The central heating equation
The central heating equation
Anyone got an idea on this, expressed as annual degree seconds, or where there is a web site with the data on annual diurnal temperature fluctuations? In case it's not obvious, this is about calculating the return on investment for improving the "U" value of some windows and doors.
Or would this be easier to think about?
Re: The central heating equation
I told you not to use those pictures of me Tim!
It's unusually warm for this time of year, we haven't really had the heating on at all bar a few hours here and there on two days a few weeks ago.
It's unusually warm for this time of year, we haven't really had the heating on at all bar a few hours here and there on two days a few weeks ago.
Re: The central heating equation
And he's got 3 twins.
Re: The central heating equation
An Archive Information Officer at the Met Office (who loves the thermals) has sent me data for hourly temperatures in St James Park in 2004, which I have now used to calculate my prospective return on investment on the assumption that I am a commuting pelican of regular habits
Source here
Photographer's site here
With these actual inputs
I came up with real returns rather greater than I initially estimated - of between 0.84% for some existing patio doors rising to 2% for front bay window upgrades. It's not as if what I have now is that bad - it would have been fairly good when installed about 15 years ago - so it's a measure of how much technology has improved.
There is a possible link here to current discussions about who should pay for keeping us all warm, and also installing UPVC windows, but maybe for another time.
Returning to the CH equation, it would be interesting to know what statistical measures could capture the variability across years, and geographically from St James Park. I'll try to find out.
Source here
Photographer's site here
With these actual inputs
I came up with real returns rather greater than I initially estimated - of between 0.84% for some existing patio doors rising to 2% for front bay window upgrades. It's not as if what I have now is that bad - it would have been fairly good when installed about 15 years ago - so it's a measure of how much technology has improved.
There is a possible link here to current discussions about who should pay for keeping us all warm, and also installing UPVC windows, but maybe for another time.
Returning to the CH equation, it would be interesting to know what statistical measures could capture the variability across years, and geographically from St James Park. I'll try to find out.
Re: The central heating equation
As most energy is and will be imported we have little or no control on the costs. Simples.
Apparently out energy cheaper than Germany.
When I was young only one room heated . Remember freezing bedroom in Victorian house , freezing bathroom etc but we got used to iy.
Of course one wore thick clothing in the winter. Why do some people find this so strange.
Apparently out energy cheaper than Germany.
When I was young only one room heated . Remember freezing bedroom in Victorian house , freezing bathroom etc but we got used to iy.
Of course one wore thick clothing in the winter. Why do some people find this so strange.
Re: The central heating equation
Yes - having varying thermostats in different rooms also makes a difference, although modeling temperature variations within a house is going to get tricky.
Re: The central heating equation
Tim
I remember highly dodgy advice from the then electricity boards that it was more efficient to leave immersion heaters on permanently (rather than a twice a day heat up for baths and washing up etc).
I also think there are some dodgy storage heaters around the country spewing out heat at the wrong time .
Definitely room for more advice and as Eagle says warm clothing . When I knock at a door in winter to be greeted by someone in a singlet I do have to bite my tongue.
A very good afternoon
Nigel
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I remember highly dodgy advice from the then electricity boards that it was more efficient to leave immersion heaters on permanently (rather than a twice a day heat up for baths and washing up etc).
I also think there are some dodgy storage heaters around the country spewing out heat at the wrong time .
Definitely room for more advice and as Eagle says warm clothing . When I knock at a door in winter to be greeted by someone in a singlet I do have to bite my tongue.
A very good afternoon
Nigel
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
Re: The central heating equation
I remember as a lad waking up to hoar frost on the inside of my bedroom window. Really. If you told kids now a days ...Eagle wrote: When I was young only one room heated . Remember freezing bedroom in Victorian house , freezing bathroom etc but we got used to it.
Of course one wore thick clothing in the winter. Why do some people find this so strange.
Re: The central heating equation
We need to make our homes better insulated.
It's interesting what was said about energy companies at the recent MP hearing by an energy company outside the big 6.
This is interesting:
http://www.goodenergy.co.uk/blog/articl ... -come-from
43% of our electricity comes from the UK.
This is also interesting:
http://www.gas-guide.org.uk/science.html
We import about 10% of our gas apparently. By 2020 we will import 50% of our gas.
If you don't like your tariff, switch. It's not difficult. There are many to choose from, many who aren't the big 6 like Ecotricity.
It's interesting what was said about energy companies at the recent MP hearing by an energy company outside the big 6.
This is interesting:
http://www.goodenergy.co.uk/blog/articl ... -come-from
43% of our electricity comes from the UK.
This is also interesting:
http://www.gas-guide.org.uk/science.html
We import about 10% of our gas apparently. By 2020 we will import 50% of our gas.
If you don't like your tariff, switch. It's not difficult. There are many to choose from, many who aren't the big 6 like Ecotricity.
Re: The central heating equation
I well remember having no central heating as a child. The first time I lived somewhere with central heating was in halls at University. I also remember the excruciating pain of chilblains.
