Another violent incident on Sydenham high street

[Alfred Adler]

This time a shopkeeper beaten up by a gang of thugs stealing from his shop. Anyone know more?

[Eagle]

What the hell is going on . Very very sad.

Very depressing.

[Alfred Adler]

Lewisham Police Twitter account posted this 5 hours ago: #ResponseTeamC are currently dealing in Sydenham Road, SE26 - For information, this IS NOT related to last week's incident #SgtTaylor
....
I was told it was a shopkeeper next to Billings who had a phone stolen but then was set upon and it all ended up on the street. Ambulance took him away soon after. Lovely.

[Bunty]

I agree Eagle, what's happening? I have lived here for over 10 years, brought my daughter up here. Never known such a spate of violence. Very sad.

[P1971]

This is so sad, happy to help in any way I can with both whats going on and how to try and make youngsters aware of their actions if possible. All ideas how we can help as a community to stop this are very welcome

I'm just about to post a thread about a music event which now seems useless in the line of things, I just really hope we can help the youngsters understand what life is about in a normal sense to most of us!

[somerandombloke]

Never known such a spate of violence. Very sad.

A spate? Shit i thought there was just teh two insidents I been away a few days whats been going on??????

[Nigel]

SRB
If you are being sarcastic then please disregard , otherwise :
Fatal utterly senseless stabbing .
Attempted robbery at bank - where a gun was pointed at staff and customers .
Robbery from a shop where the owner was viscously beaten , presumably for having the temerity to resist having his property stolen by worthless morons .

A spate

A very good morning
Nigel

[Eagle]

Well written Nigel.

I am not sure sarcasm is the best medium in these cases anyway.

Alfred comments about the loud noise yesterday outside the Coop and the Police standing by doing nothing very worrying.

[leenewham]

Sad news. I hope the shop owner's ok.

How can we stop this from happening?

Making areas smarter, cleaner and more proud of itself helps (I'm a big believer in 'broken window theory').

In other areas there have been systems where shop owners have a 'quick reaction' buttons and radio to communicate to one another about any issues, shop lifting etc that is also linked to local SNP's (I don't know the details).

Any other ideas?

[_HB]

Lee - Have you read Stephen Dubner's (from Freakonomics) takedown of the 'broken windows' theory? I agree with the principle but the data behind the idea that the policy is effective is dubious at best. Worth a read but the essential point is that the legalisation of abortion in America (Roe vs Wade) is what actually brought the crime levels down and Giuliani was just a lucky beneficiary.

So........ er....., more abortions in Lewisham is my idea.

[leenewham]

I don't think any one action solves every problem in isolation. But I do think they make a difference.

Broken windows does lead to more broken windows, tagging leads to more tagging, litter leads to more litter. Put an empty coke can on a windowsill and it will be joined by others.

The less people care about an area, object, or thing, generally the more anti-social behaviour it has. But Roe vrs Wade is also true and part of the picture.

[_HB]

The less people care about an area, object, or thing, generally the more anti-social behaviour it has.

Absolutely. And from the "Station Approach Toilet" thread it seems that not even the people elected to run the Borough care about the area. I think a great deal of the responsibility/blame for these issues needs to lie with people of power and authority.

What are Lewisham doing to tackle anti-social behaviour? I know what the Met will be doing; pulling over and stopping more young, black people than usual this weekend.

[leenewham]

Stop and search may stop a crime but it makes more resentment, which makes more anger, which makes more criminals.

I'm not sure I put the blame at local authorities. I think it's far more widespread, from parents, schools, mentors, government, culture.

I believe lots of young people get into trouble because of the company they keep. That company becomes family, the mentor, the people to look up to. That company makes anti social behaviour in all it's forms, normal.

Making things that others think as bad 'normal' makes them easier to do.

I'm not sure how to solve this. I believe one link to solving it is to legalise all drugs and license/regulate the hell out of them. Breaking the licence should be zero tolerance.

I also believe it's to do with education and schools and how we teach.

Prisons are anoter link.

So is housing.

So is culture and involvement and inclusion.

A few years ago I was invited to tender for shop fronts in Croydon for a huge contract. I said they were wasting their money, that the riots the year before where many shops in the area were targeted was more to do with people feeling unconnected with the places they live. I suggested they get mentors involved, artists etc and 'adopt' a roller shutter. Each shutter would be designed and installed via mentors using a series of techniques, from traditional sign writing to spraycan art. This would give young people ownership over their own creation and bring a sense of pride back into the area. It would create an outdoor art gallery of local art. It would set a precedent. It would be cheaper. It may even give them a passion and outlet for bigger and better things.

They spent over £1million on shop fronts down London Road instead.

[catwoman]

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/13326 ... _Sydenham/

[somerandombloke]

SRB
If you are being sarcastic then please disregard , otherwise :
Fatal utterly senseless stabbing .
Attempted robbery at bank - where a gun was pointed at staff and customers .
Robbery from a shop where the owner was viscously beaten , presumably for having the temerity to resist having his property stolen by worthless morons .

A spate

A very good morning
Nigel

Not not bein sarctasic I didn't hear about the bank job yeah that counts as a spate.

[leenewham]

Am I right in thinking that everyone involved in all 3 incidents recently seem to have been caught and await the penalty under law?

[Tubby]

Yeah that's true as far as I've heard. Either the criminals are a bit crap or the police are brilliant. Prob a bit of both.

Great idea about the Croydon shutters, Lee. If that ever happens I'd be happy to help art-mentor wise.

[leenewham]

Thanks, who knows Will, it may happen in another area.

[somerandombloke]

Yeah that's true as far as I've heard. Either the criminals are a bit crap or the police are brilliant. Prob a bit of both..

Copper friend of a friend says more than youd think of violent crimes is solved by the crims bragging about it down the pub "Ere dont tell no one but you know that bloke what was dissin me keep it to your self but I shivved him last night". Someone else hears mentions it to someone else soon the whole manor know who it is.

[JMLF]

Not meaning to move away from the thread topic but just a comment - it may just be because I'm not always that observant and I don't frequent he high street (in lieu of leaving closer to Kirkdale high street) but has the adopt a shutter idea been happening here recently?
Noticed over last few days, before even looking at the thread that at least a few of the shutters seem to have been redone with colourful appropriate graffiti art and are looking great.