RebuildTheGreyhound - pub to be rebuilt by April 2015?

[parker]

Or you could push a button and make it into Putney high street which has lots of shops along its very long length but seems to have no soul other than people milling towards the station.

What a great idea Mosy it's better than what we've got at the moment.

[leenewham]

What's the point of having a hundred "posh shops" that you need a credit card to buy anything from but day-to-day needs have to be found elsewhere? That seems bonkers to me as a "vision".

I agree. It would be bonkers here. But no-one has said anything like that, no-one has stated that 'vision'. But 'posh shop' is almost as poorly used as 'vibrant high street' (which is, strangely, what many politicians use to describe shabby high streets).

I've even heard some people describe Nando's as Posh! I'd settle for 'shops that look proud of themselves and their community/environment'.

Sydenhamboy is spot on with his post.

[Pally]

What's the point of having a hundred "posh shops" that you need a credit card to buy anything from but day-to-day needs have to be found elsewhere? That seems bonkers to me as a "vision".

I agree. It would be bonkers here. But no-one has said anything like that, no-one has stated that 'vision'. But 'posh shop' is almost as poorly used as 'vibrant high street' (which is, strangely, what many politicians use to describe shabby high streets).

I've even heard some people describe Nando's as Posh! I'd settle for 'shops that look proud of themselves and their community/environment'.

Sydenhamboy is spot on with his post.

I agree Lee. Forest Hill is not all "posh" shops (pretty subjective description anyway, meaning different things to different people!) but there is a sense of some community join up in the developments there. Having said that there is a fair number of grubby shop fronts and awnings too! On that one, presumably cost is why they get left...I don't know figures but am guessing that cleaning awnings and frontages regularly is quite a bill.

[_HB]

Agreed, Rod. Northcote Road is a soulless hell hole, populated by dead eyed ugg boot wearing cretins on the arms of City Boy Simons and loud mouth antipodeans (sometimes both at the same time), visiting over priced chain stores and chintzy independents selling tat that no one needs. If ever anyone threatens to bring the spirit of Clapham Junction to Sydenham, sell up, get out of there!

[Pally]

When I moved to Sydenham around 35 years ago(!!) I remember that East Dulwich was a somewhat down at heel, mixed bag of shops with grubby frontages and certainly no "posh" like the delis, cafes there now or "posh" chains like the white company or Jo Maman Bebe or the quirky independents! So what happened I wonder? And is it better? I like East Dulwich because its a mixed bag ...maybe Sydenham needs a bit more mixing!

[_HB]

The trouble with Lordship Lane is that it is completely blighted by the through traffic. It's a really unpleasant environment to wander around in. And it's heading the same way as Clapham. High end chains and expensive independents with very little in the middle ground. Sydenham can do better than that.

[biscuitman1978]

As there are no "To let" boards outside the vacant outlets, I assume something is holding up the letting of them. I have a vague recollection that there were some council provisions whereby the Greyhound had to be finished first but now it is, so must be something else...

I'm a bit puzzled by your comment, as:
- The unit to the rear of the Greyhound is being fitted out at the moment as a Sainsbury's Local, so no 'to let' board is required there
- The other unit has two large 'to let' signs on it

[Parker1970]

As there are no "To let" boards outside the vacant outlets, I assume something is holding up the letting of them. I have a vague recollection that there were some council provisions whereby the Greyhound had to be finished first but now it is, so must be something else...

I'm a bit puzzled by your comment, as:
- The unit to the rear of the Greyhound is being fitted out at the moment as a Sainsbury's Local, so no 'to let' board is required there
- The other unit has two large 'to let' signs on it

Perhaps there is no exclusivity and they have made the unit available at more than one letting agent?

[biscuitman1978]

As there are no "To let" boards outside the vacant outlets, I assume something is holding up the letting of them. I have a vague recollection that there were some council provisions whereby the Greyhound had to be finished first but now it is, so must be something else...

I'm a bit puzzled by your comment, as:
- The unit to the rear of the Greyhound is being fitted out at the moment as a Sainsbury's Local, so no 'to let' board is required there
- The other unit has two large 'to let' signs on it

Perhaps there is no exclusivity and they have made the unit available at more than one letting agent?

