Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

The place for serious discussion, announcements and breaking news about Sydenham
Tim Lund
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Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by Tim Lund »

Not a meeting I'm going to be able to get to, but I'd be interested if anyone else can, and is able to report back.

It's tonight, at 7.00, at the Amersham Arms in New Cross Road
As part of our third meeting, Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum is hosting a discussion forum about what Labour councils and councillors should do about the new round of cuts that the Tory government will be imposing on local authorities.

Are Labour councils doing everything they can to oppose and mitigate cuts? Do they have no option but to implement them, or is a more radical form of resistance possible? How should local anti-cuts movements relate to councillors? What lessons can we learn from history?

Speakers will include Telegraph Hill councillor Luke Sorba.

Followed by practical discussion about local Momentum campaigning activity. Email proposals for agenda to lewishamforcorbyn@gmail.com
For more, here's the event on Facebook.

Just looking up more about Luke Sorba - interesting!
Maria
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by Maria »

Oh no... I didn't know about it & have only just read your post - I would have gone and reported back! And then I would probably have to cope with Eagle et al having temper tantrums but do you know what: I wouldn't even care.

If anybody has gone please let us know? This is all far too important to go un-noticed and unreported.
Eagle
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by Eagle »

Surely even Lewisham Council has got more sense than to go for this Gentleman ( you notice very polite as always ).

Note to Lewisham Council. The country and its people are major debtors . Think about it.

Think about the cuts imposed in Greece , Spain etc etc etc.
admin
Site Admin
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by admin »

Please keep this thread to the local meeting and what happened there. General comments on Mr Corbyn and his policies in Town Pub please.

Admin
Tim Lund
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by Tim Lund »

Interesting stuff on Brockley Central
"The main battles will not begin for a year but the London activist said there was already “concern” for two Labour MPs in south-east London, Vicky Foxcroft in Lewisham Deptford and Jim Dowd in Lewisham West.

"Lewisham West is one of only five constituencies where the local party nominated Mr Corbyn for the leadership but the MP nominated the most right-wing candidate, Liz Kendall. Lewisham Deptford is one of only four constituencies where the party nominated Mr Corbyn but the MP nominated the centrist Yvette Cooper.

"An active Momentum branch, including Trotskyites from the Alliance for Workers’ Liberty, has already held two meetings in Lewisham, each attracting about 80 people, and will hold a third on Monday to discuss whether the local Labour council should implement cuts or pursue a “more radical form of resistance.”"
Telegraph: Two Lewisham MPs could lose their jobs in Momentum plot

quoting Andrew Gilligan in the Telegraph
Tim Lund
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by Tim Lund »

Cross posting here from SOCIALIST CAMPAIGN FOR A LABOUR VICTORY
Councillors should resist cuts! Speech from Lewisham Momentum meeting

On 9 November, Lewisham for Corbyn – Momentum (a local Corbyn supporters’ group in South London) organised a packed debate on Labour councils and cuts. The two speakers, councillor Luke Sorba and Sacha Ismail, were both Momentum supporters but argued different positions. This is Sacha’s speech.

Image
(Luke Sorba addressing the debate)

After the Tories first came back to office in 2010, some Labour council leaderships talked about campaigning against the cuts in local government spending they imposed. Gradually that faded to almost nothing. More recently Labour councils have kept quiet, not even demanding that a future Labour government restore the funding they have lost – not even in the run up to the general election. So much for seriously wanting to stop cuts!

By and large, the Tories got the cuts they wanted. Some Labour councils did it in a slightly better way, making positive changes around the edges of making cuts, while others went more enthusiastically with the flow. But all Labour councils made massive cuts.

Councils lost about a quarter of their funding during the Coalition government. Now we are facing the same order of attack again, meaning complete social devastation. Either we find a new approach, or Labour councils will be reduced even more purely to local administrators of the Tories’ demolition job on our communities.

Instead Labour councillors should refuse to make cuts, defy the Tories’ plans, and help mobilise the labour movement and the community to defeat them.

There are no guarantees of victory, but both logic and historical examples suggest that such a struggle could be successful. Moreover, the risks are smaller than they once were, and while the Tories would have many advantages in such a battle, our side would have many advantages too.

So far I’ve spoken in quite general terms. Let me explain more concretely.

Sometimes the alternative is described as setting a “deficit budget”. I think that’s misleading or a red herring. Councils can borrow money in the same way individuals can, but unlike central government, they cannot operate in a sustained way on the basis of a deficit, borrowing more or less at will or printing money. Nonetheless, they are large organisations with complex finances which give them quite a bit of leeway. They can cut top management salary and perks and scrap wasteful spending like using agency workers and consultants. They can sell non-service-providing commercial assets. They can juggle accounts to move spending items from one financial year to the next. They can begin to run down reserves.

