SEE3 Financial Accounts

The place for serious discussion, announcements and breaking news about Sydenham

Moderator: frenzarin

Joanne
Posts: 97
Joined: 3 Oct 2014 18:11
Location: United Kingdom

SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by Joanne » 9 Dec 2014 00:38

Apologies for posting so late.

Here are SEE3 accounts and I truly was not prepared to read just how much money has been spent to achieve nothing sustainable. Basically nothing.

Total Income & Expenditure both equal = £ 235,965

http://www.see3.co.uk/2014/11/statement-of-accounts/

When has any business accounts balanced out to the exact penny?

Most important:

SEE3’s management of public money is a total disgrace.

And they submit further bids.

SAF are involved too - so no doubt we will all need to expect more about the War yet again.

We have the figures – it is justified for me to state that they are clueless.

This is about how they spent ‘our’ money developing the high street.

Now they think an animal safari costing thousands will help matters.

This is getting ridiculous.

biscuitman1978
Posts: 1587
Joined: 16 May 2006 20:14
Location: Chislehurst; previously Sydenham

SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by biscuitman1978 » 9 Dec 2014 01:14

Wow! You really have an axe to grind for some reason.

I'm not involved with SEE3 and I dare say there are things the organisation could do better. But I must take issue with a couple of the points you make:
Joanne wrote:When has any business accounts balanced out to the exact penny?
Read the accounts carefully. The surplus of £10,399 is carried forward to the next period.
Joanne wrote:...we will all need to expect more about the War yet again.
What was so wrong about a (very well received) piece of theatre held in the year that marks the centenary of the beginning of the First World War, held as part of a fantastic arts festival that has really put Sydenham on the map?
Joanne wrote:We have the figures – it is justified for me to state that they are clueless.
I assume you mean that the people running SEE3 are 'clueless' rather than the figures themselves. But in any case I don't see how you can draw that conclusion based on the figures alone. You need to drill down a bit more than that.

Joanne
Posts: 97
Joined: 3 Oct 2014 18:11
Location: United Kingdom

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by Joanne » 9 Dec 2014 12:32

I will try to explain my thoughts in more detail shortly. Currently a bit busy.

But in brief my concerns relate to amount of money allocated to Shop Revolution and Community Hubs.

Re: Pop Ups - just to provide an example, our average set up costs are less than £1K per shop, thats refurb and signage, everything basically excluding rent.

Community Hub in Sydenham (Jack/ Jill) I can't remember which - a lot of money spent then no sooner had it opened got closed down

whittler
Posts: 28
Joined: 15 May 2012 09:06
Location: United Kingdom

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by whittler » 9 Dec 2014 12:46

Yawn, nice try but really, don't bother, biscuitman, it's all just too boring. Here is a person who seems to be so shockingly bitter and damaged by the fact that she got pipped to a job that she really can't hold back the bile and vitriol. I'm glad to see that no-one from SEE3 has bothered to reply and nor should they waste their time and energy doing so. I'm surprised that Admin hasn't blocked posts from this individual or at least advised them of the appropriateness of the tone of their comments, as they seem to be nothing but personally vindictive and baseless carp most of the time.

If those grapes weren't so sour, you could probably make decent wine out of 'em.

Joanne
Posts: 97
Joined: 3 Oct 2014 18:11
Location: United Kingdom

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by Joanne » 9 Dec 2014 14:37

What on earth have I got to feel bitter about?

We are running successful projects which generate a high turnover.

I have pointed out the huge expenditures in SE26 - which are based on lack of experience and errors of judgement.

That is a sore reality.

And could easily be repeated and that is why I am posting.

leenewham
Posts: 5886
Joined: 2 Sep 2007 11:58
Location: SYDENHAM
Contact:

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by leenewham » 9 Dec 2014 16:06

Joanne has run some nice pop up art galleries in Belgravia and Dulwich Village. I've been to some, the art on view was very nice. A bit out of my price range, but some bits I really liked and would have loved to have owned.

The spaces look great too, they appear to be in really nice shops with nice shops fronts with nice simple type as vinyls on the glass, which is cheap and easy to do, the interiors are repainted and look smart.

Joanne should be applauded for curating and creating really nice art galleries in really nice places. I'd love something of that quality for Sydenham, but I don't think it's right for the area. The Lovely Gallery is nice and holds lots of workshops and these often seem very popular. If we had another gallery, using an empty space near another gallery makes complete sense, and Joanne, there is an empty unit not far from there. I'm sure you could make a go at it. as I'm sure Joanne knows, grouping like minded business together makes a lot of sense and is proven as a strategy.

