Many of you will be aware of the Mayors decision in February 2007 to refurbish Forest Hill Pools subject to further feasibility work. This work has now been undertaken and a report on the outcomes will be discussed at the Mayor and Cabinet meeting next Wednesday 13 February – 6pm at the Town Hall. For the details of the report see below:
[http://www.lewisham.gov.uk./NR/rdonlyre ... ry2008.PDF]
The pools are badly cracked and leaking so that there are inherent risks and difficulties with the refurbishment. The officers are recommending demolition and clearance of the site including Louise House and engaging with representatives of the local community as well as users of the pool to develop the design and feasibility work.
We have funding for a new 25m pool, a learner pool, fitness suite and community facilities. We plan to cross subsidise the cost with new housing on the pocket park next to the pool and replacing the park with extensive landscaping from the library across the new frontage. This new building will be complementary in architectural style to the library.
As well as being a Sydenham Councillor I am the Cabinet Member for Community Services that includes leisure facilities and I would be pleased to hear your views on a new leisure facility.
Cllr Chris Best
Forest Hill Pools
I love the building. To lose yet another building of beauty and history would be a huge mistake that could never be undone.
No doubt if it were to be pulled down it would be replaced by a boring bland box designed by committee at huge expense that cost many times the original budget.
We are one of the worlds biggest economies and we can even save a little bit of our heritage. The more we destroy beautiful examples of our past the more we destroy a bit of our own identity.
The Ladywell pools are a good facility and yet they are being pulled down, despite millions being paid out by Lewisham council on a refurbishment recently and a new facility built nearer to Lewisham Town Centre.
I lived in North London and the Kentish Town pools are similar to these. They are being refurbished under very similar circumstances. If Camden can do it, why can't Lewisham?
So many buildings have been lost and replaced by incredibly ugly structures (the Cinema in Sydenham high street being one example).
We should be proud of what we have. Other boroughs are. There is ALWAYS a solution.
No doubt if it were to be pulled down it would be replaced by a boring bland box designed by committee at huge expense that cost many times the original budget.
We are one of the worlds biggest economies and we can even save a little bit of our heritage. The more we destroy beautiful examples of our past the more we destroy a bit of our own identity.
The Ladywell pools are a good facility and yet they are being pulled down, despite millions being paid out by Lewisham council on a refurbishment recently and a new facility built nearer to Lewisham Town Centre.
I lived in North London and the Kentish Town pools are similar to these. They are being refurbished under very similar circumstances. If Camden can do it, why can't Lewisham?
So many buildings have been lost and replaced by incredibly ugly structures (the Cinema in Sydenham high street being one example).
We should be proud of what we have. Other boroughs are. There is ALWAYS a solution.
I understand that a lack of maintenance of the pools is the reason that they dengenerated to such a condition. That aside,
It would be a real shame to lose, at least the frontage of, the building. Though with the amount of 'unknowns' at this stage, no-one could guarantee that any part of the original building could be saved. This is why the most prudent course of action would be to demolish and rebuild.
The green space to the side of the pools does not seem to be used by anyone, but it would still be a shame to lose another green area.
i only hope that local residents are given the opportunity to consult on any proposed schemes.
Alib
It would be a real shame to lose, at least the frontage of, the building. Though with the amount of 'unknowns' at this stage, no-one could guarantee that any part of the original building could be saved. This is why the most prudent course of action would be to demolish and rebuild.
The green space to the side of the pools does not seem to be used by anyone, but it would still be a shame to lose another green area.
i only hope that local residents are given the opportunity to consult on any proposed schemes.
Alib
Thanks for the link to that report Chris - makes for interesting reading. Whilst tearing down yet another Victorian building does not sound like good news to me, the report does put forward a good case as to why refurbishment would be a bad idea under these circumstances. The second option, of retaining the frontage building whilst rebuilding the rest of the site, does on the face of it sound like a good compromise. However, the report does say (although not in any great detail) that this does have some downsides to it, such as the overall cost and lack of compliance with the Disability Discrimination Act. Demolition and replacement with new build does therefore have certain attractions. Perhaps not surprisingly, I have a certain scepticism about how good the new buildings would be. So as part of the consultation I would be looking for more information as to why retention of the frontage building would be so problematic and what the plans for the new buildings will actually be.
Oh dear - you said the plan was to BUILD HOUSES ON A PARK to fund the redevelopment. Prepare for an attack of the NIMBYS....
