if one were to provide your preffered stock and opened on the high street? What would be your average monthly spend?
Probably every fortnight. As for how much, I have no idea.
5. Are there certain drink products that you find hard to purchase either locally or via delivery? (wine, beer, cider etc)
Yes, as I already said, it's the local expertise I miss. I'd love a local beer and wine shop with passionate staff who know what they are doing and can help me buy something I will enjoy. I go to local shops/restaurants because of the people who run them like Raff, Musti, etc. So I don't really buy wine or beer locally.
One point to note is that the local census is very out of date. A lot of people have moved here due to the value for money you get since 2001 (the date of the last census.) Sydenham has (I believe) 20,000 local residents. Judging by how busy Ghurkas, Tratorria, The Dolphin, Sugahill, Blue Mountain Cafe are (and the mix of people in the Golden Lion on Jazz nights) there is real potential given the right position, service, product and appearance.
I wonder if the council will allow a beer 'pop up shop' in one of the empty premises we have dotted around (George Proctors would be brilliant for a business like this) to 'test the water'. It's how innocent smoothies started (they had a stall at a fair and had two bin, if people liked the smoothies adn thought they should give up their day jobs to do this full time they put it in one, if they thought they should keep their day jobs they put it in the other one.
One bin was full at the end of the day and they now have 70% of the UK smoothie market.
Ok, deep breath, here goes:
1. Other than the pub where do you currently purchase your beer from?
I don't unless I'm going to a party or a dinner party. IN that case I''' get it from Sainbury's or MFC3/ISTANBUL (the shop, not the Capital of Turkey). There isn't really much choice. I used to like going into oddbins of bottoms up in Greenwich and having someone suggest a drink to go with food etc. I love local expertise and service.
2. What type of beer do people prefer to drink?
I hate lager. So a real ale of something different. i like stout, porter or anything different or the occasional Belgian Beer. Fizzy Carlings etc all taste the same to me and taste cheap. Yuk. I like Gillesbies Stout (It's Scottish).
3. Do you currently purchase real ale, stout or specialist international beer, if so where from?
There is a brilliant Fullers pub near the Brewary (I think it's called the Dove). Somehow Fullers beers taste better there. I like trying real ales down in Devon where my parents live. There is no selection here, but I would occasionally use a place as described.
4. How often would you use a specialist beer shop, if one were to provide your preffered stock and opened on the high street? What would be your average monthly spend?
Probably every fortnight. As for how much, I have no idea.
5. Are there certain drink products that you find hard to purchase either locally or via delivery? (wine, beer, cider etc)
Yes, as I already said, it's the local expertise I miss. I'd love a local beer and wine shop with passionate staff who know what they are doing and can help me buy something I will enjoy. I go to local shops/restaurants because of the people who run them like Raff, Musti, etc. So I don't really buy wine or beer locally.
One point to note is that the local census is very out of date. A lot of people have moved here due to the value for money you get since 2001 (the date of the last census.) Sydenham has (I believe) 20,000 local residents. Judging by how busy Ghurkas, Tratorria, The Dolphin, Sugahill, Blue Mountain Cafe are (and the mix of people in the Golden Lion on Jazz nights) there is real potential given the right position, service, product and appearance.
I wonder if the council will allow a beer 'pop up shop' in one of the empty premises we have dotted around (George Proctors would be brilliant for a business like this) to 'test the water'. It's how innocent smoothies started (they had a stall at a fair and had two bin, if people liked the smoothies adn thought they should give up their day jobs to do this full time they put it in one, if they thought they should keep their day jobs they put it in the other one.
One bin was full at the end of the day and they now have 70% of the UK smoothie market.
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bigbadwolf
- Posts: 726
- Joined: 7 Jan 2008 21:21
- Location: Forest Hill and Sydenham
Re: Market Research
"Other than the pub where do you currently purchase your beer from?"
After work on a friday, I get it from the off-licence because it's cold and I can't be arsed with faffing about in Sainsbury's during the evening crush. Less stress in other words. On Saturday I'll haunt the booze aisle looking for decent deals. I do this on a food shop during the afternoon and buy because I know I can leave it in the fridge until the evening to chill to an enjoyable temperature.
"What type of beer do people prefer to drink?"
I'm what you'd call a half 'n' half fuss-pot. Firstly, I never, and I mean never, drink alcohol during the day (before 8 p.m). This is by no means an attack on others that do, it's merely my own personal preference. Although I do like a couple of joints in the afternoon.
Now to beer...
I don't like Guinness or any other heavy stout. Never have. I like real ale and lager, but I'll only buy lager that is 4.5% to 5% strength. I also never buy English lager. Simply because it has next to no flavour and goes right through me. Leave it to the experts on the continent, I say.
