Are Hall Drive signs legal.

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Eagle
Posts: 10658
Joined: 7 Oct 2004 06:36
Location: F Hill

Are Hall Drive signs legal.

Post by Eagle » 8 Sep 2014 09:57

Strolled down Sydenham's poshest road , or so the residents believe , on Sunday.

I noticed numerous of their notices threatening fines of 85.00 pounds for parking on their road. I thought there had been new leglislation making such punitive fines illegal ?

There was infact one grey Chelsea tractor , quite out of place in London , which had not been booked.

JRobinson
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Joined: 5 Jan 2010 12:40
Location: De Frene Rd

Re: Are Hall Drive signs legal.

Post by JRobinson » 8 Sep 2014 12:01

I am under the impression that Hall Drive is a private road, in which case it's entirely up to them (the owners/residents), and they can do what they like (stricly speaking in highways terms, it's not public highway so not funded by govt, but they do still have to abide by legal things like the correct signage, road markings etc, to ensure that any fines that they deliver are enforceable) I've not been there and seen it but if it's singed that they'll fine you for parking there, then they probably will do, and I'd suggest that if you don't want a fine, then you park somewhere else that's free.

[edit to add] since 2012 it has been illegal to clamp or tow vehicles from private land unless under certain special circumstances, however I can't find anything about private roads, only private land used for parking. No mention of fines changing in 2012, so I'd say they're perfectly within their rights.
Last edited by JRobinson on 8 Sep 2014 12:13, edited 1 time in total.

simono
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Location: Sydenham

Re: Are Hall Drive signs legal.

Post by simono » 8 Sep 2014 12:11

Hall Drive is private land and therefore normal highways rules do not apply. The changes in the law that took effect in October 2012 simply meant that the clamping of vehicles became illegal to prevent the abuse of some contractors and land owners. However a system of civil ticketing is allowed which is normally enforced by the same people that did the clamping. This different from the law as it is applied to the public highway and debt is pursued throguh the civil courts. However the companies are well resourced and will pursue people as this is their only source of income.

Eagle
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Joined: 7 Oct 2004 06:36
Location: F Hill

Re: Are Hall Drive signs legal.

Post by Eagle » 8 Sep 2014 12:16

Thanks

I did appreciate the road is unadopted.

Thanks for clarifying the situation regarding the new leglislation.

gerispringer
Posts: 145
Joined: 20 Jul 2009 10:58
Location: sydenham

Re: Are Hall Drive signs legal.

Post by gerispringer » 8 Sep 2014 16:58

[quote="Eagle"]Strolled down Sydenham's poshest road , or so the residents believe , on Sunday.

What evidence is there that "the residents believe HD to be the poshest road in Sydenham"? How many residents have you surveyed to reach this conclusion? The reverse snobbery displayed is breathtaking. There are believe it or not, other private roads nearby, other roads which have bigger houses, and other roads where the residents mostly take care of their surroundings. I am sorry if you assume this means that people who live there have delusions of grandeur. This is Sydenham remember, not Dulwich Village or Blackheath.The parking issue has been discussed before. Clamping is not allowed in HD though unenforceable ticketing is. I am not sure why those people who make snide remarks about others seem to enjoy walking down their road.

Eagle
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Joined: 7 Oct 2004 06:36
Location: F Hill

Re: Are Hall Drive signs legal.

Post by Eagle » 8 Sep 2014 17:05

Hello Gerry
I enjoyed your WDYTYA . One of the best.

OK may not be the best road in Sydenham . Not sure where is.

Unenforceable fines . Interesting .

It is indeed great to look after ones road and be proud of it . I agree.

Pally
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Joined: 2 Aug 2014 05:38
Location: Sydenham

Re: Are Hall Drive signs legal.

Post by Pally » 8 Sep 2014 17:07

Eagle wrote:Hello Gerry
I enjoyed your WDYTYA . One of the best.

OK may not be the best road in Sydenham . Not sure where is.

Unenforceable fines . Interesting .

It is indeed great to look after ones road and be proud of it . I agree.
What does WDYTYA mean?

gerispringer
Posts: 145
Joined: 20 Jul 2009 10:58
Location: sydenham

Re: Are Hall Drive signs legal.

Post by gerispringer » 8 Sep 2014 17:29

I assumed it meant Who Do You Think You Are? Which is quite a good interpretation of my post. I was trying to explain why I questioned the sweeping generalisation made by the OP

Pally
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Location: Sydenham

Re: Are Hall Drive signs legal.

Post by Pally » 8 Sep 2014 17:38

Oh yes that makes sense.

14BradfordRoad
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Joined: 8 Oct 2011 23:22
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow..

Re: Are Hall Drive signs legal.

Post by 14BradfordRoad » 10 Sep 2014 17:04

I wonder if it will be legal to put one across my drive then?

BTW: My road isn't particuarly posh, but collecting the £85 for doing little sounds great! :D

Eagle
Posts: 10658
Joined: 7 Oct 2004 06:36
Location: F Hill

Re: Are Hall Drive signs legal.

Post by Eagle » 10 Sep 2014 17:17

If it is legal for them , then should be for you.

I think the signs maybe to frighten people. However I am not a Lawyer.

mosy
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007 20:28
Location: London

Re: Are Hall Drive signs legal.

Post by mosy » 10 Sep 2014 17:25

Only £85? Bargain ;) Don't think it'd work though on a public highway:
The rule on driveways and forecourts used to be that you couldn't park across and block a car in, but if empty, then it reverted to being a public highway so that a driveway owner had no right to expect it to be clear to get back into his driveway. Not sure if that rule still applies.

I remember once accidentally parking across a public car park entrance (bad street lightlighting and we both thought how lucky we were to get a parking spot ) :lol: Came back to find that my car had been bumped around (so out of the way) into the middle of the road. Oops!

Eagle - I'm afraid you're wrong on all counts. They're valid on a private road. College Road also private (this side of the toll gate) introduced them a few years back. I noticed the signs only because I was waiting for someone. I got the impression that when first introduced the "fining attendant" would appear within seconds. What is often disputed through the courts is not the initial charge (unless signs are not displayed correctly, and assuming not trumped up, i.e. saying you exceeded allowed time-stay but can prove you didn't), it's the add-on escalated fees that get thrown out.

Eagle
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Joined: 7 Oct 2004 06:36
Location: F Hill

Re: Are Hall Drive signs legal.

Post by Eagle » 10 Sep 2014 18:35

Thanks Mosy and sorry for my mistake.

I am sure I have seen that they companies that used to control private parking and charging huge amounts have been curtailed.

But , as you say , this is an unadopted or private road.

mosy
Posts: 3935
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 20:28
Location: London

Re: Are Hall Drive signs legal.

Post by mosy » 10 Sep 2014 19:20

Curtailed is the operative word - i.e. a charge has to be reasonable since the claim is for civil "damage" - which doesn't run to hundreds in real terms (usually) for parking wrongly or staying too long.

EUSSR
Posts: 75
Joined: 16 May 2013 14:40

Re: Are Hall Drive signs legal.

Post by EUSSR » 12 Sep 2014 17:20


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