Celebrating Brexit.

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alburt.c
Posts: 747
Joined: 26 Apr 2015 13:58
Location: Lower Sydenham

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by alburt.c »

Wow democrasy making big war here.

democrat vote been made so we hav result. good for some peeples. not so good for other peeples.

we must move on with new PM so new UK. must now hav hope for future. :D
Eagle
Posts: 10658
Joined: 7 Oct 2004 06:36
Location: F Hill

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by Eagle »

No Alburt

The fiasco of Brexit was not democracy. The claims of the exiters are even being denied and ridiculed by themselves.

Of course one should be able to sit back and take stock. The bare minimum for such a major decision should be a second referendum.
marymck
Posts: 1578
Joined: 9 Feb 2008 16:30
Location: Upper Kirkdale

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by marymck »

Eagle wrote:No Alburt

The fiasco of Brexit was not democracy. The claims of the exiters are even being denied and ridiculed by themselves.

Of course one should be able to sit back and take stock. The bare minimum for such a major decision should be a second referendum.
No Eagle. Alburt is right. You can't have referendum after referendum until you browbeat the electorate into submission or despair and get the result the establishment wants.

There were claims on both sides that couldn't be proved. There were no "facts" about future economics. It was all guesswork. The establishment believed that voters could be swayed by as little as a £25 difference in annual income pp The establishment then went completely OTT and predicted a >£4K fall in annual income pp. They were wrong on one and wildly guessing on the other. This is a chancellor who has a record of not even being able to accurately predict six months ahead.

I hope that no amount of anti democracy rallies by a few thousand will overturn the choice of millions. Parliament really will be crossing the pale if it does treat the British electorate with the contempt which some of the protesters do.
Eagle
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Joined: 7 Oct 2004 06:36
Location: F Hill

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by Eagle »

Mary
I appreciate you are one of the nicer and long term posters .

It is surely too early to judge any of the things that could or would be caused by secession, especially as it has not happened yet.

It might very well make us 4k per year poorer , how on earth would we know at this stage.

The insistence by the xenophobes that we would be 350 million better of per week and that would go to NHS . Both of the statements were lies.

The number of voters needed to change sides would be less than 2% . You , and others , seem to consider this a whopping victory.

This result , if it allows Brexit , will destroy the UK and also our economy.

Surely that is worth fighting for,
Manwithaview1
Posts: 2162
Joined: 21 Jan 2012 21:23
Location: Sydenham Hill Estate

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by Manwithaview1 »

Eagle wrote:Mary
I appreciate you are one of the nicer and long term posters .

It is surely too early to judge any of the things that could or would be caused by secession, especially as it has not happened yet.

It might very well make us 4k per year poorer , how on earth would we know at this stage.

The insistence by the xenophobes that we would be 350 million better of per week and that would go to NHS . Both of the statements were lies.

The number of voters needed to change sides would be less than 2% . You , and others , seem to consider this a whopping victory.

This result , if it allows Brexit , will destroy the UK and also our economy.

Surely that is worth fighting for,
Fancy that Tories lying to sway an election result. I never saw that coming... :mrgreen:
Manwithaview1
Posts: 2162
Joined: 21 Jan 2012 21:23
Location: Sydenham Hill Estate

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by Manwithaview1 »

marymck wrote:
Eagle wrote:No Alburt

The fiasco of Brexit was not democracy. The claims of the exiters are even being denied and ridiculed by themselves.

Of course one should be able to sit back and take stock. The bare minimum for such a major decision should be a second referendum.
No Eagle. Alburt is right. You can't have referendum after referendum until you browbeat the electorate into submission or despair and get the result the establishment wants.

There were claims on both sides that couldn't be proved. There were no "facts" about future economics. It was all guesswork. The establishment believed that voters could be swayed by as little as a £25 difference in annual income pp The establishment then went completely OTT and predicted a >£4K fall in annual income pp. They were wrong on one and wildly guessing on the other. This is a chancellor who has a record of not even being able to accurately predict six months ahead.

I hope that no amount of anti democracy rallies by a few thousand will overturn the choice of millions. Parliament really will be crossing the pale if it does treat the British electorate with the contempt which some of the protesters do.
The result is non binding so a 2nd referendum can be awarded and invariably is. Judging by the way Leave's promises have ALL collapsed since the result was announced that is the very least that should be offered. Just one last thing what did Farage say before the end of voting? Did he say that if Leave lost 52-48 that it would be unfinished business and that we would call for a 2nd referendum?
rustya
Posts: 56
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 14:18

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by rustya »

My view on Brexit - It's great news!
The turmoil people have said has not arrived, the markets are functioning well, the Banks are well capitalised, and companies and jobs are not leaving the UK.
Whatever your personal views they are all valid - just as the pro Brexiteers - but please think of an alternative argument than the boring and less credible one of "they lied."
Who has lied more? - The EU over 43 years of our membership or the elected Politicians who you voted for?
All politicians highlight facts and morph them into supporting their opinion.
Stop throwing your toys out the pram, and roll up your sleeves.
Thank god we can control our future now.
:D
marymck
Posts: 1578
Joined: 9 Feb 2008 16:30
Location: Upper Kirkdale

