Goodbye Sydenham Community Radio

[admin]

Their website http://sydenhamradio.co.uk died on October 6th. Nobody could be bothered to save it or, to date, the material accumulated over the years. This was largely built with public money. It should belong to us. I just get a stony silence when I have the temerity to enquire what is going on or do they need help?

I think this a scandal and symptomatic of a malaise in Sydenham not limited to this website. You can check out my rant here: http://sydenham.org.uk/goodbye-sydenham ... ity-radio/

I truly hope someone will come along and say rubbish to that. And if they need any help publicly or privately they can post or PM me here.

Admin

[Tim Lund]

Re the Sydenham Town Centre, have you followed up with Chris Best?



I share your frustrations. You may have deleted it, but this is an email I forwarded you 17th April last year, addressed to various local contacts:

Hi Y'all

This probably isn't going to work since, although you're all people I know locally who've done at least some posting to Wordpress sites:

khlga.com
forestwiththebighill.org
dacreswood.org.uk
sfhyouthforum.org.uk
amgfriends.org

you're maybe not quite as interested in the technical side as me. OTOH, it's by working with people like you that I learn more, so if any of you were up for meeting sometime later in the year to exchange ideas, experiences, wish list items, then let me know.

Any other local WordPress sites you know? I know of the Sydenham Community Radio site, but I don't know who does it - only that she's called Eleanor (I'm trying to make contact). There are also sites maintained by Pen Else, e.g.

sydenhamartsfestival.co.uk
see3.co.uk
sydenhamtowncentre.com

but I believe she gets paid for these as also the developer for the Sydenham Society site, which is also WordPress, and I think this should be strictly amateur.

I subsequently found the details for the Eleanor doing the Sydenham Community Radio web site, and wrote to her

Hi Eleanor

If there's anything you are struggling with, it might be worth asking me to help - I like challenges like that.

In the meantime, I'm thinking how best to proceed ... and just now had what might prove to be a brain wave, realising that there was someone else I know locally regularly contributing to a Wordpress site - Jess Kyle, who does natureconservationlewisham.co.uk. Friends of Dacres Wood had an informal meet up last night to talk about how we do our web site, what we want it to be, and I completely forgot about Jess' site, even though we were also talking about how the study centre a few yards away was used. Could be a good place for a meet up, if we can be sure that it has wi-fi access.

Tim

That was the last I heard.

The offer still stands - I've not checked which local cafés do and do not have wi-fi access, but I'm sure we could find somewhere

And obviously the offer extends to anyone else now doing stuff on Wordpress!

[admin]

Re the Sydenham Town Centre, have you followed up with Chris Best?

Yes. There has been much talk but zero observable action. This site is as about useful to Sydenham Traders as is The Greyhound. Left to rot and a blight on our town centre.

'Cept it is a trivial issue to solve. Given a competent person who knows Wordpress. There's lots of those about. Frustrating.

Sydenham Radio is probably just as easy to bring back to life as a podcaster if anybody is listening.

Admin

[Tim Lund]

'Cept it is a trivial issue to solve. Given a competent person who knows Wordpress. There's lots of those about.

We agree, but the psychology of it needs to be considered. You and I may be confident in what we are doing in Wordpress, while realising that there's a whole lot we could still learn - at least, there is for me. But there are many other people who aren't at the same level, but still want to make a contribution to some community site or other. Of course there may be some who know much more - I'd like to be exchanging ideas with them just as much. Even more, though I recognise that it's always stressful having something technical explained which you don't quite understand.

So when you write 'a competent person who knows Wordpress', there's a danger of putting off people who know less, and making them feel incompetent and unsure of themselves, so defensive about what they can manage, and reluctant to work with those of us who seem so sure of ourselves, for fear we will take over.

Of the list of sites I included above, khlga.com and forestwiththebighill.org are two with are on my web hosting space, and which I helped set up, but I happily let those involved get on with it. My vision is for a way of exchanging as well as we can whatever we happened to have picked up.

Wordpress is so rich that we're always able to learn. One reason I wanted to help with the Sydenham Community Radio site was to learn about how Wordpress handles audiostreaming.

If anyone knows anything about using CSS with Wordpress, I'd be especially interested to hear from you - it's something I've never really got to grips with.

[Tim Lund]

I should have added Lee - he's set up some good local Wordpress site. Apologies.

[admin]

We are at cross purposes Tim. I was lamenting the loss of two extensive and expensive town projects and looking to see if anything can be done to bring them back to life.

That means assessing other people's work, reconfiguration and third party software and hardware. That requires competence - i.e. previous experience. We don't need another amateur night on these.

Setting up new sites is another matter where the skills required can grow with the project. That's a completely different thing. Your posts are in danger of obscuring my purpose. Would you like to trim them back to the issue in question and/or move 'em into Town Asylum?

Meanwhile any Traders or Radio people listening?