Better to lead by example than waste time posting here, which won't make any difference.

I'd love to see Joanne bring something of the quality that was in the pub in Dulwich Village to Sydenham. Art is a big part of Sydenham with the arts festival, it could feature of the artists trail, Joanne often tweets pictures of street art around london (I like the Berlin Wall example you tweeted especially Joanne) so I'm sure she will support (at least in principle if not in every case) the street art and other art interventions in Sydenham which are or have already happened.

whittler
Posts: 28
Joined: 15 May 2012 09:06
Location: United Kingdom

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by whittler » 9 Dec 2014 18:21

What on earth have I got to feel bitter about?
Answer: Someone else got a job that you wanted (running the Portas Pilot pop-ups) and you can't move on.

Lee is right, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and come and do something in Sydenham, otherwise, keep your concerns to yourself.

The spitefulness of your posts is quite overwhelming, especially when the spite is being directed at people who ARE making an effort, putting their time in, doing things that a lot of people agree are successful and have improved the offer in the area, and more importantly they are taking the sort of risks in Sydenham that you apparently think you're too good to take here (why exactly?) - it's tiresome.

Personally, i think the proposals going forward look interesting - especially the one with V22 for Dartmouth Rd, and i wish SEE3 good luck in their forthcoming bids. They deserve it and from what i've seen so far, i'm sure it will add something positive to the mix as opposed to the oppressive negativity of yet another barrow load of mud slinging and unfounded accusations from you on this forum.

Really. Think very hard before you post, Joanne.

That's all i have to say.

Joanne
Posts: 97
Joined: 3 Oct 2014 18:11
Location: United Kingdom

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by Joanne » 9 Dec 2014 20:27

I did suggest to SEE3 that I could to set up a Pop Up Gallery in SE26 after we weren’t successful obtaining the Portas Pilot.

But they had their own plans.

Therefore moving on is exactly what we did do.

Later I seriously considered opening a Pop Up Gallery on the High St independent of SEE3 but decided against because to be honest was not inspired by what was going on here. In my opinion a fantastic window of opportunity with huge funding was being dwindled and it had an air of failure about it.

I’m certainly not the only local business person who watched and decided against opening here for reasons stated above.

Three years on roughly I don’t think it is viable for us to consider opening up in SE26. The Pop Up side of the business has by default really been developed now to reflect our locations.

We couldn’t sell our current collection of artwork here.

Just so you are aware my main business is art consultancy and this is high end. Artwork I choose therefore reflects that.

So perhaps you can see opening here for us is no longer an option. More to do with time and resources because we’d need to develop a whole different strategy and ‘product’.

However I’m very happy to advise on and/or contribute to a SE26 arts based project if I thought it was heading in the right direction and would be delivered in a smart way.

leenewham
Posts: 5886
Joined: 2 Sep 2007 11:58
Location: SYDENHAM
Contact:

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by leenewham » 9 Dec 2014 20:35

Well, perhaps it's time to reconsider Joanne.

When the portas pilot started there was no art gallery in lower sydenham. There is now.

There was no bistro or nicer places to eat which attracts different people into the high street. There is now.

Of course sydenham isn't and never will be belgravia or dulwich village like your other galleries were, but are we now worth a try?

whittler
Posts: 28
Joined: 15 May 2012 09:06
Location: United Kingdom

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by whittler » 10 Dec 2014 10:15

Actually, i think i will say some more...
I did suggest to SEE3 that I could to set up a Pop Up Gallery in SE26 after we weren’t successful obtaining the Portas Pilot.

But they had their own plans.
Why would the fact that 'they had their own plans' stop you? You strike me as having the skin of a rhino and a lot of determination but you just bottled it at that point, because of what exactly? If it had been me and i was as bullish as you (apparently) are i think i would have said: 's*d 'em, i'll set my own thing up without their help and really show 'em how it's done' and maybe capitalised on the situation for my own benefit. Dunno, just seems like the sort of thing a high end, focussed, dynamic business person with such amazing acumen and consummate creative skills like you would have done.

By 'moving on' i don't mean physically, geographically, from SE26 to SW1 i mean MENTALLY, IN YOUR HEAD. MOVE ON.

Why do you think you've been given a mandate on behalf of the good people of Sydenham to uncover and expose the (non-existent) squandering and abuse of public funds by SEE3 and the (also non-existent) failure and incompetency at its heart? Actually, please don't answer that.
Really. Don't answer.