My own practice with my central heating has changed radically in recent years. I work from home so need parts of the house heated for most of the day. I have the house zoned and have thermostats on all the radiators. I used to heat the house in the morning, turn the heating off when it got to the right temp, turn it back on when I got too cold. Rinse and repeat.
During a particularly cold spell a few years ago when everyone was home over the Christmas holidays and demanded to be warm, I left the thermostat turned up to 20 degrees for 12 hours a day and 15 degrees overnight for about 10 days. I was expecting a whopper of a bill. It wasn't much higher than normal. I looked at the graph of my usage - there was a small rise for that period compared to the year before, but not a lot.
I talked to my 'boiler man' about this and he advised that with modern boilers it is indeed much more fuel efficient to get the house up to a comfortable temperature and then leave the thermostat alone. Don't turn it down to turn off the heating. Let it tickle the boiler up and down. Because (of course) it takes less energy to maintain the temperature required than to bring it up to temperature from maybe ten degrees lower.
So my thermostat goes from 20 degrees first thing in the morning to 18 degrees all day, back up to 20 in the evening and no lower than 15 over night. My gas consumption has gone down.
My own practice with my central heating has changed radically in recent years. I work from home so need parts of the house heated for most of the day. I have the house zoned and have thermostats on all the radiators. I used to heat the house in the morning, turn the heating off when it got to the right temp, turn it back on when I got too cold. Rinse and repeat.
During a particularly cold spell a few years ago when everyone was home over the Christmas holidays and demanded to be warm, I left the thermostat turned up to 20 degrees for 12 hours a day and 15 degrees overnight for about 10 days. I was expecting a whopper of a bill. It wasn't much higher than normal. I looked at the graph of my usage - there was a small rise for that period compared to the year before, but not a lot.
I talked to my 'boiler man' about this and he advised that with modern boilers it is indeed much more fuel efficient to get the house up to a comfortable temperature and then leave the thermostat alone. Don't turn it down to turn off the heating. Let it tickle the boiler up and down. Because (of course) it takes less energy to maintain the temperature required than to bring it up to temperature from maybe ten degrees lower.
So my thermostat goes from 20 degrees first thing in the morning to 18 degrees all day, back up to 20 in the evening and no lower than 15 over night. My gas consumption has gone down.
Re: The central heating equation
Agree Rachael,
I lived in a house as a student that had no central heating. My curtains used to freeze to the insides of the glass. The bathroom had constant mould on the walls and the bath (metal) would get cold in minutes, so you had the quickest baths in history.
My first flat was freezing too in the winter.
Now we have a wood burning stove with a stirling engine fan above. It's been an amazing investment and definitely keeps the heating bills down, plus we insulated under the floorboards and put about 3 feet of recycled insulation in the loft.
I lived in a house as a student that had no central heating. My curtains used to freeze to the insides of the glass. The bathroom had constant mould on the walls and the bath (metal) would get cold in minutes, so you had the quickest baths in history.
My first flat was freezing too in the winter.
Now we have a wood burning stove with a stirling engine fan above. It's been an amazing investment and definitely keeps the heating bills down, plus we insulated under the floorboards and put about 3 feet of recycled insulation in the loft.
Re: The central heating equation
Same here. I think we got central heating in the mid 1980s. I certainly remember scraping ice off my bedroom window from the inside.
When I get my own house, I want some of these. They're solar panels crossed with heat pumps, and can be used as a replacement for a central heating boiler.
http://www.thermodynamicukltd.co.uk/ind ... Itemid=115
When I get my own house, I want some of these. They're solar panels crossed with heat pumps, and can be used as a replacement for a central heating boiler.
http://www.thermodynamicukltd.co.uk/ind ... Itemid=115
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Re: The central heating equation
I would question the logic of maintaining the thermostat at 15 , or leaving the boiler on at all overnight.Rachael wrote:
I talked to my 'boiler man' about this and he advised that with modern boilers it is indeed much more fuel efficient to get the house up to a comfortable temperature and then leave the thermostat alone. Don't turn it down to turn off the heating. Let it tickle the boiler up and down. Because (of course) it takes less energy to maintain the temperature required than to bring it up to temperature from maybe ten degrees lower.
So my thermostat goes from 20 degrees first thing in the morning to 18 degrees all day, back up to 20 in the evening and no lower than 15 over night. My gas consumption has gone down.
At nighttime the outside temperature will fall, in wintertime most likely significantly more then the 3 degrees difference between your daytime & night time target temperature for the house. Therefore the temperature gradient between the internal and external temps will be greater, meaning that the heat loss will be larger , meaning your boiler has to work harder (use more gas ) to replace the lost heat, all the while, presumably, the occupants of the house are being kept warm by bedclothes. It's true the boiler will have to work harder when its turn on in the morning, but it is unlikely to be the same amount of energy as leaving it on for eight hours a night, even at 15. IMO.
Of course, if you have a super insulated home then the above is less critical as the heat losses will be vastly reduced.
Re: The central heating equation
Set at 15 it very rarely comes on. Only when it's extremely cold. These are the temperatures that work for me, in my house, for the particular location of my thermostat. It's not an exact science and the numbers will be different for other people.
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Re: The central heating equation
You can't beat the 2nd law of thermodynamics