Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

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JGD
Posts: 398
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Lewisham

Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2

Post by JGD » 27 Nov 2018 14:10

Lewisham Council refused application for planning permission for the whole development (DC/17/100680), which has subsequently been appealed by the applicant.

The Council did seek Counsel on defending the refusal reasons put forward by Planning Committee C and it has been agreed that only reasons 1 and 2 can be defended by the Council.

Reasons 3 and 4 are considered to be indefensible as the evidence for them cannot be substantiated by the Council.

This position has been decided by the Council.

An Inquiry by the Planning Inspectorate is due to be held in 2019. All submissions to the Inspector were to be made earlier this year.

The Inspector's Report on that Inquiry will determine whether the appeal succeeds or fails. If it succeeds it can be anticipated that the applicant will proceed with the development, potentially with a new occupant specified for the building that was going to be occupied by Aldi.

It would seem the decision to demolish the gas-holders has been de-facto determined by the Council in a separate application and can proceed, independent of the Planning Inspectorate's Inquiry.

Heritage England has issued COIL certificates which state that they will not consider listing the gas-holders in the next five years. There is no evidence of any other substantive matters that Heritage England will consider and at this stage and Formal Reports were submitted to Council on several matters such as wildlife, nesting birds and the like which means there is no material matters now that remain to be considered by the Council.

It can be anticipated that Montagu Evans are now in a position to instruct the works to commence.

JGD
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Location: Lewisham

Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2

Post by JGD » 5 Dec 2018 10:55

Update from the Planning Inspectorate on case ref APP/C5690/W/18/3203617


Inquiry (time, date and venue) has been set: 10.00am on 26 to 29 March & 2 April 2019 in Lewisham Council Offices, Laurence House, 1 Catford Road, London SE6 4SW

Estimated number of sitting days is set at 5.

https://acp.planninginspectorate.gov.uk ... 617&CoID=0

Follow the document link and a pdf will be presented for download with the above information embedded in it.

michael
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Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2

Post by michael » 2 Jan 2019 15:45

Email received from SGN:
Notification of major gas works: Dismantling Sydenham’s redundant gas holder


As you may already be aware, we will be starting a programme of work to dismantle Sydenham’s redundant gas holder. I would like to provide you with the following brief introduction to the project and some key information you may find useful.

The reason for dismantling gas holders

Major investment into gas distribution has resulted in changes to the way we now store gas. Gas previously stored in holder tanks is now more efficiently stored underground in the gas pipe network.

The majority of holders in the UK are no longer operational, their ageing structures continue to require significant maintenance to keep them in a safe and visually acceptable condition - it’s not a sustainable option to maintain these redundant structures long term.

From an environmental perspective, we are keen to see the land the holders occupy regenerated to provide a benefit to the community in the future.

What work is involved?

We will be taking the holder structure down and leaving the ground where it currently sits level, there are no plans to excavate the land beneath.

We have carefully appointed specialist contractors Keltbray Group whose priorities are to deliver this project safely with minimum impact to the local community.

Noise, odour and dust levels will be closely monitored, with appropriate suppression systems in place wherever possible.

Programme timeline

Start: Monday 7 January 2019
Complete: 11 months
Hours of work: Monday – Friday 8am to 6pm (contractors may be on site from 7am setting up), Saturday mornings as required.

There is no planned requirement for weekend work

Capturing local history

We appreciate that to many these industrial structures represent a visual reminder of your local town’s history. As part of the wider dismantling programme, we are committed to working closely with communities to ensure the history of your holder is captured for future generations to learn from. Phase 1 of the historic building recording report has been prepared and a copy provided to the Council and Phase 2 of the report will be completed during the dismantling phase of the project.

Please share this information with anyone you think may be impacted by our work.

JGD
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Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2

Post by JGD » 2 Jan 2019 16:47

Good news.

Interesting that the work programme's duration is set over an 11 month period.
SGN [i]via [/i]michael wrote:Programme timeline
Start: Monday 7 January 2019
Complete: 11 months
Hours of work: Monday – Friday 8am to 6pm (contractors may be on site from 7am setting up), Saturday mornings as required.

There is no planned requirement for weekend work
The part about the limit of the excavation is not clear.