"Do you currently purchase real ale, stout or specialist international beer, if so where from?"
Of the three, I only buy real ale. I buy it from Sainsbury's.
"How often would you use a specialist beer shop, if one were to provide your preffered stock and opened on the high street? What would be your average monthly spend?"
Never been to one.
"Are there certain drink products that you find hard to purchase either locally or via delivery? (wine, beer, cider etc)"
No. Unless you're alluding to an 'out-of-hours' service. For that I go to Keno's on Dartmouth rd who are actually quite reasonable considering the state I've been whilst on their establishment.
Apart from your questionaire, I have a suggestion.
Alot of the off-licences on Sydenham rd (the highstreet) should do themselves a favour and sort their fridges out. Apologies for tarring all with such a wide brush, but alot of them either have an open fridge arrangement such as Payless opposite the old Greyhound. Or those that have closed fridges are running them at too high a temperature. Call me old fashioned, but when I go to buy beer, I expect it to be cold. Not luke warm. Some however, like the Drink Store opposite L.A fitness run their fridges at a good temperature. And the last one on the left on the way down to savacentre (sorry, can't remember the name but it's opposite the flats on Porthcawe rd and it's run by black people).
I hope all of the above helps.
After work on a friday, I get it from the off-licence because it's cold and I can't be arsed with faffing about in Sainsbury's during the evening crush. Less stress in other words. On Saturday I'll haunt the booze aisle looking for decent deals. I do this on a food shop during the afternoon and buy because I know I can leave it in the fridge until the evening to chill to an enjoyable temperature.
"What type of beer do people prefer to drink?"
I'm what you'd call a half 'n' half fuss-pot. Firstly, I never, and I mean never, drink alcohol during the day (before 8 p.m). This is by no means an attack on others that do, it's merely my own personal preference. Although I do like a couple of joints in the afternoon.
Now to beer...
I don't like Guinness or any other heavy stout. Never have. I like real ale and lager, but I'll only buy lager that is 4.5% to 5% strength. I also never buy English lager. Simply because it has next to no flavour and goes right through me. Leave it to the experts on the continent, I say.
"Do you currently purchase real ale, stout or specialist international beer, if so where from?"
Of the three, I only buy real ale. I buy it from Sainsbury's.
"How often would you use a specialist beer shop, if one were to provide your preffered stock and opened on the high street? What would be your average monthly spend?"
Never been to one.
"Are there certain drink products that you find hard to purchase either locally or via delivery? (wine, beer, cider etc)"
No. Unless you're alluding to an 'out-of-hours' service. For that I go to Keno's on Dartmouth rd who are actually quite reasonable considering the state I've been whilst on their establishment.
Apart from your questionaire, I have a suggestion.
Alot of the off-licences on Sydenham rd (the highstreet) should do themselves a favour and sort their fridges out. Apologies for tarring all with such a wide brush, but alot of them either have an open fridge arrangement such as Payless opposite the old Greyhound. Or those that have closed fridges are running them at too high a temperature. Call me old fashioned, but when I go to buy beer, I expect it to be cold. Not luke warm. Some however, like the Drink Store opposite L.A fitness run their fridges at a good temperature. And the last one on the left on the way down to savacentre (sorry, can't remember the name but it's opposite the flats on Porthcawe rd and it's run by black people).
I hope all of the above helps.
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Bovine Juice
- Posts: 267
- Joined: 14 Oct 2007 11:35
- Location: Penge
Re: Market Research
Waitrose and my local offlicenceblue&whitewizard1991 wrote:
1. Other than the pub where do you currently purchase your beer from?
Real aleblue&whitewizard1991 wrote: 2. What type of beer do people prefer to drink?
Yes, I only buy British real ale and occasional stout. Bottles only. No lager and no continental stuff.blue&whitewizard1991 wrote: 3. Do you currently purchase real ale, stout or specialist international beer, if so where from?
I'd only use it if the price was right. I don't pay more than about £1.80 a bottle.blue&whitewizard1991 wrote: 4. How often would you use a specialist beer shop, if one were to provide your preffered stock and opened on the high street? What would be your average monthly spend?
