Deliveroo

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Deliveroo

Postby leenewham » 8 Aug 2017 12:08

Rather than discourage services such as Deliveroo in Sydenham, why not encourage it?

Why not offer spaces for the bikes in the high street. Why not help local businesses offer home delivery? Why not make it easier for shops and change local planning to allow businesses to offer these services?

If can be done. There is no such thing as can't.

https://savethehighstreet.org/on-demand-delivery-local-community/

More bikes, more home deliveries, less cars picking up stuff. Win win?

Is this a good thing? Do you use home delivery services or order online? Do you pick up your takeaway or get it delivered?
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Re: Deliveroo

Postby Sydenham » 8 Aug 2017 13:41

I don't mind traditional home delivery services - but am conscious that the newer types (Deliveroo, UberEats etc.) are explicitly structured in a way that does not allow their workers to receive standard benefits such as sick pay, holiday pay and other basic benefits. They class their delivery teams as self-employed - they don't seem self-employed in the traditional sense.These are commonly known as gig economy companies.

I can see the flexibility these firms offer - but benefits are skewed too much to the company ("employer...") - the model has not been adopted to benefit the actual delivery teams themselves. Currently the employment tribunals are finding in favour of the delivery teams. A balance needs to be struck.

And so I do mind using firms that follow this model - it seems that as a society we have forgotten why trade unions developed in the 19th Century. I would want any restaurant that I take food from to pay all involved in the preparation, cooking and delivery of their meals fairly.

When the balance is more equally weighted between both sides then it might be acceptable. But until then I don't want a 'vibrant' high street that is built on exploitation - Sydenham can do better than that..
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Re: Deliveroo

Postby stuart » 8 Aug 2017 13:59

leenewham wrote:More bikes, more home deliveries, less cars picking up stuff. Win win?

Surely it would be more efficient, cheaper, faster and result in better meals if you shopped at Sainsbury's opposite whether for ingredients or even a 'ready' meal? I mean you can pack a lot of meals into one visit - which most of us can do on foot anyway - bit more of a win-win?

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Re: Deliveroo

Postby leenewham » 8 Aug 2017 15:26

It would be better if we all grew our own vegetables, only drank tap water, made our own clothes and only holidayed in the garden.

But really life isn't like that is it? Some people like a pizza. Or they like chicken. Or they like a curry.

Unless you limit choice, people will choose. The question I'm posing is whether delivery services and other innovations that other high streets offer should be encouraged here too so our local shops can compete.
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Re: Deliveroo

Postby vbsydenham » 8 Aug 2017 15:43

These things should definitely be encouraged. But as mentioned upthread, services like Uber Eats and Deliveroo bring real ethical concerns with they way they treat their "employees".

Perhaps we could divert some energy to enabling consumers to easily get to and from the High St by low tech, green means like cycling and walking? Advocates of high st regeneration often overestimate the importance to their businesses of the car and - by extension - parking.

Sydenham High St would be transformed for the better if it wasn't a through road for people trying to dodge the South Circular and people would spend more and stay longer and then we wouldn't be so reliant on poverty wage "employers" like Uber and Deliveroo.

p.s I don't mean this to be a moan or a thread hijacking - Just look at the transformation in Orford Rd in Tower Hamlets to see what I mean.
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Re: Deliveroo

Postby mosy » 8 Aug 2017 16:06

leenewham wrote:It would be better if we all grew our own vegetables, only drank tap water, made our own clothes and only holidayed in the garden.

But really life isn't like that is it? Some people like a pizza. Or they like chicken. Or they like a curry.

Unless you limit choice, people will choose. The question I'm posing is whether delivery services and other innovations that other high streets offer should be encouraged here too so our local shops can compete.

[my bold]
Isn't it a non-question? Businesses which want to offer a delivery service to suit their business model will do so whether "we" encourage it or not. Also, it would be nonsense to suggest that the council would expect every small retail unit to magically create from nowhere multiple parking spaces for their short-stay customers so I assume there's no active discouragement that needs tackling?

FWIW I'm happy for sit-down restaurants to offer takeaway/delivery as it could help mitigate drowning from overheads if bums on seats are insufficient in number midweek.
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Re: Deliveroo

Postby stuart » 8 Aug 2017 17:17

leenewham wrote:It would be better if we all grew our own vegetables, only drank tap water, made our own clothes and only holidayed in the garden.

But really life isn't like that is it? Some people like a pizza. Or they like chicken. Or they like a curry.

Conflating two things there Lee. All that may be good but if its quality,convenience and speed you are I fail to see what most delivered takeaways bring to the party.

