Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

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Tim Lund
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Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by Tim Lund »

I'll be watching Evan Davis again this evening with the second of his BBC 2 two parter on modern cities

Mind The Gap: London Vs The Rest

and I recommend it to anyone.

In the first part, he mentioned what seems like a current buzz word in the area - agglomeration - about which there is more in this post from the New York Times

Why Humanity Loves, and Needs, Cities

For the time being I will leave it to others to make any connections between all this and other issues discussed on this Forum.
Tim Lund
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Re: Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by Tim Lund »

leenewham wrote:Have you seen this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26472423
Sure. It has a link to another piece in the NYT by Ed Glaeser, which also is interesting.

Hoping HB is reading this, and enjoyed reading "The Triumph of the City", by the same guy.
Last edited by Tim Lund on 24 Jun 2014 07:01, edited 1 time in total.
Eagle
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Re: Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by Eagle »

Tim
Good to see you are still active as ever in the Forum despite Lent.

That indeed is great news to all and sundry in SE 26.

I do agree London / UK a bit unbalanced. Paris is the same in France

However Germany and Italy are very different .

In Germany Financial Centre is Frankfurt - Main , whereas the Political Capitol is Berlin
There are also incredibly strong regional cities such as Munich , Stuttgart , Cologne , Dusseldorf / Ruhr and Hamburg.
No city is dominant.

Trouble is we are where we are and cannot change to German model .
hairybuddha

Re: Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by hairybuddha »

Tim Lund wrote:Hoping HB is reading this, and enjoyed reading "The Triumph of the City", by the sane guy.
I did, it was excellent. Need to find an oportune moment to return it to you. Found 'Mind The Gap' very interesting but the entire premise of the second episode wouldn't last 5 minutes in the presence of the UK political reality.
stuart
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Re: Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by stuart »

Eagle wrote:In Germany Financial Centre is Frankfurt - Main , whereas the Political Capitol is Berlin
There are also incredibly strong regional cities such as Munich , Stuttgart , Cologne , Dusseldorf / Ruhr and Hamburg.
No city is dominant.
But each city was probably dominant in its area prior to the unification of Germany. Italy is another latecomer to nationhood and Rome fails to dominate its sister cities.

Whereas older countries tend to have a more dominant capital - France, UK, even Spain with the one exception of Barcelona (but then that sees itself as the capital of another country).

I guess the unifying power around a monarchy draws in the nation's best - or at least most ambitious. Not to mention money pouring into the exchequer from the rest of the country to be spent at the central government's whim. These industrial development of these countries cemented this with radial communication networks rather than, say Germany's greater interconnectivity which, if anything, puts Berlin a bit out on the edge and hence inhibits its growth into a dominant city despite unification.

Stuart
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Re: Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by stuart »

hairybuddha wrote:political reality.
Oxymoron Shirley?

Stuart
leenewham
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Re: Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by leenewham »

We used to be more balanced (although London was always the biggest). Industry and manufacture in the North. Finance in the capital. Docks and shipping in Bristol, Southampton, London and Liverpool. Agriculture in the SW and Wales.

We missed a trick by now making HS2 link Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham and Scotland FIRST. It takes far longer to travel between these centres than between them and London. Many large corporations are moving out of London to save money. Making the other cities more desirable would help solve the housing crisis, relieve the pressure on London and spread the wealth around the UK a bit more and it might make house prices more manageable.

Or lets be really radical, move the capital and parliament to another city, perhaps more central to the UK in a city with more expansion potential. Mad? Well, Brazil did it in 1961, Australia did it in 1927, Canada did it in 1857, Russia in 1918, India in 1947, Belize in 1970, Tanzania in 1970, Nigeria in 1991 and Iran is thinking about changing it from Tehran. Malawi changed it from Zomba to Lilongwe in 1974.

Italy has changed their capital a few times, from Turin, to Florence, to Salerno to Rome.

Turkey moved it's capital from Istanbul to Ankara in 1923.

Still think it's a mad idea?

German didn't in 1999.

Or an even madder idea, why not have two administrative centres? The Netherlands do. So does South Africa, Sri Lanka, Israel, Bolivia and Malaysia.

I think that anything that deflects the intense beam of attention shining on London is a good thing for the country as a whole. Economies are a bit like engines, and all the bits of the machine need to work together for maximum efficiency. At the moment, I don't think that's the case.

Tim? Care to shower me with emails and links I will never open? Lol ;-)
hairybuddha

Re: Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by hairybuddha »

stuart wrote:
hairybuddha wrote:political reality.
Oxymoron Shirley?

Stuart
:lol: Yes

But don't call me Shirley.
Tim Lund
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Re: Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by Tim Lund »

Eagle wrote:Tim
Good to see you are still active as ever in the Forum despite Lent.

That indeed is great news to all and sundry in SE 26.
Thanks. It's only controversy I'm giving up.
Tim Lund
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Re: Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by Tim Lund »

hairybuddha wrote:
Tim Lund wrote:Hoping HB is reading this, and enjoyed reading "The Triumph of the City", by the same guy.
I did, it was excellent. Need to find an oportune moment to return it to you. Found 'Mind The Gap' very interesting but the entire premise of the second episode wouldn't last 5 minutes in the presence of the UK political reality.
The premise of the second episode being that there could be a east to west corridor developed to link dynamic Northern cities such as Manchester and Leeds, and also some currently less dynamic such as Liverpool and Bradford.

Anyone for George Osborne & HS3?
The chancellor has set out his vision for an economic "powerhouse" in the north of England but could Manchester, Leeds and other northern cities link up to rival London?

George Osborne said improved road and rail connections would allow cities across northern England to push on and be "greater than the sum of their parts".
Manchester and Leeds: Could they rival London?
hairybuddha

Re: Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by hairybuddha »

Tim Lund wrote:George Osborne said improved road and rail connections would allow cities across northern England to push on and be "greater than the sum of their parts".
Crucially, better rail connections between Northern cities rather than North > South.
Tim Lund
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Re: Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by Tim Lund »

hairybuddha wrote:
Tim Lund wrote:George Osborne said improved road and rail connections would allow cities across northern England to push on and be "greater than the sum of their parts".
Crucially, better rail connections between Northern cities rather than North > South.
Indeed, which is what George Osborne seems to be cottoning on to.

I know we all love to hate him, but I think some credit is due.
Eagle
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Re: Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by Eagle »

I agree Tim , credit to George.

It takes a long time by train from Liverpool to Kingston upon Hull.
Rachael
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Re: Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by Rachael »

My family in the North West are clamouring for HS3 to be done first. Makes sense to me.
hairybuddha

Re: Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by hairybuddha »

This country is too small for high speed rail to be worth the investment. Far better that the money is used to increase the links between cities (especially in the North) and generally improve conditions and pricing on the existing railway. We're already decades behind the best examples.
Robin Orton
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Re: Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by Robin Orton »

hairybuddha wrote:This country is too small for high speed rail to be worth the investment. Far better that the money is used to increase the links between cities (especially in the North) [...]
I'm surprised HB didn't mention the urgent need for trans-Pennine cycle tracks.
hairybuddha

Re: Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by hairybuddha »

That would have been a gratuitous derailment :lol:
dickp
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Re: Mind The Gap: London vs The Rest / Agglomeration

Post by dickp »

While they're at it, would they mid improving the road and rail links between Bristol and Cardiff - cos' dowdy, public sector-dependent Cardiff certainly needs some of Bristol's economic sparkle.
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