Begging outside Sainsbury's local

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gillyjp
Posts: 287
Joined: 5 May 2005 18:52
Location: Sydenham

Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by gillyjp » 27 Jun 2018 06:21

Begging outside Sainsbury's Local on the corner of Spring Hill is becoming a daily occurrence and a real problem. Has anyone else noticed this?

nicknack
Posts: 30
Joined: 12 Jun 2013 14:54
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by nicknack » 27 Jun 2018 10:02

Yes and I'm sorry to say it will happen more when Nando's opens. There was an old lady this morning sitting on the pavement outside the entrance that isn't even open yet.

syenhamboy
Posts: 87
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 03:33

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by syenhamboy » 3 Jul 2018 03:41

There's a super simple way to get rid of beggars.

DON'T GIVE MONEY TO BEGGARS.
simples

John H
Posts: 278
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 18:15
Location: Sydenham

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by John H » 3 Jul 2018 06:59

syenhamboy wrote:There's a super simple way to get rid of beggars.

DON'T GIVE MONEY TO BEGGARS.
simples
Well said. I believe it is actually an offence to give money to beggars.

nicknack
Posts: 30
Joined: 12 Jun 2013 14:54
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by nicknack » 3 Jul 2018 10:38

John H wrote:I believe it is actually an offence to give money to beggars.
I don't believe it is an offence, though certainly police advice, and the advice of many charities, is not to give money directly to people begging. See this news story from last year, if it was an offence then the sign would surely not have had to be removed https://thecrimepreventionwebsite.com/b ... o-beggars/

I almost never give money on the street, but sometimes on the train when people talk directly to you & explain what they will do with the money I decide on an individual basis. But like most people I much more rarely carry loose change nowadays, what with card use taking over for payments.

monkeyarms
Posts: 261
Joined: 28 Jul 2015 14:54
Location: Tredown

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by monkeyarms » 4 Jul 2018 08:29

I usually give the guy money (who sits outside reading). Have chatted to him about south london and skateboarding several times. He asks for money but doesn't do so aggressively. Clearly Sainsburys don't regard him as a problem.

MagmaTimes
Posts: 83
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 10:56
Location: Sydenham

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by MagmaTimes » 4 Jul 2018 11:56

There's one guy there who's a bit full-on with his approach to asking for money - he tends to just call out "Sir! Sir!" as I'm wandering out of Sainsbury's. Other than that, I say live and let live. They're only asking for money in the same way advertisers are asking for my money. In fact I find the advertising more annoying, on the whole.

Sideofham
Posts: 30
Joined: 10 May 2017 05:50
Location: Kirkdale village

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by Sideofham » 4 Jul 2018 12:25

I think it maybe the same chap who I spotted the other day asking for small change ( in a non-aggressive way) outside Sainsbury’s. I was totally shocked when in response to his pleas of ‘anyone got any spare change, any coppers, I haven’t eaten anything in four days,’ a well-dressed young woman passer-by turned to him and replied ‘God, I wish I had your willpower I need to lose a few extra pounds before I fly off to Marbella.’… Just about sums up today’s me me me society.

parker
Posts: 553
Joined: 26 Mar 2009 21:15
Location: Sydenham Wells

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by parker » 4 Jul 2018 13:58

MagmaTimes wrote:There's one guy there who's a bit full-on with his approach to asking for money - he tends to just call out "Sir! Sir!" as I'm wandering out of Sainsbury's. Other than that, I say live and let live. They're only asking for money in the same way advertisers are asking for my money. In fact I find the advertising more annoying, on the whole.
I think it’s incomparable, advertisers provide a good or service in exchange for money, dossers often just make you feel vulnerable, where you can never be sure which way saying no could go.

For the record Tesco on Kirkdale has the same problem and for that reason I won’t use the cash point there.

stuart
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Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by stuart » 4 Jul 2018 14:33

parker wrote:I think it’s incomparable, advertisers provide a good or service in exchange for money, dossers often just make you feel vulnerable, where you can never be sure which way saying no could go.

For the record Tesco on Kirkdale has the same problem and for that reason I won’t use the cash point there.
Dossers are important to me as a reminder this country has been turned into a third world state where thousands now wander the streets because of poverty, homelessness or mental health issues as a result of the assault on the welfare state. Beggng was almost unknown when I came to London. Do we want to address the problem or drive them away?