Obviously, by themselves, such financial gambits are not a long term strategy – they can only buy a relatively short amount of time. The point is that this time could be used to mobilise a fight. Councillors should mobilise alongside council and other workers, council tenants and the wider community in a campaign to demand the funding taken in cuts is restored.

If the council took a lead, the response would almost certainly be very big. Demonstrations, strikes, rent strikes, residents withholding council tax, the council withholding certain payments to the government and many other things could all be tried. The aim should be mounting pressure to force concessions from the Tories, push them to back down, and create the best possible conditions for their replacement by a Labour government committed to fully refunding services.

In place of the current refusal of most councillors to even discuss cuts in their local Labour Parties, councillors should help to build and integrate themselves as a part of a democratic anti-cuts movement which discusses, debates and decides how to pursue and escalate the campaign against the government. They should call a democratic local labour movement conference to discuss what to do. If councillors want to argue there is no option but to accept cuts, why not argue it in the broad movement in the most open possible way?

In my view councillors will have little credibility with workers, tenants and the community unless they themselves take a stand against the government by refusing to vote for cuts. That is why things like cutting top management pay are so important – they would go nowhere near plugging the funding gap, but they would show Labour is politically serious. Unfortunately instead we have Labour councils which continue to pay huge salaries at the top, use consultants, private services, academise schools and so on.

If any significant number of Labour councils defied the Tories in the way I have described, refused to make cuts, and mobilise a big campaign, the government would have to retreat quickly. If even one council took a stand, the Tories would have a serious fight on their hands. And of course, one council taking a stand would make a serious national movement much more likely.

The only two Labour councils in the past which took a strong stand of defiance against a Tory government and stood firm in the face of attempts to crush them – Poplar in East London in the 1920s and Clay Cross in Derbyshire in the 1970s – both won.

The kind of thing I’m advocating should have been done beginning in 2010-11, but it could still be done now.

What are the risks? No major struggle is risk free but in some respects the risks are smaller than they used to be. The Tories can no longer jail councillors, as they did during the Poplar struggle, or heavily fine and bankrupt them, as they did in Clay Cross.

The Secretary of State for Local Government has wide powers to send in commissioners to try to take over and run a council. This is often presented as a terrible threat – it is argued or implied that commissioners would wreck services which Labour councillors are currently protecting. I think this is highly dubious – firstly because in fact Labour councils are currently carrying out the big bulk of the cuts the Tories want anyway, and secondly because in fact such commissioners would not be in a strong position.

Imagine unelected commissioners being sent by the Tories to take over a Labour council elected with a massive majority, attempting to impose cuts on defiant councillors and council workers, and a mobilised local community. If they did send commissioners, which they might well be reluctant to do, the resulting situation could be very difficult for them indeed – in fact it might well provoke a wave of even greater defiance and militancy. Remember the response in Lewisham when the Tories’ hatchet men tried to shut down the A&E and maternity unit?

As I said, none of this would be risk free and victory would be far from guaranteed. But the only alternative is passively overseeing and being complicit in devastating damage wreaked on our communities.

One last comment. I think it is very unlikely that any Labour councils or even many councillors will adopt such a stance until there is a groundswell of grassroots support for it in the labour movement and Labour Party. In the first instance that means building a strong anti-cuts movement to fight the cuts regardless of what councillors do, building unity across the left and labour movement in that fight. Secondly it means making the arguments about what councils should do with urgency. As things stand, though, it seems very likely that in the coming year all Labour councils will make cuts and the overwhelming majority of Labour councillors will vote for them. Some on the left will argue that it is therefore necessary to stand council candidates against Labour, for instance as TUSC.

I don’t think that follows at all. Getting a tiny vote and simultaneously excluding yourself from the political battles currently going on in the Labour Party will not help the cause of fighting the cuts. We need to fight the cuts regardless of what Labour councils do, but we also need to fight in the party to demand councillors take a stand as part of that struggle – even if it takes a while to win the argument.
I hammer
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by I hammer »

Crikey, a pro left posting.
Tim Lund
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by Tim Lund »

I hammer wrote:Crikey, a pro left posting.
I should have made clear that I posted that here as a public service, to help inform readers of this Forum, of whom there may be more than follow the Socialist Campaign for a Labour Victory,

Image

about what seems to be happening within the local Labour Party.
robbieduncan
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by robbieduncan »

Which one is promising "Socialism with and iPad"? Actually it doesn't matter. Both are laughable
Tim Lund
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by Tim Lund »

Tim Lund wrote:I posted that here as a public service, to help inform readers of this Forum, of whom there may be more than follow the Socialist Campaign for a Labour Victory

...

about what seems to be happening within the local Labour Party.
It's part of a national pattern
Nothing about the crisis in the Labour party makes sense until you find the honesty to admit that far leftists have taken over its leadership, and the clarity to see them for what they are.
Far leftists do not laugh about Mao to mock communism. They laugh to forget communism

I now seem to have used up my monthly allowance of free reading of Spectator blogs, but I'm remeber it as having links to the same Trotskyist website as linked to for the background of the Sacha Ismail who is helping organise Lewisham for Corbyn.
Steveofsyd
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by Steveofsyd »

Hmmmm, that leaflet reminds me....I need some toilet paper.
Eagle
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by Eagle »

Trouble with all political parties, the members are far more extreme than their voters.