If you want a decent pizza you can quite good (premium) ones. We loved the Co-op own brand. I mean what do have to do? bung it in an oven for 12 mins - then on to a plate, throw on some weeds from the fridge, splash a bit of weedkiller on top and bob's your uncle. Probably less than 5 mins of work. Result, something vastly superior to the over/under cooked splodge that has been sweating in a nasty cardboard box for how long?

Having had to check their website, make the call, wait for a random length of time, go to the door, remember where you put your wallet etc - no time saving at all. So I stand by my claim the alternative is more convenient, cheaper and better. But I seemed to be losing the same argument with my kids.

Where did I go wrong?

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Re: Deliveroo

Postby Steveofsyd » 10 Aug 2017 22:16

What a lot of pompous nitwits raining on every parade. For goodness sake move on like so many other areas of London have. Year on year this forum gets no better. What a soggy bunch of damp squibs!
Lee tries very hard to show some enthusiasm that I'm sure the majority who live in Sydenham would support, but of course the regular "grumpies" have to jump in.
It's so depressing.
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Re: Deliveroo

Postby parker » 11 Aug 2017 06:54

Steveofsyd wrote:What a lot of pompous nitwits raining on every parade. For goodness sake move on like so many other areas of London have. Year on year this forum gets no better. What a soggy bunch of damp squibs!
Lee tries very hard to show some enthusiasm that I'm sure the majority who live in Sydenham would support, but of course the regular "grumpies" have to jump in.
It's so depressing.

Couldn't agree with you more
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Re: Deliveroo

Postby prince » 11 Aug 2017 06:57

The rise of the internet, changing consumer behaviours and evolving modern retailer requirements are all calling into question traditional models of how centres work.

To survive and to flourish town centre stakeholders need to think creatively about how they respond to these changes.

Its great that people like Lee are doing just that!

Couldn't agree more with this idea.
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Re: Deliveroo

Postby Pally » 12 Aug 2017 11:15

Yup sounds creative, open minded, looking to future models etc!
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Re: Deliveroo

Postby mosy » 12 Aug 2017 12:19

I'd still like leenewham to tell us why he thinks anyone with clout is actively against delivery bikes. Lee?

Let's not forget that offering/running a delivery service costs a lot of money per week so it might not be a viable addition for many retailers who are doing fine as they are, hence the high street is unlikely to be clogged nose to tail with them any time soon.

What's wrong with letting delivery bikes for shops who want them keep the low profile they have? Doesn't "enthusiasm" for multiplication of them merely draw unwanted attention whereby restrictions on them might be dreamed up that don't already exist in case they might become a problem?

I'd rather it remained that they weren't a problem so are under the "clout" radar, with any odd one that is a problem being addressed singly.

Others might want to enthusiastically bang the drum. I reckon it's better to keep quiet.
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Re: Deliveroo

Postby Sydenham » 13 Aug 2017 09:51

prince wrote:The rise of the internet, changing consumer behaviours and evolving modern retailer requirements are all calling into question traditional models of how centres work.

To survive and to flourish town centre stakeholders need to think creatively about how they respond to these changes.

Its great that people like Lee are doing just that!

Couldn't agree more with this idea.


Rise of internet has made possible lots of good things - ability to do things that couldn't be done before at an economic cost. It has also allowed new ways of exploiting people including workers (and consumers).

I'm all for innovation - but not at the expense of exploiting people. At the moment these new model delivery service operators do just that (trying to circumvent current legislation through sham and bogus contracts) - as the employment tribunals are showing. When they adapt their procedures to more fairly make use of their workforce then they should be welcomed (as long as there is space to store their bikes). Until then I don't think they should be encouraged.
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Re: Deliveroo

Postby prince » 14 Aug 2017 17:16

Sydenham wrote:
prince wrote:The rise of the internet, changing consumer behaviours and evolving modern retailer requirements are all calling into question traditional models of how centres work.

To survive and to flourish town centre stakeholders need to think creatively about how they respond to these changes.

Its great that people like Lee are doing just that!

Couldn't agree more with this idea.


Rise of internet has made possible lots of good things - ability to do things that couldn't be done before at an economic cost. It has also allowed new ways of exploiting people including workers (and consumers).

I'm all for innovation - but not at the expense of exploiting people. At the moment these new model delivery service operators do just that (trying to circumvent current legislation through sham and bogus contracts) - as the employment tribunals are showing. When they adapt their procedures to more fairly make use of their workforce then they should be welcomed (as long as there is space to store their bikes). Until then I don't think they should be encouraged.


I appreciate what you are saying, however are you confident that all of our existing high street businesses provide contracted hours, pay at least the minimum wage and provide holiday and sick leave?

I have worked with small businesses in London over many years. Often work is cash in hand, with no benefits and where people are hired and fired with no recourse.

Having spoken to a young polish worker recently this was exactly their experience of working as a kitchen hand in one of our local restaurants.

Are companies like Deliveroo any better or worse?
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