sticky:Mural?

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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby JRW » 10 Jun 2018 18:05

Honestly, I think a demo would be a mistake. We need to have an open discussion first, with everyone allowed to contribute their opinions. Do we know how much money the crowdfunding raised? Is it the council view or the lack of public support that has put this project on hold? The assembly is a good place for this, but there is a packed agenda this time, so it will be difficult to squeeze it in. Several urgent major planning issues will take some time to cover, not to mention the baffling Fun Palace events......
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby TredownMan » 10 Jun 2018 18:33

Perhaps JMLF can shed some light on the council's hesitancy? Shame to see this wither: the project really had momentum.
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby JGD » 10 Jun 2018 19:00

JRW wrote:Do we know how much money the crowdfunding raised? Is it the council view or the lack of public support that has put this project on hold? .


The sequence agreed prior to moving to kick-off for crowd funding was that selection of site, selection of artwork and confirmation of those points would have to be secured beforehand.

Lewisham's statement on their "preference" on location meant that there was no final agreement on that point.

And whilst there has been discussion on an alternative locus - crowd funding did not begin. Unless I have completely mis-understood therefore, funds raised is set at zero.

Public support has not been tested for similar reasons (namely Lewisham's uncertainty).

Can anyone provide further updates ?
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby JRW » 13 Jun 2018 23:07

Hi all. As JMLF seems to have gone quiet on this topic, can I have the contact details for the Network Rail coordinator on this? I want to get the platform 1 mural back on track, to cover the graffiti and cheer up the station platforms.

I have agreed to gather some information on this for the Syd Soc, and would be happy to take the job on if no-one else is interested. The Christmas/New year shutdown would be a good opportunity to deliver it, so let's not waste any more time.
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby Tim Lund » 14 Jun 2018 08:44

JRW wrote:Hi all. As JMLF seems to have gone quiet on this topic, can I have the contact details for the Network Rail coordinator on this? I want to get the platform 1 mural back on track, to cover the graffiti and cheer up the station platforms.

I have agreed to gather some information on this for the Syd Soc, and would be happy to take the job on if no-one else is interested. The Christmas/New year shutdown would be a good opportunity to deliver it, so let's not waste any more time.


Is there an informal SydSoc position, "Sydenham Town Forum spokesperson"? This seemed once to be a role for Beninahurry, but there's been nothing from him since the Council housing and the Sydenham Society thread.

Separately, if it is now appropriate for information to be gathered on this for Syd Soc, it confirms my earlier comments on this thread:

for any such project to go ahead, it has to be owned in some sense by Chris Best and the Sydenham Society. This is possible thanks to their readiness to use the planning process to prevent any project which they don't own, in this sense. Hence the objections to Lee's ideas for the bridge

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18311&p=168065#p168065

The upshot is that what ideas do succeed, such as the Mosaic, do so because they have the heft of Chris and SydSoc behind them. This then supports the idea that these long standing representatives of the local community are the people round here who actually know how to get things done, and those coming in with new ideas naturally look to them for support.


https://sydenham.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18311&p=168859#p168811
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby JGD » 14 Jun 2018 08:46

The Network Rail contact for the original proposal and who co-ordinated the Catford and Forest Hill murals did not AFAIA play a role on that in-station site proposal.

SydSoc representatives attended the first kick-off meeting and advised that they had been endeavouring to move to paint a mural there for some time. It is my recall that SydSoc had a separate contact with Network Rail.

Perhaps approaching them will provide what you ask.

I have written extensively on here about the difficulties, extra costs and access constraints that exist and make this choice less than ideal.
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby JRW » 14 Jun 2018 08:56

For heaven's sake Tim. This is not a conspiracy. I am local, and want to do something myself. I am willing to do the necessary work, so i asked to involve the Syd Soc, as they exist, have excellent connections, the ability to circulate a large proportion of the community on social media,, and are generally useful. I tried contributing to the previous attempt to plan a mural, and was told to go and start my own project. So I am.

If you are just wanting to encourage a toxic atmosphere on the forum, congrats on your success. By spinning my personal initiative into your theme of the Syd Soc as dark overlord, you have done your best to put me off. Not going to happen.
Last edited by JRW on 14 Jun 2018 09:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby JRW » 14 Jun 2018 08:58

Thanks JGD. I asked for the Syd Soc contacts in Network Rail, but they no longer work there, and only you and Jon have access to the current contacts.
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby JGD » 14 Jun 2018 09:31

Julia

Understood.