They are indeed marketing the unit through two agents. My point was that mosy had suggested there are no 'to let' signs, but there are two!

[Parker1970]

They are indeed marketing the unit through two agents. My point was that mosy had suggested there are no 'to let' signs, but there are two!

Oh! Sorry lol.

[mosy]

Re signs, I must have missed those two big ones, despite their size, as I looked down the side thinking they were individual units. I see from Hindwood's spec that it is being offered as one big unit that can be split (which probably explains why both signs are confusingly only on one fascia board):
http://www.hindwoods.co.uk/property-sea ... n-se26-4qb
It just takes me a while to catch up...

Anyway, it is up for offer so I guess it'll be a few months before any negotiations complete.

[Eagle]

Must admit the Greyhound looked quite impressive in the sun this morning. Just a shame about the monstrous carbuncle surrounding it .

I hope they soon find a reputable brewer to take it on.

[FromCtoShiningC]

I agree Eagle - the building itself looks rather grand, and far more impressive than it was in it's last few years as a pub when its bricks were painted and the signage was poor quality in my view.

On a closely related topic, the Orb commercial premises across the road is under offer, so let's all hope we have some lovely new neighbours selling something rather nice to the great residents of this fine postcode of SE26.... onwards and upwards

[Pally]

The trouble with Lordship Lane is that it is completely blighted by the through traffic. It's a really unpleasant environment to wander around in. And it's heading the same way as Clapham. High end chains and expensive independents with very little in the middle ground. Sydenham can do better than that.

I'm not particularly suggesting Sydenham should go the same way. I'm interested in how that transformation took place though. Also I do think the "mixed bag" is a strength! When you say Sydenham can do better than that HB what sort of thing do you have in mind?

[monkeyarms]

I wouldn't describe Lordship Lane as a mixed bag. It's got a Picturehouse Cinema, an Oliver Bonas and loads of high-end butchers and delicatessens.I would say the vast majority of Lordship Lane caters towards middle-class/upper middle-class shoppers. Certainly the busiest part of it does. I mean, it still has a Co-Op, a few newsagents and probably still has a betting shop or two (though I can't actually picture any) but given how long Lordship Lane is, it's really quite astonishing just how many "boutiquey" shops there are: it says a hell of a lot about the demands and spending-power of local residents.

I do think Sydenham High Street will change, and will probably change very very suddenly and quickly. There will simply come a tipping-point where people will "discover" Sydenham, the same way they did Brixton, Nunhead and Brockley. if I had the spare cash and were an entrepreneurial type I would without a second's hesitation open a restaurant in Sydenham: it would be a license to print money.

[monkeyarms]

I'm interested in how that transformation took place though.

In the case of Lordship Lane it was quite gradual. (In the case of nearby Bellenden Road, however, it was stratospherically fast.)

I grew up in Herne Hill and we used to go to Lordship Lane a lot. We'd get curries from the Curry Cabin, I'd get my hair cut on one of the side streets. We'd go to Dulwich Music Shop after it moved there. Lordship Lane is I think a slightly different case to Sydenham High Street, in that Lordship Lane always had 9 or 10 "posh shops" and never struck me as having any shabby elements. It's more that the posh shops have proliferated as property and rental prices have risen in the area: more an expansion of what was already there than a complete transformation. A change in quantity not quality (the quality, as it were, was there to start with)

[stuart]

I do think Sydenham High Street will change, and will probably change very very suddenly and quickly. There will simply come a tipping-point where people will "discover" Sydenham, the same way they did Brixton, Nunhead and Brockley. if I had the spare cash and were an entrepreneurial type I would without a second's hesitation open a restaurant in Sydenham: it would be a license to print money.

I rather like our High Street. I do most of my shopping there or online and preferably collect locally. I don't really need Bromley, Oxford Street or East Dulwich - except it had an excellent mirror & glass shop - is it still there?