Admin

[Tim Lund]

I suppose it's a matter of what's most likely to make a difference - having a go at the Sydenham Assembly, or making the point that as well as being easy to sort out the problems if you know how, there's also a way for those now responsible for these sites to learn how, and stay in control.

In your listing of maybe misspent Sydenham Assembly money, you overlook some money which went to the Sydenham & Forest Hill Youth Forum for a data gathering exercise on local business involving some local sixth formers, which Melissa & I were involved with. We handed all the data over, so I don't feel we wasted the money, and anyway part of its value was for the training.

If you still feel I should move what I wrote to the Asylum, then I will - or edit it as you wish - you hereby have my permission.

[Chris Best]

For info the last time the Sydenham Assembly voted on funding for the Community Radio project was in December 2010 - £5,000 and from memory this included the licence to broadcast on a particular bandwidth. The project also moved from Sydenham Road to the library. I think the project ran into problems on broadcasting live so ended up online with a schedule of weekly broadcasts.

A while ago I had a chat to Darren at Sydenham Community Library because the equipment was still in the rear room that could provide a rental income for the library. An offer had been made for the Radio project to move into one of the smaller rooms. The outcome of all this is that Darren wants to run a radio project at the library and I will go back to find out more on progress. Anyone want to volunteer to relaunch?

On the Sydenham Town Centre web site I have seen a different layout in wordpress as the previous site was too complicated for lay people, like me, to use. Great if we have volunteers to update the site once relaunched - I have been asking traders as it is their site to keep up to date.

[Tim Lund]

On the Sydenham Town Centre web site I have seen a different layout in wordpress as the previous site was too complicated for lay people, like me, to use. Great if we have volunteers to update the site once relaunched - I have been asking traders as it is their site to keep up to date.

A further thought. As Admin says, there are lots of people with various levels of Wordpress skills out there. If I wanted someone to maintain a web site, I wouldn't expect her to be a senior member of LB Lewisham's cabinet. How come you end up having to do this? If there was some other bit of machinery you couldn't get to work, would you hesitate to ask some you knew nearby who might be able to help?

And in editing this, I managed to delete what was there before, which was to ask who the traders you have been asking are, and why not put them in touch with me or Admin?

As for the Sydenham Community Radio site - Admin has said all I did.

[admin]

A while ago I had a chat to Darren at Sydenham Community Library because the equipment was still in the rear room that could provide a rental income for the library. An offer had been made for the Radio project to move into one of the smaller rooms. The outcome of all this is that Darren wants to run a radio project at the library and I will go back to find out more on progress. Anyone want to volunteer to relaunch?

It would be great if there could be a relaunch. It will depend on volunteers, and maybe, volunteers with particular skills. It may or may not happen.

I was thinking more of preserving what has been done. What is in the cans of tape (or whatever media they use these days) and getting it back into the public domain. That could help underpin a relaunch but isn't dependent on it.

The point you could make to Darren is to ask what is there in recorded form and does he need a hand in bring it back to life? If he would like to call a meet formally or informally?

Admin

[Chris Best]

Admin - why not have a chat to Darren yourrself to see what equipment is in the rear room - last time I looked through the window the banner was on the back wall and a table full of broadcasting equipment. I think it would be fantastic if there was a relaunch in time for the completion of the works on the literary piazza. We are planning the next Sydenham Assembly on Saturday 6 December at the library and this will be followed by Christmas entertainment provided by Sydenham Arts to launch the piazza. We will be lighting up the Christmas tree and singing carols so an ideal opportunity for the radio to record the festivities.

[Rebelmc]

As somebody who was involved in Sydenham Community Radio at the highest level, from the very first consultation meeting, to the very last gathering of what remained of the Board of Directors, I feel it behoves me to answer some of the questions raised in this thread.

To begin with, I'm going to resist the temptation to go off on my own rant, suffice to say that whilst I have some sympathy with Admin's sentiments regarding the idea that the public have some form of claim on the ownership of the SCR project, (however tenuous that claim may be) it's a shame that a few of them weren't a little more forthcoming when we were looking for support for various initiatives, or indeed new additions to our management team, opportunities for which were advertised on this very website.

I should also point out that, far from not being bothered, over the six (+) years of it's existence, a good number of people, besides myself, put in an extraordinary amount of time and effort into keeping the project afloat, right to the very death, with very little thanks or reward, outside our own small circle.

I'm sure I can speak for many of my former colleagues when I say that the implication that we, somehow, allowed the project to sink without a fight, is at best misinformed, at worst downright offensive.

The current position is, once it became clear that the incumbent Board were not able to progress any further, having explored every avenue that seemed to be open to us (and some that weren't even slightly ajar) we took the decision to put the whole thing in the hands of Darren Taylor, who seems to be best placed to take things to the next chapter, given his existing business infrastructure and community involvement, which will be essential to the ongoing future of SCR, in whatever form it may take.