Decent ale at a decent price. Waitrose is a bit far and the local Sainsburys and Lidl have a shocking selection.blue&whitewizard1991 wrote: 5. Are there certain drink products that you find hard to purchase either locally or via delivery? (wine, beer, cider etc)
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blue&whitewizard1991
- Posts: 46
- Joined: 23 Jul 2008 18:32
- Location: Lawrie Park Road
Thanks for all the coments so far, keep them coming. We particularly appreciate those who have gone beyond just answering the questions and have recommended some really interesting development ideas. In response to those additional items
Lee Newham - My friend has a good working knowledge of specialist beer and will be using the shop to extend that knowledge. The idea is to simplify what is quite a complex landscape of flavours and subtleties into core drink groups. He will look to offer core stock but also seasonal guest varieties across broad drink categories. We will be encouraging formal feedback on guest beers and those that are popular can make it into the core stock.
The Pop up shop idea is one that We're familiar with but it is often quite difficult to convince landlords into this arrangement as there aren't that many empty retail spaces on Sydenham high street. My friend has looked at George Proctors but it is a little on the large side for this offer.
BIgBadwolf - Couldn't agree with you more regarding fridge temperature. We will be storing produce at the correct storage temperature.
Bovine Juice - Price is an intersting consideration. Many specialist beers have large wholesale prices and this is often passed on through markups. I expect there will be plenty of British produce that meets your price limit, but much of the imported beer will be in excess of £2 a bottle. These are not designed as session beers and we dont intend to compete against the 12 packs of fosters you can get in Somerfield. But seen as an alternative to a bottle of wine, a beer that can be matched with food, then these prices are quite competitive.
Gman - Absolutely right about not wanting to limit the offer. The difficulty is that my friend will happily admit that his knowledge of wine is limited. We may well look to diversify the offer in this direction though. I personally was shocked, when for a special occassion I attempted to buy a bottle of Prossecco on the high street and couldnt find one anywhere.
Lee Newham - My friend has a good working knowledge of specialist beer and will be using the shop to extend that knowledge. The idea is to simplify what is quite a complex landscape of flavours and subtleties into core drink groups. He will look to offer core stock but also seasonal guest varieties across broad drink categories. We will be encouraging formal feedback on guest beers and those that are popular can make it into the core stock.
The Pop up shop idea is one that We're familiar with but it is often quite difficult to convince landlords into this arrangement as there aren't that many empty retail spaces on Sydenham high street. My friend has looked at George Proctors but it is a little on the large side for this offer.
BIgBadwolf - Couldn't agree with you more regarding fridge temperature. We will be storing produce at the correct storage temperature.
Bovine Juice - Price is an intersting consideration. Many specialist beers have large wholesale prices and this is often passed on through markups. I expect there will be plenty of British produce that meets your price limit, but much of the imported beer will be in excess of £2 a bottle. These are not designed as session beers and we dont intend to compete against the 12 packs of fosters you can get in Somerfield. But seen as an alternative to a bottle of wine, a beer that can be matched with food, then these prices are quite competitive.
Gman - Absolutely right about not wanting to limit the offer. The difficulty is that my friend will happily admit that his knowledge of wine is limited. We may well look to diversify the offer in this direction though. I personally was shocked, when for a special occassion I attempted to buy a bottle of Prossecco on the high street and couldnt find one anywhere.
I don't really drink beer or ale, but my partner does occasionally. If there was a small sub-section covering wines and spirits though I would definately shop here to support the a local sydenham business over sainsburies/ somerfield and the local off-licence on the corner of station approach.
I usually stop off here on the way home on a friday night after work... but always which there was a better alternative...
I usually stop off here on the way home on a friday night after work... but always which there was a better alternative...
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biscuitman1978
- Posts: 1588
- Joined: 16 May 2006 20:14
- Location: Chislehurst; previously Sydenham
Good luck to your relative if he/she goes forward with this. It would certainly be a great addition to the high street.
I must say that if it was a genuinely specialist shop it would have quite a large catchment, i.e. it would be a destination rather than just serving the immediate locality. In other words, if only a few people reply postively to this thread then he/she shouldn't be discouraged!
In response to your questions:
1. I don't drink a great deal at home, but when I do it could be both ale or decent lager. When I do buy beer it's from an off licence or small grocery stores, or else it's given to me as a present if a relative goes somewhere which sells specialist/local beers
2. I drink ale (but avoid watery stuff like Courage Best and Sam Smiths, generally preferring Fullers when I'm in London) and lager (the crisper continental stuff, inc from eastern and central Europe)
3. See 1
4. I suspect I might buy three or four bottles of ale or specialist lager a month (as I say, I don't drink much at home)
5. The availability of ales by SA Brain (south Wales) is limited in this part of the world. And being able to get Ojusko or Karlovachko from Croatia would be great!
I must say that if it was a genuinely specialist shop it would have quite a large catchment, i.e. it would be a destination rather than just serving the immediate locality. In other words, if only a few people reply postively to this thread then he/she shouldn't be discouraged!