In Labour's case this has been taken to the extreme.
leenewham
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by leenewham »

Exactly Eagle.

During Thatcher's time in office, members of the Federation of Conservative Students (FCS) went as far as wearing stickers declaring: "Hang Nelson Mandela" until the group was banned in 1986 by an embarrassed Tory leadership. The head of the FCS at the time, John Bercow, is now the Speaker of the Commons (he denies being part of the baiting)!

Our current Tory PM went on Jollies in South Africa when it under apartheid, but that was ok because at the time Thatcher labelled Mandela a terrorist and was against sanctions (and at one point about helping starving Africans with shipments form the EU food mountain).

Extremists in all parties so it seems, some of which seem to think their balls are an apple when they are near a pig (he denies this, but it would have been ok as the pig was dead anyway and he tripped while at the same time his belt broke and his trousers and pants fell down).

Could have happened to anyone.
Sydenham
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by Sydenham »

Times and thinking change over the years - today's terrorist and extreme thought becomes tomorrow's norm. Just think of Northern Ireland - Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness - closer to home than South Africa.

Also people mature and grow up (usually) - what one does as a child / teenager / immature adult is not necessarily what one believes in adulthood. I say usually. people experiment - through experimentation they discover what they consider right and wrong.

We've got to allow people the opportunity to change their views - that's what we are trying to do isn't it? Through conversation and sound common sense persuade people to change their minds to reflect what we each think is the right thing to do.
Eagle
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by Eagle »

But at 66 should you not have worked out what you actually believe in .

Unlike his fanactic supporters , hardly out of nappies , he should have moderated his extreme
views with age.
Tim Lund
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by Tim Lund »

Sydenham wrote:Times and thinking change over the years - today's terrorist and extreme thought becomes tomorrow's norm. Just think of Northern Ireland - Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness - closer to home than South Africa.

Also people mature and grow up (usually) - what one does as a child / teenager / immature adult is not necessarily what one believes in adulthood. I say usually. people experiment - through experimentation they discover what they consider right and wrong.
Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness discovered, through experimentation with the the ballot, the bomb, the lives of some thousands of Ulster citizens, and the British security services that the ballot was more effective.

I can see Robin here accusing me of being some kind of Platonic idealist here, but I'm not sure that that's the same thing as discovering what is right and wrong.
leenewham
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by leenewham »

What extreme views Eagle?

Nappies? What are you talking about? Hahahaha…
Last edited by leenewham on 8 Dec 2015 13:08, edited 1 time in total.
Tim Lund
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by Tim Lund »

leenewham wrote:What extreme views Eagle?

Nappes? What are you talking about? Hahahaha…

Is that something you fold?

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Tim Lund
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by Tim Lund »

In the last two weeks, a number of socialist activists connected in some way to the Alliance for Workers’ Liberty have been expelled from the Labour Party. This comes after other such expulsions late last year.

The new expulsions include Jill Mountford, chair of Lewisham Momentum and a member of the Momentum national steering committee, and now the editor of Solidarity, Cathy Nugent.

Jill’s expulsion letter arrived when she out was canvassing for Sadiq Khan for mayor of London. She is well known in the local Labour Party and her expulsion has provoked widespread outrage, not just on the left. Cathy is women’s officer of Goldsmiths University Labour Club.

As well as those who are or have been linked with Workers' Liberty, or are said to be or have been linked, other left-wingers have expelled or excluded from Labour. But since Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader we have been the main target of the “Compliance Unit”. Not because Corbyn and McDonnell support such expulsions, of course - in fact McDonnell has spoken out against them - but because the Compliance Unit is in effect a right-wing factional body not subject to any democratic accountability.
Why the Corbyn-haters are targeting AWL

Some quick googling - here's Cathy Nugent arguing in support of Bahar Mustafa, as reported here

Right-wing media triumph again
“Calling people ‘white trash’ might be daft, but it’s hardly racist
Defend Bahar Mustafa!
Eagle
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Re: Lewisham for Corbyn - Momentum

Post by Eagle »

How can anyone say the term ' white trash ' is not racists .

Come on .
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