51 Knighton Park Road.

The place for serious discussion, announcements and breaking news about Sydenham

Moderator: frenzarin

Post Reply
Sydenham Syd
Posts: 261
Joined: 30 May 2014 09:59
Location: Europe, until otherwise instructed

51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by Sydenham Syd »

For the second time this summer, this house has been the scene of an all night rave. Residents of the road are pretty powerless and the police say that they can't do much about it.

Cars parked the length of the road, and people urinating along the street and in people's gardens. Thumping beats all night with a dj shouting into a microphone.

Essentially this seems to be where the clientele of the Zanzibar are now partying.

I imagine it is a paid door. 10.39 this morning, people still walking away from it, with half drunk bottles in hand.

Totally unacceptable. We have a lot of footage but not sure how one attaches photos to this.
EUSSR
Posts: 77
Joined: 16 May 2013 14:40

Re: 51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by EUSSR »

"and the police say that they can't do much about i"

truly pathetic.....if they want to do something they can, they obviously dont....

" clientele of the Zanzibar"...says it all...
MovedtoSydenham
Posts: 3
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 13:50
Location: Sydenham

Re: 51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by MovedtoSydenham »

Hello,

We live close to this house and our street was used as an all night parking lot. People coming and going, engines running and revving up, all through the night. People shouting and not being mindful that it is just a quiet residential area where families live. There was security outside (guys with "security" shirts). I went up and asked people who were parking what was going on, and they said it was a birthday party. It was still going on at 10 this morning. We called the non urgent police number and were told there were many calls about this, but that there was nothing they could do. Are there no regulations? I hope it's not going to be a regular thing, otherwise, I think it's good to meet with the residents of that house first, and perhaps a community police officer. Perhaps file a joint complaint. I don't want to be a killjoy, but these are really just streets where old people and families live. It looked like a festival this morning. And it was loud!

Hope there are other suggestions! Have there been more issues with this kind of thing in Knighton Park Road?
EUSSR
Posts: 77
Joined: 16 May 2013 14:40

Re: 51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by EUSSR »

" I think it's good to meet with the residents of that house first, and perhaps a community police officer. "

Im guessing youre being serious... :(

these are the sort of people who do what they want when they want knowing the police will not go near them unless they absolutely have to, they couldnt give a monkeys about what you or anybody else living around there thinks...

please get real and be realistic
mosy
Posts: 4101
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 20:28
Location: London

Re: 51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by mosy »

If it's noise and parking, they were both decriminalised a few years back so are in the domain of the council. From what I gather, doing "something" about it can be a drawn out process as the council is obliged to take steps like give warning notices first. If by some remote chance the property has an entertainment licence, it'd also be a council matter.

Your MP might be able to strengthen your and others' objection to the council to cause them at least to set whatever ball rolling sooner rather than later. The council will also know who owns the property.
shibbycribby
Posts: 8
Joined: 29 Apr 2015 14:03
Location: London

Re: 51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by shibbycribby »

This is what happens when nightspots keep getting closed down. People will try to find another way to have fun. It's the same as the illegal rave scene in the late 80s when the authorities eventually realised that it would be better to move the scene to superclubs in controlled environments. But over the last few years all I've seen is closures in the way of "all night partying' in the capital. Yes theres a few 1-2am places sprung up but the prices are too steep for the 18-30 age group and they generally can go on much much later so realistically these types of raves are bound to happen.
mosy
Posts: 4101
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 20:28
Location: London

Re: 51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by mosy »

There's a lot to what you say and maybe the council can only "move them on". On the other hand, if organised, arguably they'd be mobile rather than static and waiting until moved on. Maybe it was just a birthday party, although with a hundred guests it probably always will be someone's birthday, meaning the excuse can't be allowed to wash as on ongoing excuse.
bensonby
Posts: 1650
Joined: 18 Jun 2008 12:28
Location: Kent

Re: 51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by bensonby »

EUSSR wrote:"and the police say that they can't do much about i"

truly pathetic.....if they want to do something they can, they obviously dont....
It's hardly "pathetic" or the police's fault if they have not been granted the powers to deal with a particular issue.

If it is just a case of noise nuisance then the police have no statutory powers to intervene. The local council have the powers and indeed the duty to take action.

There may well be other offences - its hard to tell from the initial post - but the severity of those offences has to be balanced against whatever else is happening on the borough at the time, the police resources available and the potential for escalating matters if enforcement is undertaken. (e.g. is it worth starting a riot for someone peeing in a garden)
prince
Posts: 232
Joined: 23 Mar 2016 17:57
Location: London

Re: 51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by prince »

Sydenham Syd wrote:For the second time this summer, this house has been the scene of an all night rave. Residents of the road are pretty powerless and the police say that they can't do much about it.

Cars parked the length of the road, and people urinating along the street and in people's gardens. Thumping beats all night with a dj shouting into a microphone.

Essentially this seems to be where the clientele of the Zanzibar are now partying.

I imagine it is a paid door. 10.39 this morning, people still walking away from it, with half drunk bottles in hand.

Totally unacceptable. We have a lot of footage but not sure how one attaches photos to this.

I have every sympathy with you.