I'm afraid however that I played no part in communicating directly with NR.

However I do know someone who does and can contact them and ask for details..

Jon also was active on the forum yesterday - perhaps a short PM to him may also provide the name and details.

Looked at both The Dolphin and ERAC sites yesterday.

Now that the hoarding has been removed The Dolphin site looks diminished and less prominent.

The ERAC site with the pre-positioned access gantry looks excellent..

The PW site is still the most attractive in terms of sight lines.
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby JRW » 14 Jun 2018 09:45

Thanks JGD, it would be great if you could ask around. I saw Jon's posts on other issues, but as he hasn't responded to people's enquiries for some time now, I presumed he had lost interest.

I agree that the platform 1 spot is hard to deliver, but given that Network Rail want a mural done, and have money put aside for it, perhaps they could instal it at the Christmas / New Year shutdown? It could be done on panels off-site, which would make the installation time more manageable.

I'd like to ask them if it is feasible; they can always say no. That way we know where we stand, and can cross the site off the list if necessary.
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby JGD » 14 Jun 2018 10:08

JRW wrote:
I agree that the platform 1 spot is hard to deliver, but given that Network Rail want a mural done, and have money put aside for it, perhaps they could instal it at the Christmas / New Year shutdown? It could be done on panels off-site, which would make the installation time more manageable.
.


This kind of innovative thinking may get it done.

But do not over-invest in believing the Christmas closedown will deliver any real time window to carry out the installation. Depending on what works may be getting done locally (Including works on that site itself) all sorts of engineering trains and the like may have to use that path to access any works during the closedown period. I'm afraid it's all in the nature of the beast and realism is absolutely essential.

As you say NR will be able to advise best. Be aware that there is a long lead time on NR's part when planning closedowns and granting possession of sections of track. That planning process can begin as long as a full year in advance of works being done with key points in the countdown being used to review changes in possession needs. So next Easter may already be too near and the Christmas after may present the real opportunity.
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby JRW » 14 Jun 2018 10:25

That is fine, as long as it gets the plan into motion. I am only banging on about Christmas to remind people that network rail knows in advance about some shutdowns, so a mural doesn't necessarily mean shutting the track down specially!
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby JGD » 14 Jun 2018 11:04

JRW wrote:
... so a mural doesn't necessarily mean shutting the track down specially!


I refer to my earlier detailed posts on this and the other forum.

ANY work down on or near the track will need some form of possession.

In all probability it will need installers and or artists to be trained in track-side working - a very formal and controlled process.

And securing a possession in that location will almost certainly mean that trains will not be allowed to pass on that pathway (that is the slow up line). Complete shutdown of the railway will not present the only opportunity but planning to close that one path will be required.

Careful planning will be necessary to endeavour to "piggy back" such a closure with another scheme of work if the mural project is to avoid having the costs of possession paid for entirely by the mural project - and that cost alone, calculated on a regulated compensatory scheme, can be very high.

It is impossible to do a full mind-dump on these issues - NR will at the end of the day advise and control on such matters.
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby TredownMan » 14 Jun 2018 11:09

What’s the Sydenham Society’s position on using the station external wall, as originally proposed and widely supported?
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby JRW » 14 Jun 2018 11:18

How widely? We never heard a summary of responses, the whole thread fell silent. Doing platform 1 doesn't prevent other murals happening anyway. It is, however, an eyesore that I would like to try and improve. It is really sad that every effort gets dragged into the general anti-syd Soc rants. Needless to say, if platform 1 happens, the mural will be chosen by public vote. I have no intention of imposing my particular ideas on everyone else. I just want something positive to cheer people up when they go into the station.
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby TredownMan » 14 Jun 2018 11:57

I'm just curious
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby Tim Lund » 14 Jun 2018 12:34

Meanwhile in a neigbouring galaxy

Image

A Street Art Guide To Penge
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby JGD » 14 Jun 2018 12:37

Is that galaxy far, far away ?
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby Hissing Syd » 14 Jun 2018 12:49

I have no intention of imposing my particular ideas on everyone else. I just want something positive to cheer people up when they go into the station.


Thanks for all you're doing, JRW, regarding this and the monstrosity. You're putting a lot of time in to doing something constructive, and as an occasional poster, I just wanted to say it's really appreciated. All the best to you.
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Postby JRW » 14 Jun 2018 12:59

Cheers for that! Let's just get something done, and leave the global conspiracies to those who enjoy that kind of thing.......
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