Actually, now i think about it, i don't know why i'm bothering, having told biscuitman not to earlier, it's just a vortex you get slowly sucked into, trying to stop the endless torrent of drivelling nonsense that seems to keep issuing forth....oh lord i think i've lost the will to live.

PUT UP, SHUT UP....or POP-UP - those are your options, Joanne.

Joanne
Posts: 97
Joined: 3 Oct 2014 18:11
Location: United Kingdom

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by Joanne » 10 Dec 2014 12:28

What did I bottle?

Using my own money decided to refurb a huge space in Dulwich Village (now Gail's Bakery) and open a Pop Up Gallery.

Next refurb'ed huge space above The Crown & Greyhound to Pop Up there and so it continues.

Along the way forming long lasting working Partnerships with local businesses, charities, Social Enterprises - so establishing roots as well to ensure longevity.

Whittler you are getting yourself very upset, letting me rattle you- you'll get ill at this rate.

You must stay happy and well - it's Christmas!

Joanne
Posts: 97
Joined: 3 Oct 2014 18:11
Location: United Kingdom

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by Joanne » 10 Dec 2014 13:18

And Whittler...

If it was in my nature to bottle it...surely I wouldn't be paying equivalent to a years retail rent in SE26 for just 2 months in our current location?

sugahill cafe
Posts: 165
Joined: 29 Nov 2007 23:13
Location: sydenham

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by sugahill cafe » 10 Dec 2014 17:04

£75,000 spent on business support projects. What were the 'Business support projects' ?

Joanne
Posts: 97
Joined: 3 Oct 2014 18:11
Location: United Kingdom

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by Joanne » 11 Dec 2014 00:18

It’s currently a very busy period for me therefore don’t have the time to go into detail.

I will though ignore venomous attacks from Whittler who clearly has not done his/her research and writes with a very nasty tone indeed.

If anyone on this forum thinks that my posts are due to sour grapes then they are short sighted and small minded.

And wholly disagree with Whittler’s suggestion that I should take a ‘sod them’ approach and ‘show them how it’s done’. His/her whole tone, their attitude is in fact deplorable.

I believe that there is a serious problem and this is what I’m trying to highlight – however loyal anyone wants to be to SEE3 – they have lacked accountability throughout and spent a vast amount of public money with nothing to show.

And the same core group are bidding for more money and asking for our support.

This is pure incompetency.

I’m strongly inclined to think that this should be escalated, so will make enquiries.

The SEE3 financial accounts are alarming.

louisecbrooks
Posts: 174
Joined: 9 Sep 2010 09:16

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by louisecbrooks » 11 Dec 2014 09:10

Chris, can I suggest you drop the SEE3 directors an email asking them for a breakdown of what that business support entailed. I know there were workshops, and a mentoring scheme but there was very little take up from Sydenham traders. There were some other things but I don't know much more than that because I wasn't involved in that side of things. I'll PM you.

Joanne, I know I am going to regret addressing you because you seem hell bent on finding fault whatever you are told, but here goes. What is expressed on that page is top line. You cannot possibly draw the conclusions that you seem to be drawing based on that information, so your accusations are once again foundless. In terms of what has been achieved you have been told repeatedly what the objectives of the pilot scheme were, and they were not what you often claim that they were.

I will address the pop up shop scheme, which you have specific interest in. The aim was to bring empty shops back into use by more diverse businesses which has happened in the majority of cases (as well as providing businesses with an opportunity to trial their proposition on the high street, and to attract footfall - hence the festivals and events we ran as part of the scheme such as Forest Hill Fashion Week, supper clubs, street art festival etc). This involved many shops that had been empty for years. A lick of paint for under £1k wasn't going to suffice. The properties needed to be made safe which often meant rewiring or extensive electrical work to ensure electrical safety certificates were issued. Expenses also included business rates and utilities which were not free, although we did negotiate rent free agreements with landlords. We did not spend a fortune on signage I can tell you that. Many people worked at reduced rates or volunteered their time because they saw the project as being for the benefit of the community.

You will note that there is a line on the accounts for income - this was largely, if not completely from the pop up scheme, and was from rent (to cover costs of rates and utilities) and income from events (from advertising, sponsorship etc) that ensured that events we ran were cost neutral.

The work on the shops meant that businesses who later came in to take on the spaces (businesses that I often worked with to help them secure the properties on favourable terms) didn't discount them because of the extensive amount of work required.