The rebuild of the nearby library looks great, and works well. But I suppose the library building would be lot less complex to repair than a swimming pool.
If you can save the existing pool frontage - great. If not, please don't go for some rubbishy Victoriana pastiche - do something striking and modern.
Apart from the immediate vicinity of Forest Hill Station, one of the most striking aspects about both London Road and Dartmouth Road is that there is no overall architectural style. Mansion blocks sit next to 1960 terrace houses, Victorian villas next to 30s-style modernist places.
The only type of building that really WOULD fit into pool site is one that won’t look anything like the place next door.
The rebuild of the nearby library looks great, and works well. But I suppose the library building would be lot less complex to repair than a swimming pool.
If you can save the existing pool frontage - great. If not, please don't go for some rubbishy Victoriana pastiche - do something striking and modern.
Apart from the immediate vicinity of Forest Hill Station, one of the most striking aspects about both London Road and Dartmouth Road is that there is no overall architectural style. Mansion blocks sit next to 1960 terrace houses, Victorian villas next to 30s-style modernist places.
The only type of building that really WOULD fit into pool site is one that won’t look anything like the place next door.
Forest Hill Pools
It is quite unusual for me to think this way about old buildings, but I don't really like the Forest Hill pools building or the other derelict building very much. They are far inferior to the library and I can't even see a makeover making them any prettier. They look really gloomy! A bright, modern, buidling with lots of glass would be far more attractive, I think, and would probably be more attractive to young people who we are always being told 'have nothing to do' and 'no where to go'. As always though a decent amount would have to be spent on landscaping too to complement it. We really need a decent leisure centre in this part of the borough and that could be the perfect spot.
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Steve Grindlay
- Posts: 606
- Joined: 4 Oct 2004 05:07
- Location: Upper Sydenham
Some more history... <Forest Hill Pools>
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Steve Grindlay
- Posts: 606
- Joined: 4 Oct 2004 05:07
- Location: Upper Sydenham
...and I've added a few pictures <here>
Re: Forest Hill Pools
Stop dithering and make a decision..............Chris Best wrote:As well as being a Sydenham Councillor I am the Cabinet Member for Community Services that includes leisure facilities and I would be pleased to hear your views on a new leisure facility.
Cllr Chris Best
How long has this been going on for?
How long are the kids (and adults) going to be without this badly needed local facility?
it's a load of bullshit this "hear your views"...it's obvious the decision has already been made, and I bet that this seeking of public opinion is some kind of legal box that has to be ticked, but the results of which do not need to be heeded.
goodbye lovely old building that's part of your country's heritage...hello modern uninspiring ikea flavoured building that will allow them to turn a greater profit.
goodbye lovely old building that's part of your country's heritage...hello modern uninspiring ikea flavoured building that will allow them to turn a greater profit.
Personally, i would like to see an official public consultation. Not neccesarily on which parts of the existing building may be retained, but certainly on any proposed design for a new building. Any proposed development could have a major positive impact for Forest Hill, but equally could have detrimental impacts for some residents.
Lets hope a formal consultation occurs soon, rather than the vagueness of residents sending letters and emails. The process should be fully transparent.
Here's hoping....
Alib
Lets hope a formal consultation occurs soon, rather than the vagueness of residents sending letters and emails. The process should be fully transparent.
Here's hoping....
Alib
Calm down mate! There are some very clear (and difficult) decisions to be made on the pools. Here is a local politician asking our views in a very public way and we should welcome the chance to make them heard.
We've already had a widespread public consultation on what happens to the pools. The majority wanted the two existing pools renovated within the framework of the existing building. The council took this on board and proceeded to do just that. However, a more detailed examination of the pools indicates that they are too damaged to be renovated so we are now facing decisions about a brand new pool building or one which incorporates parts of the old building.
Our local council has a good history of consultation on FH pool and they are offering locals the opportunity to make their voice heard on this important matter now that the existing structure simply can't be saved.
This is a very important local public facility and many locals want to make our voices heard on this project - and I am confident they will be.
(PS I very much look forward to meeting you in the Summer to play cricket when you can tell us all how much better democracy is done in Australia but until then, let us "locals" have our say - please!)
We've already had a widespread public consultation on what happens to the pools. The majority wanted the two existing pools renovated within the framework of the existing building. The council took this on board and proceeded to do just that. However, a more detailed examination of the pools indicates that they are too damaged to be renovated so we are now facing decisions about a brand new pool building or one which incorporates parts of the old building.