In response to your questions:
1. I don't drink a great deal at home, but when I do it could be both ale or decent lager. When I do buy beer it's from an off licence or small grocery stores, or else it's given to me as a present if a relative goes somewhere which sells specialist/local beers
2. I drink ale (but avoid watery stuff like Courage Best and Sam Smiths, generally preferring Fullers when I'm in London) and lager (the crisper continental stuff, inc from eastern and central Europe)
3. See 1
4. I suspect I might buy three or four bottles of ale or specialist lager a month (as I say, I don't drink much at home)
5. The availability of ales by SA Brain (south Wales) is limited in this part of the world. And being able to get Ojusko or Karlovachko from Croatia would be great!
1. Other than the pub where do you currently purchase your beer from?
Sainsburys - usually get the beers from here purely for convenience as it's nearer to me and they have offers on occassionally
2. What type of beer do people prefer to drink?
Any of the popular brands really - and probably whatever is on offer.
3. Do you currently purchase real ale, stout or specialist international beer, if so where from?
Lidl - they have good offers on and I like to try a few so will pick up a couple of bottles in here when I'm doing a shop in there.
Sainsburys - their range is improving and will pick up some from here if there are any decent offers on
4. How often would you use a specialist beer shop, if one were to provide your preffered stock and opened on the high street? What would be your average monthly spend?
I would probably pop in and have a browse every other weekend probably or perhaps once a week on way home from work
Avg monthly spend......finger in the air....maybe £20 ???
5. Are there certain drink products that you find hard to purchase either locally or via delivery? (wine, beer, cider etc)
no
I buy wine too from all of the above - perhaps 2 bottles a week. I like to try different types of wine,beer,ale
Sainsburys - usually get the beers from here purely for convenience as it's nearer to me and they have offers on occassionally
2. What type of beer do people prefer to drink?
Any of the popular brands really - and probably whatever is on offer.
3. Do you currently purchase real ale, stout or specialist international beer, if so where from?
Lidl - they have good offers on and I like to try a few so will pick up a couple of bottles in here when I'm doing a shop in there.
Sainsburys - their range is improving and will pick up some from here if there are any decent offers on
4. How often would you use a specialist beer shop, if one were to provide your preffered stock and opened on the high street? What would be your average monthly spend?
I would probably pop in and have a browse every other weekend probably or perhaps once a week on way home from work
Avg monthly spend......finger in the air....maybe £20 ???
5. Are there certain drink products that you find hard to purchase either locally or via delivery? (wine, beer, cider etc)
no
I buy wine too from all of the above - perhaps 2 bottles a week. I like to try different types of wine,beer,ale
1. Other than the pub where do you currently purchase your beer from?
Waitrose or local off-licenses.
2. What type of beer do people prefer to drink?
Premium lagers, Belgian beers (I love Utobeer and buy lots of gifts for people from there - it's just such a pain to carry it home from Borough), real ales. I'm not a fan of stouts but my spouse is..
3. Do you currently purchase real ale, stout or specialist international beer, if so where from?
Utobeer when I can be arsed to pack them home, Waitrose.
4. How often would you use a specialist beer shop, if one were to provide your preffered stock and opened on the high street? What would be your average monthly spend?
I'd pop in once a week, my spouse probably the same. If you included wine in your mix, our spend-per-visit would go up. I like Nicholas or Oddbins for wine buying, but happily used the Threshers at Penge East before it closed and I really miss having even a half-decent local wine retailer.
5. Are there certain drink products that you find hard to purchase either locally or via delivery? (wine, beer, cider etc)
As I've said, it's mainly a question of convenience. I can order things on the Internet, but I'd rather buy beer & wine in person as needed.
Waitrose or local off-licenses.
2. What type of beer do people prefer to drink?
Premium lagers, Belgian beers (I love Utobeer and buy lots of gifts for people from there - it's just such a pain to carry it home from Borough), real ales. I'm not a fan of stouts but my spouse is..
3. Do you currently purchase real ale, stout or specialist international beer, if so where from?
Utobeer when I can be arsed to pack them home, Waitrose.
4. How often would you use a specialist beer shop, if one were to provide your preffered stock and opened on the high street? What would be your average monthly spend?
I'd pop in once a week, my spouse probably the same. If you included wine in your mix, our spend-per-visit would go up. I like Nicholas or Oddbins for wine buying, but happily used the Threshers at Penge East before it closed and I really miss having even a half-decent local wine retailer.
5. Are there certain drink products that you find hard to purchase either locally or via delivery? (wine, beer, cider etc)
As I've said, it's mainly a question of convenience. I can order things on the Internet, but I'd rather buy beer & wine in person as needed.