New yoga studio?

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appletree
Posts: 95
Joined: 30 Jun 2015 09:40
Location: Sydenham

Re: New yoga studio?

Post by appletree » 17 Feb 2018 12:57

What kind of noise do yoga classes make? None, in my experience.

I start to wonder if the planning office is not trying to run the area into the ground. This would have been a good addition, much better than a bookies. There seems to be no will to help the area flourish.

Tim Lund
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Location: Silverdale

Re: New yoga studio?

Post by Tim Lund » 17 Feb 2018 15:54

appletree wrote:What kind of noise do yoga classes make? None, in my experience.

I start to wonder if the planning office is not trying to run the area into the ground. This would have been a good addition, much better than a bookies. There seems to be no will to help the area flourish.
I assume this was written tongue in cheek. There is no reason why planning officers would want to do this. They might have a mistaken idea of what is good for an area, or more likely they operate under constraints which oblige them to act as they do.

Tim Lund
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Re: New yoga studio?

Post by Tim Lund » 17 Feb 2018 16:23

JGD wrote:The members and officers could have elected to grant permission and then clarify the two issues highlighted in their rejection.

In another application not 1m miles away on Kirkdale, a Change of Use application, which had no Noise Survey or Impact statement included, was granted, with these conditions

"3. (a) Prior to first operation of the A3 use hereby approved, details of proposals for XXXX and XXXX shall have been submitted to
and approved in writing by the local planning authority.
(b) The facilities as approved under part (a) shall be provided in full prior to commencement of the A3 use and shall thereafter be permanently retained and maintained."

and

"7. (a) Prior to first operation of the A3 use, a noise survey and details of any measures required to alleviate noise impact arising from plant associated with the proposed use on nearby residential properties shall be submitted to and approved in writing by the local planning authority.
(b) Any noise alleviation measures approved under part (a) of this condition shall be installed in accordance with the approved plans and specification before use of the development hereby permitted first commences and shall thereafter be permanently maintained in accordance with the approved specification."

It is the absence of consistency and qualitative approach in the decision process that is less than satisfactory and on balance unacceptable..
Members and officers? I don't think this would have gone to a planning committee, so Members (councillors) wouldn't necessarily have been involved, although the ward councillors will have been consulted, and may have submitted comments. As noted earlier in this thread, comments do not seem to have been published on line, even though it is said they will be. Maybe they were available before the consultation period ended - it would be interesting to follow this up.

As to officers, the case officer here is Vineeta Sharma, who on googling is probably here on LinkedIn, and is "passionate about Urban social policy and Urban environmental policy/development", although the refusal letter is signed by the head of planning, Emma Talbot. Not sure that she would have had much involvement, though.

The Sydenham Society? Hard to see them as the villain of the piece here - this is their Chair on another Forum, 25th January
I think this is a brilliant idea and a great use for a prominent empty shop. I’ve been practising Iyengar yoga for more than 30 years and am passionate about its health benefits. Before MoreYoga arrives, you can check out the yoga on offer at the Sydenham Centre - some great practitioners in a variety of styles teach there. Full details on the TV screen in the window - or for more info go to #syd&fhyoga
Annabel McLaren
Local government officers really are under pressure, but it should always be possible to find out why such an odd decision gets made. I'll tweet Annabel to ask her help.

I know that in the course of a planning application it should be possible for members of the public to see files, including all public comments, if they visit the planning department in Catford - not sure if it is possible once the decision has been made.

If comments are only public during a consultation, it may be worth logging them for future reference!

appletree
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Location: Sydenham

Re: New yoga studio?

Post by appletree » 17 Feb 2018 20:16

It was hyperbole, yes, but I am frustrated with planning delays and objections to things that would improve the area.

Tim Lund
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Location: Silverdale

Re: New yoga studio?

Post by Tim Lund » 17 Feb 2018 21:08

appletree wrote:It was hyperbole, yes, but I am frustrated with planning delays and objections to things that would improve the area.
Sorry - that was a bit pompous of me.☹

appletree
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Location: Sydenham

Re: New yoga studio?

Post by appletree » 18 Feb 2018 10:18

It was a fair comment.

syd
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Re: New yoga studio?

Post by syd » 18 Feb 2018 10:52

Tim Lund wrote:
appletree wrote:It was hyperbole, yes, but I am frustrated with planning delays and objections to things that would improve the area.
I don't know about that. It feels like gerrymandering. Keep the middle classes out to keep it labour.

syd
Posts: 269
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Location: lower sydenham

Re: New yoga studio?

Post by syd » 18 Feb 2018 10:54

syd wrote:
Tim Lund wrote:
appletree wrote:It was hyperbole, yes, but I am frustrated with planning delays and objections to things that would improve the area.
I don't know about that. It feels like gerrymandering. Keep the middle classes out to keep it labour.
Sorry Appletree I removed Tims comment. I don't believe you were being hyperbolic.

Tim Lund
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Location: Silverdale

Re: New yoga studio?

Post by Tim Lund » 18 Feb 2018 13:02

syd wrote:
Tim Lund wrote:
appletree wrote:It was hyperbole, yes, but I am frustrated with planning delays and objections to things that would improve the area.
I don't know about that. It feels like gerrymandering. Keep the middle classes out to keep it labour.
No - it's just confused. Worth looking at who votes Labour now

Forget the flat caps – this is what Labour voters really look like

TredownMan
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Location: Sydenham

Re: New yoga studio?