Sydenham Road is very much a mixed bag of useful shops and useless (for me). But there's the rub. The street is unlike many (thinking Croydon) almost fully occupied and most of the shops have been there for a very long time. So, given the rents/rates are quite high, they are profitable and hence serving some community need. Because Sydenham itself is a mixed bag demographically, diverse and all the better for it imho than the homogenised places around us divided into poor places the relatively well off would avoid and areas gentrified by decanting the poor out of sight and mind.

Do we really want that for Sydenham? It is important to provide and protect shops that serve others. Not let them get squeezed out.

That's why I think it arrogant to demand the shops/pubs/restaurants I like and trying to exclude the ones I don't. So welcome Inkwa Tattoos and shame on those that tried to stop them.

No, don't worry about the shops or The Greyhound. Leave that to he market. Those that remember the photo exhibition at Kirkdale Bookshop will not have forgotten that we have a rather delightful high street reminiscent of the old photos we get in Town Gallery. A hidden gem until you remove the two steel barriers of parked cars that litter the street impeding the view, the traffic and shoppers. Remove them except for the disabled and you would transform the street visually, be able to make spaces for buses, bikes and pedestrians. You know the people most likely to shop the hight street, keep it 'vibrant'.

Not the ones just dashing to the ATM who can't be bothered to use Girton Road Car Park.

Stuart

[monkeyarms]

Do we really want that for Sydenham? It is important to provide and protect shops that serve others. Not let them get squeezed out. .... No, don't worry about the shops or The Greyhound. Leave that to the market.

At the moment, you have no need to worry: the boutique delicatessens, chi-chi knick-knack and clothing stores, pulled-pork craft beer bars etc do not appear to be queuing up to rent retail space in Sydenham.

But I would be very surprised if, long-term, Sydenham were to be the one place in London that bucked the overall market trend. Everything you said about Sydenham could have been said about Brixton five years ago: a mix of shops that have all been there for decades, seemingly secure for ever in catering to the needs of an existing community. However, all it took was The London Knock-On Property Effect and boom – a locale that changed practically overnight (i.e. about 5 years), with most of those shops swept away.

[leenewham]

Lordship lane had a lot of empty shops and was rather shabby in the early 90's. Similar to Bellenden, local residents and businesses clubbed together to decide it's future, they keeps chains away and encouraged local businesses. Areas around there expanded as it became more desirable and the high street developed in league with the change in demographic.

A similar thing is happening with Peckham Rye, which was pretty rough in the early 90's again.

Kirkdale was rather lovely in the early 90's with lots of antique shops as I remember it, but I remember Crystal Palace being pretty ropey.

I remember talking to a student living in Sydenham who had never been to any shop in the high street in Sydenham because it looked run down, despite struggling financially. My neighbours who lived in social housing never went to Sydenham either. I remember him saying that 'he'd rather spend his money on something special as a treat' and that 'Sydenham used to be great, you could buy everything there'. I've heard many such stories since moving here 8 years ago from people of all income levels. People don't just for for the cheapest, they go for the best value that they can afford.

Sydenham wont change for a long time because there simply aren't many empty shops. Empty shops are the greatest driver of change in the shortest space of time in areas that still have period housing.

We do need a mix of shops in the high street, some more aspirational, some which cater for all pockets. Rents are rising, Sydenham is quite pricey for what it is, which over time will change things.

[mosy]

One or two observations. You still can buy almost anything along Sydenham Road. Of course someone wouldn't know that if they never actually went into any of the shops so they wouldn't know that a lot of local shopkeepers will also order things for you if they can, be it hardware (three shops I know of will), food/spices items, bookshop, healthfood shop, chemists. Several (at least half a dozen) shops are also now collection "drop off" points for various carriers re goods ordered online.

Disposable income is a necessity if higher end shops are to survive. High rent, mortgage deposits and repayments reduce the pound in one's pocket. Acknowledging also the mantra that the middle classes are being squeezed, higher housing prices don't necessarily equate to more disposable income.

Incidentally, I like the decision to have 30-min parking bays as it's instinctive I think to use the full 30 mins for misc pop-in shopping. They also make it easier to jaywalk across two rather than four lanes of traffic given the half hour wait for the ped. lights at the post office to change...