Its ironic that those that have benefitted most are amongst those that least wish to mitigate the results. Scared to use the Tesco ATM? Are you sure that isn't guilt? Conflating begging and robbery is surely a bit Daily Mail-ish? I've been mugged in East Dulwich, my wife also (outside SavaCentre) but not by beggars. They are way down on my list threats mostly because they really don't want to provoke any aggro from the police. They literally have no place to run.

Bottom line is to remove the causes of begging. Plenty of ways to do that whether you give money, food or clothing to individuals or not.

Stuart

parker
Posts: 553
Joined: 26 Mar 2009 21:15
Location: Sydenham Wells

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by parker » 4 Jul 2018 19:35

stuart wrote:
parker wrote:I think it’s incomparable, advertisers provide a good or service in exchange for money, dossers often just make you feel vulnerable, where you can never be sure which way saying no could go.

For the record Tesco on Kirkdale has the same problem and for that reason I won’t use the cash point there.
Dossers are important to me as a reminder this country has been turned into a third world state where thousands now wander the streets because of poverty, homelessness or mental health issues as a result of the assault on the welfare state. Beggng was almost unknown when I came to London. Do we want to address the problem or drive them away?

Its ironic that those that have benefitted most are amongst those that least wish to mitigate the results. Scared to use the Tesco ATM? Are you sure that isn't guilt? Conflating begging and robbery is surely a bit Daily Mail-ish? I've been mugged in East Dulwich, my wife also (outside SavaCentre) but not by beggars. They are way down on my list threats mostly because they really don't want to provoke any aggro from the police. They literally have no place to run.

Bottom line is to remove the causes of begging. Plenty of ways to do that whether you give money, food or clothing to individuals or not.

Stuart
Maybe if our government spent the money we’re all paying in via tax on our own citizens rather than sending aid abroad, and having been obligated to bailing out the dregs of Europe for the past 40 years we wouldn’t have thousands wandering the streets because of poverty, homelessness or mental health issues.

Not sure where you’re going with the guilt thing and the cash point. I have nothing to feel guilty about, i don’t sit outside Sainsbury’s or Tesco, I earn an honest day’s living. If I feel uncomfortable about being asked for money by people I do not know and have felt intimidated because it’s been night time, I do not need somebody else to tell me those people should be down on my list of threats.

Growsydenham
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Location: sydenham

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by Growsydenham » 4 Jul 2018 20:39

If people are uncomfortable by the sight of roughsleepers (only the worst, most visible manifestation of a far more wide-ranging homelessness issue)

Then perhaps when the council proposes building more council homes, for homeless families (i.e. at the Hillcrest Estate)

We should try to resist throwing sand in the gears with cooked-up nimby protests about noise and parking.

Zsazsa
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Joined: 25 Jan 2016 16:55
Location: Sydenham

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by Zsazsa » 6 Jul 2018 07:52

Let's hope that the people posting negative stuff about the homeless in our area never find themselves in the same position. If you don't want to give to the homeless then don't, but please don't expect me to demonstrate your lack of empathy with my fellow humans.

MagmaTimes
Posts: 83
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 10:56
Location: Sydenham

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by MagmaTimes » 7 Jul 2018 09:14

Zsazsa wrote:Let's hope that the people posting negative stuff about the homeless in our area never find themselves in the same position. If you don't want to give to the homeless then don't, but please don't expect me to demonstrate your lack of empathy with my fellow humans.
Hear hear!

syd
Posts: 251
Joined: 23 Aug 2006 18:30
Location: lower sydenham

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by syd » 8 Jul 2018 10:38

MagmaTimes wrote:
Zsazsa wrote:Let's hope that the people posting negative stuff about the homeless in our area never find themselves in the same position. If you don't want to give to the homeless then don't, but please don't expect me to demonstrate your lack of empathy with my fellow humans.
Hear hear!
Too right.

I was homeless for a while and I had to struggle to get a roof over my head. The rental market wouldn’t touch me because let’s just say I didn’t fit their criteria. I was desperate and went to a mortgage broker think8ng there was no chance, but he did a cashback deal (and didn’t charge!) that I could use for the deposit. He changed my life by being kind and I’ll never forget that.

