Windmill Victory

The place for serious discussion, announcements and breaking news about Sydenham

Moderator: frenzarin

SteveG85
Posts: 39
Joined: 26 Aug 2014 16:41
Location: SE26

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by SteveG85 » 27 Jul 2017 08:05

Ideas about hotels, B&Bs, multi-storey pubs and roof terraces on Kirkdale all sound good but I think the plans approved by the planning committee are more likely to succeed and appeal to a business owner. I'm sure the residential units will be snapped up.

Mary as a member of the Sydenham Society planning committee can you let us know whether the Society plans to appeal the decision on behalf of the community or take any other action that might delay the development?

Eagle
Posts: 10658
Joined: 7 Oct 2004 06:36
Location: F Hill

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by Eagle » 30 Jul 2017 10:48

Sydeham should be able to support more Pubs not less. We have lost The Duke of Edinburgh , The Talma and The Woodman in that small area .

I believe only have Fox and Hounds and Brick left .

Of course it should be a Pub or Pub / Cafe .

parker
Posts: 552
Joined: 26 Mar 2009 21:15
Location: Sydenham Wells

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by parker » 30 Jul 2017 11:37

SteveG85 wrote:Ideas about hotels, B&Bs, multi-storey pubs and roof terraces on Kirkdale all sound good but I think the plans approved by the planning committee are more likely to succeed and appeal to a business owner. I'm sure the residential units will be snapped up.

Mary as a member of the Sydenham Society planning committee can you let us know whether the Society plans to appeal the decision on behalf of the community or take any other action that might delay the development?
I think the Sydenham Society should delay it until a mini branch of Harrods wants to open there.

Pally
Posts: 1454
Joined: 2 Aug 2014 05:38
Location: Sydenham

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by Pally » 30 Jul 2017 15:54

Eagle wrote:Sydeham should be able to support more Pubs not less. We have lost The Duke of Edinburgh , The Talma and The Woodman in that small area .

I believe only have Fox and Hounds and Brick left .

Of course it should be a Pub or Pub / Cafe .
Why should Sydenham be able to support more pubs?

Eagle
Posts: 10658
Joined: 7 Oct 2004 06:36
Location: F Hill

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by Eagle » 30 Jul 2017 17:24

Because in the past it supported many more.

EUSSR
Posts: 70
Joined: 16 May 2013 14:40

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by EUSSR » 30 Jul 2017 18:37

Why are you so obsessed about having more pubs ?...you live in the past

D-W
Posts: 6
Joined: 15 Oct 2015 08:04
Location: Sydenham

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by D-W » 30 Jul 2017 19:05

Link to an interesting article on the declining number of pubs in London. Looks like this isn't just a local phenomenon.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphic ... ly-chart-4

rod taylor
Posts: 3842
Joined: 24 Jul 2011 22:32
Location: on the road

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by rod taylor » 30 Jul 2017 20:13

D-W wrote:Link to an interesting article on the declining number of pubs in London. Looks like this isn't just a local phenomenon.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphic ... ly-chart-4
It's interesting. Also interesting that for years now I've listened to people saying, almost without giving it any thought, that immigration isn't going to change the British way of life. Well the decline in pubs is partly attributable to a change in demographics. In addition, there is no clear replacement for pubs that I can see which also happens to bring local people together.

Of course if you're not a fan of pubs, or a non-drinker on religious grounds, then I'd anticipate a shrug.

mosy
Posts: 3777
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 20:28
Location: London

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by mosy » 30 Jul 2017 21:24

Interesting article - thanks D-W. I wonder about the cost of pub beer, especially if relying on daily or at least regular customers for more than one pint each per visit. Maybe compounded by expensive subscription TV cutting into beer money and not forgetting cheaper supermarket booze. Escalating duty/tax/VAT doesn't help either.

Article here about pub beer sales down 2.9%:
http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Drin ... ed-by-BBPA

Pally
Posts: 1454
Joined: 2 Aug 2014 05:38
Location: Sydenham

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by Pally » 31 Jul 2017 07:49

Eagle wrote:Because in the past it supported many more.
But its supporting other social things now ...Cafes etc. Life changes

Pally
Posts: 1454
Joined: 2 Aug 2014 05:38
Location: Sydenham

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by Pally » 31 Jul 2017 07:52

rod taylor wrote:
D-W wrote:Link to an interesting article on the declining number of pubs in London. Looks like this isn't just a local phenomenon.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphic ... ly-chart-4
It's interesting. Also interesting that for years now I've listened to people saying, almost without giving it any thought, that immigration isn't going to change the British way of life. Well the decline in pubs is partly attributable to a change in demographics. In addition, there is no clear replacement for pubs that I can see which also happens to bring local people together.