The Inquiry by the Planning Inspectorate for the separate development works is scheduled to start at the end of March.
JGD wrote:Inquiry (time, date and venue) has been set: 10.00am on 26 to 29 March & 2 April 2019 in Lewisham Council Offices

michael
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Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

Post by michael » 9 Jan 2019 07:16

https://www.lewisham.gov.uk/news/Pages/ ... lders.aspx

Sounds like Lewisham council are expecting the appeal to be withdrawn by SGN for the additional supermarket on the site of the gas holders.

JGD
Posts: 398
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Location: Lewisham

Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

Post by JGD » 9 Jan 2019 10:39

A portion of the web-site commentary at the same link says this:

"SGN are open to retaining part of the structure on site to acknowledge the heritage of the gasholders. We are very supportive retaining part of the structure and has begun a dialogue with SGN as to the feasibility of this.

Lewisham Council consider the bowling green and tennis courts to form part of the curtilage to Livesey Hall, a Grade II listed building. However, there would not be any basis for us, as local planning authority, to require that SGN to delay demolition of the gasholders until it has a planning permission for development of the wider site. This is a decision for the landholder. We are expecting SGN to withdraw its planning appeal relating to the application refused by the Council in November 2017 for a retail store (Aldi) and SGN offices to be developed on the site of the gasholders and bowling green. This is because permission has recently been granted for the change of use of the former ‘Toys R Us’ unit at Bell Green to a food retail store for Aldi. The withdrawal of the appeal removes the current risk of redevelopment of the bowling green and provides an opportunity for us and SGN to work together on a masterplan for the site.

We are fully aware of the concerns of residents about the future of the gasholders at Bell Green, and look forward to working with the community to secure the future of the site. This is particularly in the context of the need to deliver much-needed affordable housing for local people, along with the new draft Local Plan, which will be going to public consultation early this year.

The work that SGN is set to start this week (7 January 2019) is for site set-up and other preparatory works, with actual dismantling of the gasholders not due to start for a few months."

This refers to a compromise proposal I posted on both se23.life and on STF regarding the retention of some part of the gas-holders.

I suspect the reference by the Council to having "begun dialogue" is as representative of the type of wishful thinking for the future as is "actual dismantling of the gasholders not due to start for a few months."

The work on site commenced on Monday 7 January - i visited the site and can confirm that Keltbray are on site.

If the compromise proposal is to succeed LBL will have to move more rapidly than they have apparently done so far. Keltbray will have to modify their proposals substantially if a portion of a gas holder is to be dismantled in such a way as to enable its re-erection and preservation. SGN certainly expressed willingness to consider elements contained in the compromise but there is no hard evidence of how and when this is to be discussed and agreed.

It is noteworthy that LBL quote no source from SGN or the developers who verify LBL's anticipation that the planning appeal will be withdrawn.

Perhaps LBL's statement is nothing more than political smoke and mirrors.

TredownMan
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Location: Sydenham

Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

Post by TredownMan » 9 Jan 2019 19:13

Given the very obvious split on views locally on this, why is the council talking about “residents” as one homogenous group?

How have they decided it’s the Will of the People to save these structures?

JGD
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Location: Lewisham

Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

Post by JGD » 9 Jan 2019 21:07

Excellent point on TredownMan's part.

It is difficult to see this web-page as anything other than a politically motivated statement with little or no grounding in reality.

Heritage England (HE) does NOT concur with LBL's view on the curtilage issue, proponents from SydSoc have been pushing the point but have resolutely declined to bring forward any evidence that HE is even considering a change in status or definition.

The piece does not bring forward an SGN or Kier statement that the appeal is being withdrawn that supports LBL's position. Given the parties are in dispute, this undercuts LBL's unilateral assertion.

The Planning Inspectorate website reflects no change in the inquiry timetable.

The monologue mis-represents the will of the people. Mainly because the council and its ward councillors have not taken the time to find out what the position, in balance, is.

Whoever is responsible for this spurious piece should be brought to account.

Keltbray are on site and their program for demolition is on target. Just go see for yourselves.

Don't believe LBL's farrago of misinformation.

TredownMan
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Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

Post by TredownMan » 10 Jan 2019 21:40

Is it normal for a council to express a strong political view on a planning issue, having acknowledged it doesn’t have competence on that issue?