Our local council has a good history of consultation on FH pool and they are offering locals the opportunity to make their voice heard on this important matter now that the existing structure simply can't be saved.
This is a very important local public facility and many locals want to make our voices heard on this project - and I am confident they will be.
(PS I very much look forward to meeting you in the Summer to play cricket when you can tell us all how much better democracy is done in Australia but until then, let us "locals" have our say - please!)
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Muddy Waters
- Posts: 137
- Joined: 2 Oct 2004 17:05
I would hope that by "locals" Nasaroc means local residents, particularly those who used to, and would like to in the future, use the swimming/fitness facilities on this site.
These would, of course, include the previous user groups including Saxon Crown and the octopush club, the adult classes, and the local schools which are currently having to bus children to pools elsewhere at, presumably, tax payers expense and, of course, the many individual users who exercise independently at their local community fitness centre.
There are also the folk who have a thread of history flowing through their veins and the architects and conservationists who, no doubt, would want to preserve what is best of the old building, hopefully incorportaing it in the new - if that is the option chosen.
The previous consultation was very flawed, in my opinion, because it was a blanket consultation throughout SE23 and SE26 with a leaflet being posted through 30,000 doors and the couple of options offered were biased towards a rebuild and that would have been on the pools site alone.
At least this time round the whole of the site is being looked at, including Louise House. I think there is a chance that we could get a really good facility and we should start to concentrate on getting the best Leisure Centre in Lewisham for the local residents.
These would, of course, include the previous user groups including Saxon Crown and the octopush club, the adult classes, and the local schools which are currently having to bus children to pools elsewhere at, presumably, tax payers expense and, of course, the many individual users who exercise independently at their local community fitness centre.
There are also the folk who have a thread of history flowing through their veins and the architects and conservationists who, no doubt, would want to preserve what is best of the old building, hopefully incorportaing it in the new - if that is the option chosen.
The previous consultation was very flawed, in my opinion, because it was a blanket consultation throughout SE23 and SE26 with a leaflet being posted through 30,000 doors and the couple of options offered were biased towards a rebuild and that would have been on the pools site alone.
At least this time round the whole of the site is being looked at, including Louise House. I think there is a chance that we could get a really good facility and we should start to concentrate on getting the best Leisure Centre in Lewisham for the local residents.
I'm happy to continue the assertion by lamb chops that we are being "conned" by local politicians in this consultation on another thread. I'm sorry that I reacted to his claim, since I think that this thread should be about our views of what we want to replace the swimming pool.
I too would prefer a design which retains the frontage of the old building - or at kleast parts of it. The three buildings - the library, Louise House and the swimming pool are very much "of a style" and it would be good to retain if we can. I've seen very successful designs which combine brick and stonework with glass and I think that a sensitive mix of the two could work successfully here.
I too would prefer a design which retains the frontage of the old building - or at kleast parts of it. The three buildings - the library, Louise House and the swimming pool are very much "of a style" and it would be good to retain if we can. I've seen very successful designs which combine brick and stonework with glass and I think that a sensitive mix of the two could work successfully here.
Not withstanding the 'unknowns' regarding retention of parts of the exisitng building, I would like a total rebuild.
Remember the consultation before the new Wembley stadium was built? Lots of people wanted to retain the twin towers and some other less-important parts of the stadium. Using hindsight, that (IMHO) would have been a great waste. The new Wembley stadium is a facility to be proud of, and retention of old ,crumbling victorian features would have been detrimental to the new design.
Whilst the old pools building exhibits some interesting features, I don't feel it warrants retention in the slightest. We can do a lot better
My opinion.
Alib
Remember the consultation before the new Wembley stadium was built? Lots of people wanted to retain the twin towers and some other less-important parts of the stadium. Using hindsight, that (IMHO) would have been a great waste. The new Wembley stadium is a facility to be proud of, and retention of old ,crumbling victorian features would have been detrimental to the new design.
Whilst the old pools building exhibits some interesting features, I don't feel it warrants retention in the slightest. We can do a lot better
My opinion.
Alib
How come it does'nt have a conservation order on it?
it's a beautiful building and would be sadly missed.
i'm not one to want to keep something for the sake of it, i'm more than happy to see the blind shop in sydenham high street be re-developed for example, but something as beautiful as this should be saved, even if it is not used as baths anymore,but housing or something.