I never thought it would be me but it happened so quickly, within weeks, and my so called friend didn’t help. Not having a key or anywhere to go is something I wouldn’t wish on anybody.

I suggest those with nothing positive to add perhaps consider reflecting on what makes them believe people who are homeless are less than themselves

John H
Posts: 278
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 18:15
Location: Sydenham

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by John H » 16 Jul 2018 18:46

Begging and homelessness are two entirely separate issues.

Today I was approached by a healthy young man, in Sainsbury's car park, who asked for money. Naturally I refused while resisting the temptation to ask why such a healthy looking well spoke young man did not find a job. (Sainsbury's are recruiting)..

His response, when I pointed out that begging is illegal, was to ask me to report him because he would get free meals in a cell.

Many who claim to be homeless are nothing of the sort. Those that are deserve our compassion but they are unlikely to be the ones with their hands outstretched.

noangel
Posts: 57
Joined: 22 Apr 2009 11:43
Location: Sydenham

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by noangel » 17 Jul 2018 07:43

John H wrote:Begging and homelessness are two entirely separate issues.

Today I was approached by a healthy young man, in Sainsbury's car park, who asked for money. Naturally I refused while resisting the temptation to ask why such a healthy looking well spoke young man did not find a job. (Sainsbury's are recruiting)..

His response, when I pointed out that begging is illegal, was to ask me to report him because he would get free meals in a cell.

Many who claim to be homeless are nothing of the sort. Those that are deserve our compassion but they are unlikely to be the ones with their hands outstretched.
Why did you resist the temptation to ask him why he isn't working? Take time to speak to this young man, get to know him. Find out why he isn't working and is begging. You might, in some way, be able to help him. Maybe he has applied for a job at Sainsbury's and was unsuccessful. Perhaps begging is the last thing he thought he would be reduced to doing. It seems there is a bigger problem if he is welcoming being arrested so he can get hot meals for at least a day. Maybe he uses all his money to pay for a roof over his head and has none left to feed himself or his family.

I pleased that life is so very easy for everyone on this forum.

John H
Posts: 278
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 18:15
Location: Sydenham

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by John H » 19 Jul 2018 09:26

noangel wrote:
John H wrote:Begging and homelessness are two entirely separate issues.

Today I was approached by a healthy young man, in Sainsbury's car park, who asked for money. Naturally I refused while resisting the temptation to ask why such a healthy looking well spoke young man did not find a job. (Sainsbury's are recruiting)..

His response, when I pointed out that begging is illegal, was to ask me to report him because he would get free meals in a cell.

Many who claim to be homeless are nothing of the sort. Those that are deserve our compassion but they are unlikely to be the ones with their hands outstretched.
Why did you resist the temptation to ask him why he isn't working? Take time to speak to this young man, get to know him. Find out why he isn't working and is begging. You might, in some way, be able to help him. Maybe he has applied for a job at Sainsbury's and was unsuccessful. Perhaps begging is the last thing he thought he would be reduced to doing. It seems there is a bigger problem if he is welcoming being arrested so he can get hot meals for at least a day. Maybe he uses all his money to pay for a roof over his head and has none left to feed himself or his family.

I pleased that life is so very easy for everyone on this forum.
Life is not easy for me and never has been. I have had to work very hard indeed to get to where I am starting from a childhood in abject poverty. For much of my life this meant doing more than one full time job. This man was clearly articulate and well educated. He was clearly healthy and fit and he wore more expensive clothes than I can afford. It was very clear he was doing this by choice. Perhaps he had an addiction to support. I do not care. That is just another expression of selfishness.

He does not work because he is lazy and it is easier to intimidate people who are shopping.

John H
Posts: 278
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 18:15
Location: Sydenham

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by John H » 28 Jul 2018 12:42

Interestingly I saw the man who had been begging in the Sainsbury car park again. This time, however, he was loading his shopping into his car.

Not homeless. Not short of money. Just a scrounger.

parker
Posts: 553
Joined: 26 Mar 2009 21:15
Location: Sydenham Wells

Re: Begging outside Sainsbury's local

Post by parker » 29 Jul 2018 13:03

John H wrote:Interestingly I saw the man who had been begging in the Sainsbury car park again. This time, however, he was loading his shopping into his car.

Not homeless. Not short of money. Just a scrounger.
Sounds about right, people are too soft nowadays.

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