With regard to the website, at the point of handover, the person responsible for it's hosting had already informed us that he no longer wished to perform that function, so his account was paid up to date and I assume he has now got around to turning something off.

As for the future, I can only speculate, but Darren has a fully functioning studio at his disposal and likely has plans, although if he has taken on board the advice that we offered, if and when the radio station returns, it will be aimed at a far larger market, because a Sydenham only station has no long term viability.

[admin]

To begin with, I'm going to resist the temptation to go off on my own rant, suffice to say that whilst I have some sympathy with Admin's sentiments regarding the idea that the public have some form of claim on the ownership of the SCR project, (however tenuous that claim may be) it's a shame that a few of them weren't a little more forthcoming when we were looking for support for various initiatives, or indeed new additions to our management team, opportunities for which were advertised on this very website.

I think a rant would be misplaced and its great to have a response from someone I know put a lot into it. Yes - I saw the plea on the site. Indeed for something like two years I have been chasing through various channels to find out what is happening and if help was needed, I could not get any sense from anyone. Just excuses.

A couple of months ago I warned about the domain expiration issue - to then be told it had been handed over to Darren. I wrote to him about it but received no response.

Hence you will see from this viewpoint that the site and stuff has been needlessly allowed to die by default. Is a resurrection possible? If Darren is not talking or doing is that it? Can somebody closer to him find out?

Is it possible to set up a meeting of some sort?

Admin

[Rebelmc]

As far as I know, a stand alone hard disc exists which has an archive of most, if not all of the programmes that were ever put out; I don't know if the audio is raw and as broadcast, or edited, as posted on the website, but it's all there, I just don't know who has it now, probably Darren.

As for putting it up on the net, that could be a bit of a minefield, for a number of reasons.

For a start, the name is registered at Companies House, so you would need to negotiate with Darren to use it, in case it conflicts with his future plans.

Then there's the question of copyright content, as the vast majority of the shows were either music based, or featured music somewhere in them; we needed a licence to legally put them up on our website, the price of which increased with the length of the files and the time they were left available for. Presumably, the same rule would apply to anyone else who put them on the internet, unless you painstakingly edited out all the music, which means you wouldn't have much left worth posting.

Maybe archive material isn't subject to the same rules, so perhaps, for example, you could dedicate a small corner of this website to the memory of SCR, but I've never considered the possibility of doing this, so I've never looked into it, although I can't imagine under what circumstances you could claim not to need licencing.

There's also the question of it's relevance; although it might be nice to go back and relive some of our finest (and not so fine!) moments, even the newest shows are now two years old and I assume that any reincarnation of the station is likely to bear very little resemblance to the original, in fact, as I hinted, I wouldn't be very surprised if there is no discernable connection between old and new, so I doubt it could be seen to be keeping things ticking over, pending some kind of relaunch.

As for meeting with Darren, I made it clear to him that I would be happy to help with any problems he might have (not least because I'm one of the few people who knows everything that's in the studio and how it all works) but he hasn't been in contact yet, so it's either not high on his present list of priorities, or he's figured it out for himself and is doing his own thing, which would be his prerogative.

But I'm not averse to talking to him, if it's helpful.

[broken_shaman]

re licensing issues surrounding uploads of archives, services like mixcloud permit this.

http://www.mixcloud.com/

Copyright: Is Mixcloud licensed to play copyrighted music?
Last Updated: May 28, 2014 06:57PM IST
Mixcloud is committed to supporting artists who appear in Cloudcasts which contain music, and has an objective to provide a superior legal alternative to file sharing for DJs and radio presenters.

As such, Mixcloud is a licensed radio service and has agreements with various collecting societies around the world. Royalties are paid to the collecting societies, who in turn pay out to the appropriate labels and artists based on their individual recording and publishing deals.

http://support.mixcloud.com/customer/po ... ted-music-

[admin]

Preserving unique stuff is important. DJ-ed music is, I guess, records which are not unique. I was thinking of the spoken word content. Only copyright would apply there, sidestepping the music royalty issue. The copyright is presumably vested in the still existing company. Do we know who owns that with its assets?

Even so such material is unlikely to have material value so a request that it be licensed without charge or public domain-ed might seem reasonable if not desirable..

The popular Museum part of STF indicates there is a steady demand for local historical material. Recorded reminiscences of our more mature population would be great. Is there any of that? Might it also be a possible future project (having a local Hospice is an opportunity to grab memories before they are lost)?

That's what I was thinking - an online repository of audio mainly spoken material specific to Sydenham. Maybe not the original concept but one that could be revived for peanuts. Other thoughts welcome.

Admin

[Tim Lund]

Rumours of the death of Sydenham Community Radio have clearly been exaggerated. It returned this year for a special Halloween podcast

Listen to Sydenham Community Radio’s Halloween events podcast