Jill was never supposed to be long term. It was only supposed to run for 6 months and I think it went over that. Again one of the objectives was to bring the space back into long term use which has happened with the welcome addition of Cherry and Ice. Part of the aims were to investigate the opportunity of running a community hub long term but the findings were that it wasn’t sustainable because the costs outweighed the income.

Feel free to escalate your enquiries. You will find that everything is above board, and that this group of volunteers has done what they can to deliver an effective scheme to the best of their abilities. In comparison to other pop up schemes I can tell you that we spent far less, and saved far more money than comparative schemes across the country. I do know this because I did do my research and have networked extensively with other schemes.

Now I have spoken specifically about the pop up shop scheme (and what I know about Jill) because that is what I know most about, but work in other areas has similar justification and there were an amazing number of achievements which are being built on as SEE3 develops.

I'm not going to say any more on the matter at this time but again felt the need to defend foundless accusations.

Chris Best
Posts: 418
Joined: 6 May 2005 11:37
Location: Sydenham

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by Chris Best » 12 Dec 2014 10:10

As the Chair and Director I will respond because it is public money and I am happy to provide a further account of the expenditure. I will start with the bid and the budget - we received £80k from the GLA matched by £100k from Lewisham (planning gain funds from the Bell Green development) and we also received £15k from the High Street improvement fund. London Borough of Lewisham was the accountable body.

The headings are set out in the statement of accounts and for each of the projects we employed a consultant - Town Team Manager, Community Hub Coordinator, Market Maker, Pop Up Shop organiser, Artist in Residence and Jack-in-the-box consultant to deliver on the projects. We have a written report from each of the consultants setting out the achievements of the pilot, lessons learnt and future actions. Yes there were areas that we could have done differently but the timeframe from the GLA was to complete the pilot by the end of March 2014.

Chris asks about the £75k - the budget breakdown for this was £30k for the Town Team Manager (Tony Buckley who worked on the project from December 2012 to March 2014); Signage for the three areas £20k; Shop Local including the production of the SEE3 Christmas calendars and flyers £12k and business support including workshops and advice £10k. The budget has been allocated but some of the initiatives are still work in progress including the signage in Forest Hill and the rest of Sydenham. Tony spent a lot of shoe leather trying to engage the traders and we did have some support with more traders thinking about their shop windows and initiatives to support. Our Sydenham Halloween this year had some 40 traders taking part in the core of the high street. There were more activities in Forest Hill including engaging with local schools to provide artistic pumpkins for the shop windows.

Christmas sees a number of traders putting on free events – tomorrow, Saturday 13th December, in Sydenham we have Kirkdale Bookshop offering Christmas Storytime and Pop up poetry, Whites Pet Centre have exotic pets petting. Here For Good have a Community Nativity Display and we have our Sydenham Market with craft workshops and a Community Concert in The Sydenham Centre. All this is designed to bring more footfall to the high street. Why not come and give us a hand in talking up the programme and see the difference in the high street.

Joanne
Posts: 97
Joined: 3 Oct 2014 18:11
Location: United Kingdom

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by Joanne » 12 Dec 2014 13:07

Just to remind again here’s a link to the Portas Pilot principles.

http://www.maryportas.com/portaspilots/mary-portas/

And a key problem possibly is that SEE3 have chosen to interpret the principles in their own way. So we were off to a rocky start.

I’d like to raise these questions please:

- Why £20K on signage? Lee has already told us this was off the shelf. That’s a massive expenditure for temporary benefit too.

- £12K for a Christmas calendar and flyers? How come this much? That’s way off the scale.

- £10K business support and workshops – what did you do? Who benefitted from this and why? If so can we hear from these people?

I feel as if we are paying huge consultancy fees.

Tony Buckley I hear put huge effort in but it sounds as if he was also unable to get existing traders on board. Why I’m not sure. If there is allocated money to improve existing signage and window frontage then traders would jump at the chance.
Put in place one of Lee’s ‘What If’ projects? I regret dismissing this initiative really because I’m beginning to like his idea more and more and could truly serve as a showcase. Traders should be queuing up for the service! I know that I would now.

Re: SEE3 offering business advice and facilitating Pop Ups.

I don’t understand why they think that they can do that – the core team do not have retail experience. Nor experience in running related projects.

Here is the problem I think. They have not followed the principles set out clearly for them.

Due to lack of experience and not having the skills themselves have outsourced help which is expensive and reduces control.
There is a major quality control issue throughout.