Of course if you're not a fan of pubs, or a non-drinker on religious grounds, then I'd anticipate a shrug.
I like pubs; I drink; I am non religious. But society changes, people's preferences differ and I think other things can bring community together as well as pubs!

leenewham
Posts: 5886
Joined: 2 Sep 2007 11:58
Location: SYDENHAM
Contact:

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by leenewham » 31 Jul 2017 08:58

The Woodsman is now a cafe, I agree. Places like on the Hoof have great music nights. Many local businesses and cafes are involved with the Arts Festival. The Alexandra Nurseries is a great community space and I've enjoyed talking with other people there who I've never met before. The same with the Bluebell Cafe in Penge, one of the best social hubs I've ever been to, or Sugahill, or many others, like the great cafe in Mayow.

I like pubs too, but I don't think they are the only means of casting your social net to a wider audience. Pubs have always closed or changed hands. New bars are opening in other areas and while rents and prices rise, I'm sure than many pubs and other similar businesses will change. If anything, I find it easier to chat to people in cafes than pubs.

Why not classify them as social spaces? Perhaps we need to shake up planning with a special category to allow more flexibility, so pubs can become cafes etc as long as the bar remains, so in the future it can turn back into a pub.

rod taylor
Posts: 3842
Joined: 24 Jul 2011 22:32
Location: on the road

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by rod taylor » 31 Jul 2017 12:49

leenewham wrote:
Why not classify them as social spaces? Perhaps we need to shake up planning with a special category to allow more flexibility, so pubs can become cafes etc as long as the bar remains, so in the future it can turn back into a pub.
That's a very good idea. It shouldn't be hard to regulate for this.

appletree
Posts: 94
Joined: 30 Jun 2015 09:40
Location: Sydenham

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by appletree » 31 Jul 2017 22:55

I consider pubs to be mainly male spaces and therefore, as a woman, would prefer less stress on pubs when there are so many.

I would not go to a pub by myself but would go to a café or similar space.

rod taylor
Posts: 3842
Joined: 24 Jul 2011 22:32
Location: on the road

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by rod taylor » 1 Aug 2017 08:49

appletree wrote:I consider pubs to be mainly male spaces and therefore, as a woman, would prefer less stress on pubs when there are so many.

I would not go to a pub by myself but would go to a café or similar space.

I get that - my wife reports similar and is reticent about sitting alone in pubs for too long.

But in a way this illustrates my point. You prefer cafes precisely because it is less acceptable for people to mingle. I completely understand your reasons but at the same time we seem to be curating a public space in which we reduce interaction with anyone other than the initiated.

So, for example, there's a scheme in which if you are in a priority seat on public transport someone can come up to you and hold up a specific sign with a P on it. This was explained as allowing the disadvantaged to demand their seat without the inconvenience of having to ask for it.

We already have a situation in which millenials only go on dates they have arranged on the internet. This was described as a triumph by a talking head on the TV the other day - saying it had freed people from the tyranny of being propositioned in public.

I don't dispute this - but it does seem, ultimately a form of apartheid - I talk to whom I want to talk. We have to be very careful that in a Facebook world of multi-culture, we aren't just stuck in small bubbles. There is evidence that this is happening.

Eagle
Posts: 10658
Joined: 7 Oct 2004 06:36
Location: F Hill

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by Eagle » 1 Aug 2017 09:20

Pubs a great way for the community to meet.

There are far less pubs in Kirkdale area than in 70's or 30 's.

JRobinson
Posts: 1102
Joined: 5 Jan 2010 12:40
Location: De Frene Rd

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by JRobinson » 3 Aug 2017 12:21

people now have more choice in their alcohol consumption - by that I mean that there are now many more small craft breweries, and home brew is also a large factor - if a pub is tied to one supplier, as many are, then they'll only be selling what the supplier lets them, and if that is two types of sh1tty lager, and one ale, then a lot of people won't go there. If the pub isn't tied, then they might be able to sell many more different ales on tap, and bottles, thus getting a more diverse clientele.

appletree
Posts: 94
Joined: 30 Jun 2015 09:40
Location: Sydenham

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by appletree » 23 Nov 2017 20:17

I see work is beginning on the old Windmill -- scaffolding is up.

rustya
Posts: 54
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 14:18

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by rustya » 1 Dec 2017 16:26

any updates re the Old Windmill ?

rustya
Posts: 54
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 14:18

Re: Windmill Victory

Post by rustya » 12 Dec 2017 23:43

Any updates on this topic ?

Post Reply