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by marymck »

rustya wrote:My view on Brexit - It's great news!
The turmoil people have said has not arrived, the markets are functioning well, the Banks are well capitalised, and companies and jobs are not leaving the UK.
Whatever your personal views they are all valid - just as the pro Brexiteers - but please think of an alternative argument than the boring and less credible one of "they lied."
Who has lied more? - The EU over 43 years of our membership or the elected Politicians who you voted for?
All politicians highlight facts and morph them into supporting their opinion.
Stop throwing your toys out the pram, and roll up your sleeves.
Thank god we can control our future now.
:D
Well said.
Manwithaview1
Posts: 2162
Joined: 21 Jan 2012 21:23
Location: Sydenham Hill Estate

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by Manwithaview1 »

rustya wrote:My view on Brexit - It's great news!
The turmoil people have said has not arrived, the markets are functioning well, the Banks are well capitalised, and companies and jobs are not leaving the UK.
Whatever your personal views they are all valid - just as the pro Brexiteers - but please think of an alternative argument than the boring and less credible one of "they lied."
Who has lied more? - The EU over 43 years of our membership or the elected Politicians who you voted for?
All politicians highlight facts and morph them into supporting their opinion.
Stop throwing your toys out the pram, and roll up your sleeves.
Thank god we can control our future now.
:D
There was no market turmoil at all. the pound didn't fall to its lowest level against the dollar for 35 years, £1.2 trillion wasn't wiped off the planet's stock markets, The NIKKEI wasn't suspended? Shares in RBS and Barclays weren't suspended on the FTSE? The lie/myth ratio was Remain 2:17 Leave As for the ALL politicians highlights facts nonsense why did Leave MPs repeat lies like 60% of our laws are EU ones? As for our future we control it whatever organisation we are in be it NATO, UN, EU etc...
Eagle
Posts: 10658
Joined: 7 Oct 2004 06:36
Location: F Hill

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by Eagle »

Rustya

How can you possibly tell at this stage the results to the UK economy of Brexit.

It has not even happened yet and you are declaring the warnings are false.
We would need to wait until a year after actual secession , if it actually happens.

It is a joke to look at todays situation.
Manwithaview1
Posts: 2162
Joined: 21 Jan 2012 21:23
Location: Sydenham Hill Estate

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by Manwithaview1 »

Eagle wrote:No Alburt

The fiasco of Brexit was not democracy. The claims of the exiters are even being denied and ridiculed by themselves.

Of course one should be able to sit back and take stock. The bare minimum for such a major decision should be a second referendum.
Would so many people have voted Leave if they had known that Freedom of Movement wouldn't stop, NO extra monies would be spent on the NHS a week, that only FOUR EU laws were passed in the UK last year... I mean Cornish voted out then asked errr what about the EU hundreds of millions we get every few years? :roll:
Eagle
Posts: 10658
Joined: 7 Oct 2004 06:36
Location: F Hill

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by Eagle »

It is indeed ironic that many areas that voted for secession are big recipients for EU aid.

Wales and North East especially.

I think many parts of this nation simply lost all reason that fateful day and should be given a chance to return to sanity.
Manwithaview1
Posts: 2162
Joined: 21 Jan 2012 21:23
Location: Sydenham Hill Estate

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by Manwithaview1 »

It is just an extension of the last election that was showered in massive untruths. In April 2010 the economy was deemed a disaster with our debt of around £900 Billion and only 1.3% growth by the Tories. By April 2015 Tories were lauding how brilliant they are with running the economy even though the economy was over £1.5 TRILLION in debt and growth was only 0.3%. Millions blindly believed the Tory narrative from the tax avoiding media, a narrative that is invariably the opposite of the truth... :roll:

Fact is mainly Tory voters voted Leave based on the lies the Tory media have drip fed the population over the last 40 + years.
marymck
Posts: 1578
Joined: 9 Feb 2008 16:30
Location: Upper Kirkdale

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by marymck »

And there we go, round in a circle once again. We who voted out are accused of being insane, or stupid, or ill informed. All because we disagree with those who want to keep their comfy sinecures aboard the unaccountable gravy train that is the EU. Sigh.
Eagle
Posts: 10658
Joined: 7 Oct 2004 06:36
Location: F Hill

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by Eagle »

Mary

Ill Informed I would think in most cases , except for the many who hate foreigners and have been active since the vote.

I would of course not associate your good self with the latter comments.

The comments I have heard from people intending to vote Out and the reasons in many cases left me gobsmacked. They had no idea at all what they were saying was rubbish.


Sad but true,
Sydenham Syd
Posts: 255
Joined: 30 May 2014 09:59
Location: Europe, until otherwise instructed

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by Sydenham Syd »

Agreed.

I think there was a popular misconception that come Monday morning people's lives would have changed given the campaign. The reality is that for the everyday person this campaign as suspected was a total waste of time as nothing will actually change.