They think that they know best – for example the market – when there are in fact a number of very successful models which they could follow. They could for example put together a proposal here:

http://www.lfm.org.uk/

Sydenham needs smartening up. I rarely shop, have coffee or eat here because although there are a few interesting places, I’ll tend to go where I can enjoy the overall experience.

What next? In the immediate term, I understand there is around £10K being carried forward. I believe it would be wise to commission Lee to create one of his ‘What If’ projects.

This needs to be on the main High Street currently, so not towards Lower Sydenham at the moment.

There is still a lot of money left to create something quite significant. My view would be to take one of the empty shops, again central and do something there.

Based on local consumer needs, it’s a diverse demographic, so nothing too niche. We don’t need to offer coffee etc. It needs to add value and not compete with neighbours.

Sorry to use the word showcase again, but it could be just that – a place for local makers, designers, artists to sell their work. A gallery feel with group or solo shows too at regular intervals.

Perhaps Jill/ Jack intended to do just that. But it comes back to quality and choices.

We need to create a shop here which has a contemporary feel and has a discerning, much more careful selection of products.

The Market too – a selection process is required.

Re: Animal safari bid

I’m very keen on public art.

Michael has taken the time to explain the rationale here, how this may help link up other initiatives locally with the core aim to increase footfall to SE26.

But there is something to me which feels back to front or cack handed about the approach.

We need to first create reasons for the local consumer to stay on the high street and to create reasons to attract from further afield.

Sculptures won’t do that, these will only serve to add to the overall aesthetic experience if done well (!), but certainly do not come first.

Supper clubs, workshops, theatre, Halloween, Easter, Fashion Shows all have the potential to add as well but should not be the focal point.

Creating a foundation is.

demeaux
Posts: 21
Joined: 7 Jul 2014 09:53
Location: Wells Park

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by demeaux » 12 Dec 2014 13:20

Oh dear. This is fun.

leenewham
Posts: 5886
Joined: 2 Sep 2007 11:58
Location: SYDENHAM
Contact:

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by leenewham » 12 Dec 2014 13:52

I was thinking the same thing Demeux!

Ok, I want to get something straight:

Joanne has misquoted me, so I'd like to clarify. For the Jill hub ONLY the letters that spelt the word Jill and the number 27 were bought off the shelf (the original idea was to get second hand letters while they could have sold afterwards and got their money back, but we couldn't find the letters to the correct size). So I sourced the letters new. That's why the jill and Jack hubs looked the say they did (the '27' is still on the Cherry & Ice sign). Local people made and put up the background sign of the sign, sorted out the electrics, painted the shop and made it ready for the pop up and future tenants. It was a huge effort and congratulations should be offered to all involved.

I don't think the 20k signage isn't anything to do with this anyway, but don't quote me on it. ;-)

I don't know about the pop ups I wasn't involved in that and I'm not involved with see3 any more. But I value the huge effort a lot of local people put into making it happen, which I'm sure you also applaud Joanne.

I'm glad you like the What if Project now Joanne, You liked it before (You said "I think the What If concept is a great initiative"), then decided you didn't and said "I'm not going to sit around wasting my time doing 'What If' projects - which any one with half a brain can do on Photoshop. It is quite simply boring", which was, frankly, extremely rude.

So I'm glad you are feeling more positive now and I take your comment as a sort of apology, so thank you and I'm genuinely flattered by the positive words you say about it in your latest post.

But it's actually hard to get shops to take it up, even when it's free. Infact, it's actually hard to get a shop to do it even when the signage is paid for 100%. Many shops just don't care about how they look. It's not important to them. They are more worried about losing trade by having signage installed! Most of the time I find they want a boring new aluminium shop front, even if the one that have is perfectly fine.

What if Sydenham was about making the most of what a shop already has, but that ship has now sailed for Sydenham.

I won't comment on anything else you have said Joanne, I'm sure others will, I hope the above is fair.

Joanne
Posts: 97
Joined: 3 Oct 2014 18:11
Location: United Kingdom

Re: SEE3 Financial Accounts

Post by Joanne » 12 Dec 2014 16:22

How have I mis-quoted you Lee? I have just described what you have posted here and your personal messages to me.

You are now saying that you thought your numbers and letters may have a re sale value. What’s the provenance? SE26 Town Team?

And you want to explain the ins and outs of your signage. It is one component and that’s it.

There is no complicated design process – it just needs to get done.

There is a lot of naivety going on.

I can help and would like to do so but certainly not when I meet nastiness and small mindedness on this forum.

Other threads have this tone too.

Whittler is aggressive and I really did not appreciate his approach.

I hope that I have come across okay today.

Post Reply