TredownMan
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Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

Post by TredownMan » 16 Jan 2019 14:14

This remark we keep on hearing that we need to keep the gasholders because they survived Nazi bombing is utterly absurd, and the councillor should stop making it. It's a ridiculous comparison between a horrific war and the lawful execution of a government policy to remove derelict industrial infrastructure from residential areas.

https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/1735 ... s-holders/

JRW
Posts: 318
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Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

Post by JRW » 16 Jan 2019 22:11

Um, the councillor is citing a historical event, not making a parallel. The gasworks were hit by ww2 bombs. The gasholders were damaged. Production continued throughout this, and gas supplies were available to the neighbourhood. Not a metaphor, but fact.

Unfortunately, SGN has chosen to refuse access to the albums of photos that document this era, the bomb damage and repairs, and the women who worked in the gasworks to release men for active duty. We just have to hope that at some point, these archives of a then-nationalised company are made publicly available.

TredownMan
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Location: Sydenham

Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

Post by TredownMan » 17 Jan 2019 09:09

We’ve heard it before from the same councillor repeatedly. Comparison seems pretty clear

““The Bell Green gas holders have survived bombing raids in the Second World War but will they survive Lewisham Council’s planning committee next Thursday?”

https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/1567 ... h_an_Aldi/

Precisely the sort of silly hyperbole that makes sensible planning debates impossible.

LawriePark
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Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

Post by LawriePark » 17 Jan 2019 09:14

I don’t think you’re listening, tredownman :roll:

JGD
Posts: 398
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Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

Post by JGD » 17 Jan 2019 11:21

LawriePark wrote:
17 Jan 2019 09:14
I don’t think you’re listening, tredownman :roll:
Enlighten us all - what does this comment mean ?

LawriePark
Posts: 45
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Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

Post by LawriePark » 17 Jan 2019 14:28

JGD wrote:
17 Jan 2019 11:21
LawriePark wrote:
17 Jan 2019 09:14
I don’t think you’re listening, tredownman :roll:
Enlighten us all - what does this comment mean ?
So you’re another one that doesn’t read other people’s messages properly then.

stuart
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Joined: 21 Sep 2004 10:13
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Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

Post by stuart » 17 Jan 2019 14:44

LawriePark wrote:
17 Jan 2019 14:28
So you’re another one that doesn’t read other people’s messages properly then.
That's not a very friendly response LP. It's an honest question which has been puzzling me too. Be kind to us.

Cheers,
Stuart

JGD
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Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

Post by JGD » 18 Jan 2019 09:56

Another press piece on the Bell Green gas holder demolition that is underway.

http://www.eastlondonlines.co.uk/2019/0 ... demolished/

A local Forum owner and former resident of the area has been quoted prominently in the piece.

He manages to mention his forums and their addresses six times in the article.

Its purpose cannot possibly be a self-promotion exercise could it ?

Doesn't it make ya proud !

But then there's no such thing as bad publicity - is there.

JRW
Posts: 318
Joined: 18 Jun 2015 15:01

Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

Post by JRW » 18 Jan 2019 14:39

From Lewisham Planning: 18 Jan 2019
"Today we received confirmation from Kier’s agent that the appeal against the Council’s refusal of planning permission for an Aldi store and SGN offices on the site of the gasholders at Bell Green has been withdrawn.

We understand that works will instead proceed to implement the recent permission enabling Aldi to occupy the former Toys R Us unit in the retail park."

JGD
Posts: 398
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Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

Post by JGD » 18 Jan 2019 16:14

JRW wrote:
18 Jan 2019 14:39
From Lewisham Planning: 18 Jan 2019
"Today we received confirmation from Kier’s agent that the appeal against the Council’s refusal of planning permission for an Aldi store and SGN offices on the site of the gasholders at Bell Green has been withdrawn.

We understand that works will instead proceed to implement the recent permission enabling Aldi to occupy the former Toys R Us unit in the retail park."
This information is confirmed on The Planning Inspectorate website where the status has been amended today to "Complete: Appeal Withdrawn"

As predicted by LB Lewisham's Mayor.

That means there is now no current development proposal for the site.

It is to be wondered how long it will take LBL to develop a housing development proposal given that ward councillors have been postulating that this is what was required for the site.

Is the Lewisham Planning statement complete ? Does it refer to the status of the demolition ?

JGD
Posts: 398
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Location: Lewisham

Re: Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

Post by JGD » 21 Jan 2019 20:00

Continued at a new post. Bell Green - A New Plan, January 2019

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