Post by TredownMan » 18 Feb 2018 16:06

I strongly support the application and hope it gets approved soon - but if they didn’t submit the right forms for the process then I don’t think the council has much choice otherwise.

Imagine the backlash - or indeed grounds for challenge - if the council tried to approve housing or the Nando’s without the right hoops being jumped. Given the quagmire that faces the most modest proposals round here its little surprise that the council feels it needs to take a rulebook approach.

mosy
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Re: New yoga studio?

Post by mosy » 18 Feb 2018 17:14

Indeed. Plus granting a change of use would also be relevant to any other future business which occupies the premises so if the conditions/assessments reports are required for the revised use, then clearly they need to be submitted, even if a yoga studio can honestly declare a nil effect.

Mind you, nothing has been put forward on here apart from suspicion or innuendo about the council's refusal so I'll wait to see if a revised submission is made and approved.

TredownMan
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Location: Sydenham

Re: New yoga studio?

Post by TredownMan » 18 Feb 2018 22:09

Or to be more blunt - noise and traffic grounds are invariable used as a way for people to block developments they don’t like; so it’s annoying but not surprising if they start becoming an obstacle to projects that people do want, due to council caution.

leenewham
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Re: New yoga studio?

Post by leenewham » 18 Feb 2018 23:36

A betting shop is in the 'Sui Generis' category. A yoga studio is D2. I thought it was permitted change of use which doesn't need approval:
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/2 ... e_of_use/2

Biscuitman, am I missing something there, or does Lewisham treat this differently? I know some councils don't follow national planning guidance and individual officers interpret things in different ways which shows some inconsistencies in planning decisions, even in the same street.

It the business owners are looking at this forum, does anyone have any recommendations for Noise Impact Assessors to help them?

I know of this site which may help them (or anyone else that needs one): http://www.association-of-noise-consultants.co.uk/

biscuitman1978
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New yoga studio?

Post by biscuitman1978 » 19 Feb 2018 13:31

leenewham wrote:A betting shop is in the 'Sui Generis' category. A yoga studio is D2. I thought it was permitted change of use which doesn't need approval:
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/2 ... e_of_use/2

Biscuitman, am I missing something there, or does Lewisham treat this differently? I know some councils don't follow national planning guidance and individual officers interpret things in different ways which shows some inconsistencies in planning decisions, even in the same street./[/url]
You're nearly right, Lee!

In short, some permitted development rights are just that - you don't need any kind of approval.

But other permitted development rights are subject to 'prior approval', which is probably best described as a 'light touch planning permission' where a limited number of issues need to be considered. These issues are set out in legislation.

In the case of a change of use of a betting office to a D2 use, the issues are (to paraphrase the legislation):
(a) Noise impacts of the development,
(b) Impacts of the hours of opening of the development,
(c) Transport and highways impacts of the development, and
(d) Whether it is undesirable for the building to change to a use falling within class D2 because of the impact of the change of use on (i) the availability of shops and services in the area, or (ii) where the building is located in a key shopping area, on the sustainability of that shopping area

The applicant needs to deal with these issues and, if insufficient information is submitted to address them, the application for prior approval can be refused.

As a general point, the table produced by planning consultant Lichfields is much better than the table on the Planning Portal website. It even includes clickable links to the legislation for those who are super-keen! See http://lichfields.uk/media/2913/lichfie ... -order.pdf

JMLF
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Re: New yoga studio?

Post by JMLF » 19 Feb 2018 13:41

GOOD NEWS!

I emailed moreyoga just on the offchance they received a bog standard rejection letter rather than the explanation as offered by the council on twitter/other.

They responded very positively appearing to cite there were errors on both sides during the application and steps are already in place to re-apply with all necessary documentation and they are “pushing forward” to be in Sydenham as soon as possible.

:D :D

prince
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Re: New yoga studio?

Post by prince » 19 Feb 2018 13:44

JMLF wrote:GOOD NEWS!

I emailed moreyoga just on the offchance they received a bog standard rejection letter rather than the explanation as offered by the council on twitter/other.

They responded very positively appearing to cite there were errors on both sides during the application and steps are already in place to re-apply with all necessary documentation and they are “pushing forward” to be in Sydenham as soon as possible.

:D :D
That's great to hear. Thanks so much for contacting them.

JMLF
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Re: New yoga studio?

Post by JMLF » 19 Feb 2018 14:29

No problem. Although I’m not the biggest fan of technology I’m beginning to realise taking 5 minutes to write an email, support an application online or do something on “social media” can actually have pretty direct, fast impact. I’m sure they would’ve been doing what they are doing anyway but a few random positive emails from locals can’t be a bad thing to give a business some confidence in opening in the area etc.!

appletree
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Location: Sydenham

Re: New yoga studio?

Post by appletree » 20 Feb 2018 01:29

Good for you, JMLF.

TredownMan
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Location: Sydenham

Re: New yoga studio?

Post by TredownMan » 26 Feb 2018 17:09

The latest papers, including the noise assessment, have been published.

I'm not sure if they're taking the process entirely seriously.

"There maybe some Ommmmm’ing but this is the extent of the noise."

http://planning.lewisham.gov.uk/online- ... 657165.pdf

There'll be a cycle rack around the back too.

owlwise
Posts: 210
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Re: New yoga studio?

Post by owlwise » 26 Feb 2018 22:10

Can't wait for this to open in Sydenham. Count me in as future member! :D

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