Immigration will always be an issue, but I genuinely believe that people thought they would see less immigrants on the street the Monday after the election. This stuff about the money that would be recovered £350m would immediately be spent on the NHS or whatever.

The reality is that it has created jobs: prime minister, home sec., Gove's post, leader of UKIP and a few others. Probably leader of the opposition too, and also a few in the shadow cabinet. The other reality is that the shake down from this nonsense will take so long for people to see any difference that the whole thing will just be a costly load of guff.

All we have actually achieved is to alienate ourselves from our closes neighbours and potentially trash a lot of people just for a bit of political points scoring.

Very few people will actually see any difference apart from some very talented EU citizens who might feel the need to leave. Half of the jobs they are employed to do, British people won't or can't do.

Bewildering.
rustya
Posts: 56
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 14:18

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by rustya »

Manwithaview1 wrote:
rustya wrote:My view on Brexit - It's great news!
The turmoil people have said has not arrived, the markets are functioning well, the Banks are well capitalised, and companies and jobs are not leaving the UK.
Whatever your personal views they are all valid - just as the pro Brexiteers - but please think of an alternative argument than the boring and less credible one of "they lied."
Who has lied more? - The EU over 43 years of our membership or the elected Politicians who you voted for?
All politicians highlight facts and morph them into supporting their opinion.
Stop throwing your toys out the pram, and roll up your sleeves.
Thank god we can control our future now.
:D
There was no market turmoil at all. the pound didn't fall to its lowest level against the dollar for 35 years, £1.2 trillion wasn't wiped off the planet's stock markets, The NIKKEI wasn't suspended? Shares in RBS and Barclays weren't suspended on the FTSE? The lie/myth ratio was Remain 2:17 Leave As for the ALL politicians highlights facts nonsense why did Leave MPs repeat lies like 60% of our laws are EU ones? As for our future we control it whatever organisation we are in be it NATO, UN, EU etc...
Man with a view, any time you want a debate I will gladly hold one, and silence you.
I have learned many things that the EU have denied this country in recent years:
1. Rollout of fast broadband - The EU implied that the UK Government assisting BT in this rollout - implied state aid, therefore blocked it. How disgraceful.
2. The UK Government had to beg ALL the other EU leaders for a reduction of VAT on the Tampon. Ridiculous and true.
3. The EU refused Tesco taking on extra workers - Are we going to allow unelected officials in Brussels to deny our citizens growth ?

I am going to say this to all you Pro Eu campaigners - YOU ARE ALL BAD LOSERS, and actually the vast majority I have spoken to have no credible reasons to remain.
The UK electorate on the balance of history have generally ben proven right.

Oh and lastly the Eu Referendum is not best of 3.

Good day.
Eagle
Posts: 10658
Joined: 7 Oct 2004 06:36
Location: F Hill

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by Eagle »

Rustya

I will leave MWAV to reply to your strange points.

However . We are not losers the country is.
marymck
Posts: 1578
Joined: 9 Feb 2008 16:30
Location: Upper Kirkdale

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by marymck »

Eagle wrote:Mary

Ill Informed I would think in most cases , except for the many who hate foreigners and have been active since the vote.

I would of course not associate your good self with the latter comments.

The comments I have heard from people intending to vote Out and the reasons in many cases left me gobsmacked. They had no idea at all what they were saying was rubbish.


Sad but true,
I'm not ill informed, Eagle. Nor am I insane (despite banging my head against a brick wall on this forum). Nor am I stupid (despite not having the privilege of a university education). And I've heard some crass remarks from the Remain side that have left me pretty gobsmacked too.

But can't people see that it's the self serving political classes, with their PPE degrees and their plans for nice well feathered nests in the EU bureaucracy when their Downing Street ambitions are behind them (anyone remember the Kinnocks?) that are the ones who have most to gain from maintaining the status quo?

I really do hope we can put this behind us and move on. We who voted to leave the EU aren't all anti European, immigrant hating, stupid oiks anymore than those who voted Remain are all full of themselves metropolitan graduates who want to swan around Europe without showing a passport and think themselves somehow superior to older or less privileged citizens. London needs its hinterland and the wider country needs its capital. We're probably better than many of our politicians and their "advisors" we're definitely better than they give us credit for.
Last edited by marymck on 4 Jul 2016 14:47, edited 1 time in total.
mikej
Posts: 416
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 21:55
Location: New Beckenham

Re: Celebrating Brexit.

Post by mikej »

No, Remain supporters are not "bad losers" - we just believe in UK being in the EU and (as a result) the UK remaining as one country and not splintering up.

Would you have said that the Suffragettes were "bad losers" too, when their proposals were voted down by parliament?*

No, of course not - they believed in it and continued to campaign until the vote was granted to women.

And we shall do the same.

Tim Farron - Lib Dem leader has vowed to take the UK back into the EU if we leave.

*remember there were no referendums back then. Parliament voting the idea down is the equivalent of a referendum then.
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