While the Council does not seem to operate an out of hours service there is some information on the web site.

https://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/ ... igate.aspx
Sydenham
Posts: 290
Joined: 2 Sep 2007 09:08
Location: Wells Park

Re: 51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by Sydenham »

prince wrote:
Sydenham Syd wrote:
While the Council does not seem to operate an out of hours service there is some information on the web site.

https://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/ ... igate.aspx
Totally frustrating for residents - just had a look at this website and noted the section about what the Council can't investigate (copied below). Especially drawn by the fifth one about noise from people shouting or screaming on the public road or footpath. So if the noise is from the property they can deal with it - but if the noise is from people spilling out onto the footpath they can't.

If this is not a council or police matter then what other possible action is there for residents disturbed? (Serious question).

Noise complaints we cannot deal with
There are some complaints that we cannot deal with legally no matter the number of complaints made. These are complaints: 
 
1. received anonymously
2. where the source of the noise is unknown
3. about ordinary living noise
4. about aircraft or railway noise
5. about people shouting, laughing or screaming on a public road or footpath
6. about road traffic on the public highway
7. about late night deliveries
8. about approved road works
9. about approved commercial construction work.  
prince
Posts: 232
Joined: 23 Mar 2016 17:57
Location: London

Re: 51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by prince »

Sydenham wrote:
prince wrote:
Sydenham Syd wrote:
While the Council does not seem to operate an out of hours service there is some information on the web site.

https://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/ ... igate.aspx
Totally frustrating for residents - just had a look at this website and noted the section about what the Council can't investigate (copied below). Especially drawn by the fifth one about noise from people shouting or screaming on the public road or footpath. So if the noise is from the property they can deal with it - but if the noise is from people spilling out onto the footpath they can't.

If this is not a council or police matter then what other possible action is there for residents disturbed? (Serious question).

Noise complaints we cannot deal with
There are some complaints that we cannot deal with legally no matter the number of complaints made. These are complaints: 
 
1. received anonymously
2. where the source of the noise is unknown
3. about ordinary living noise
4. about aircraft or railway noise
5. about people shouting, laughing or screaming on a public road or footpath
6. about road traffic on the public highway
7. about late night deliveries
8. about approved road works
9. about approved commercial construction work.  

Thanks Sydenham.

I share your disappointment however I think the important thing is that as many people who have been affected complain to the Council via this avenue.

To be honest I wouldn't personally waste my time trying to speak to the party organisers. If they had any consideration for others they wouldn't hold an event that was so disturbing for their neighbours.
John H
Posts: 278
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 18:15
Location: Sydenham

Re: 51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by John H »

There is a great deal the Police can do. An illegal "bothey" was operating. Money changed hands for drink and there is no licence. The people in the street were breaching the peace. The local authority can impose a noise abatement order on the residents. Given the number of people complaining there is cause. Time for us to create that residents' association we talked about some years ago.

If anyone is interested indicate here and I shall make the first move to set one up.
bensonby
Posts: 1650
Joined: 18 Jun 2008 12:28
Location: Kent

Re: 51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by bensonby »

There doesn't appear to be a breach of the peace in what was originally posted. A breach of the peace, in law, essentially is when physical harm is done or likely be done (R v Howell). It doesn't mean that people aren't respecting "peace and quiet".

In terms of if it was an unlicensed paid-for event then there are offences and powers that kick in. The decision whether to intervene then and there would be a discretionary one balancing resources and public safety. Ultimately the licensing authority is the Local Authority.

In respect of noise - if there were sound systems the council have powers and duties to deal.

If there are ongoing issues then there are orders and such like that can be applied for by the council and/or police and action can be taken by landlords (if there is one). I'd expect the police, council and landlord to work together in that regard. Any other licensing breaches and so on can also be investigated and prosecuted more slow time.
JRobinson
Posts: 1104
Joined: 5 Jan 2010 12:40
Location: De Frene Rd

Re: 51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by JRobinson »

it could just have been a party, however there were people urinating in the street, and an amplified DJ. There probably other issues, and the fact that they had security on the door indicates that the organiser was expecting trouble.
John H
Posts: 278
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 18:15
Location: Sydenham

Re: 51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by John H »

At one point I counted 200 people thronging in the street. Cars were illegally parked at all junctions on the double yellow lines. Unfortunately Lewisham has "outsourced" its noisy party patrol.

On the noise alone, the two recent incidents are sufficient to warrant a noise abatement order. All it takes is a few good citizens to join up to a complaint.
JRW
Posts: 419
Joined: 18 Jun 2015 15:01

Re: 51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by JRW »

Um, what about alerting the tax and Excise men that a business is trading there, with no apparent license. They don't like losing out on their revenue. What's the chances that such an outfit is actually paying their dues?
Nigel
Posts: 2414
Joined: 22 May 2005 16:12
Location: Laurie Park

Re: 51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by Nigel »

Not to mention PRS licence for playing ( horribly loud ) recorded music .
Nothing but sympathy for you .
A very good evening
Nigel
prince
Posts: 232
Joined: 23 Mar 2016 17:57
Location: London

Re: 51 Knighton Park Road.

Post by prince »

Has anyone made a complaint to the Council?
Post Reply