New Aldi approved in Bell Green

The place for serious discussion, announcements and breaking news about Sydenham

Moderator: frenzarin

JGD
Posts: 397
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Lewisham

Re: New Aldi approved in Bell Green

Post by JGD » 17 Dec 2018 20:49

Oh - we are very interested Pat.
Pat Trembath wrote:For the record - that is if anyone on this forum is interested - the Sydenham Society welcomed Nando's. It did ask Lewisham if there was going to be any takeaway or home delivery as it was not clear on the original application.
Trouble is SydSoc cries wolf so often, it is probably unfairly assumed they are agin most applications for positive development.

In SydSoc's name there was and is a major campaign to preserve the gas-holders at Bell Green and resist the final-phase redevelopment there. Never mind the positive benefits delivered by the scheme for those of us who live there. No professed knowledge or acknowledgement of the traffic improvement measures or the provision of off-street parking for patrons of the Livesey Hall that would have provided parking easement for residents within a quarter of a mile around the Hall. There was zero consultation with non-Sydenham residents and zero accountability to real locals for SydSoc's actions.

For the OLSPN - a creditworthy campaign - however representation was made in SydSoc's name about the absence of insurance for the school. A completely fallacious statement that caused difficulty for the managers of the school and for which SydSoc had to make a trite withdrawal. But never an apology has appeared in print.

Did I forget to mention that there is now no barrier to prevent the gas-holders being demolished.

TredownMan
Posts: 147
Joined: 28 Sep 2017 15:38
Location: Sydenham

Re: New Aldi approved in Bell Green

Post by TredownMan » 17 Dec 2018 20:57

What’s the story with the mural? That all went quiet. Did someone block it?

JMLF
Posts: 524
Joined: 12 Dec 2013 19:41
Location: United Kingdom

Re: New Aldi approved in Bell Green

Post by JMLF » 17 Dec 2018 22:40

The mural unfortunately ultimately petered out due to the “conservation area” which the station approach resides in. The council were shown the designs submitted for the vote and said they didn’t want any of them really and that it didn’t keep with the “conservation area”. As a result it was very much that the council, not the locals would pick/decide the design and as that wasn’t the point of the mural project it was ceased. As the designs were based on the dimensions etc of that wall, they to a large degree wouldn’t have just been able to be used elsewhere and unfortunately there are few large canvases that are easily accessible (both to get permission and to physically access) one SE26 (hence one of the main reasons we probably won’t see a Lionel Stanhope “Classic” as seen at a growing number of SE train stations). The “conservation area” was something I did have a little go at with reasons such as some of the shopfronts and some of the shutters down the high street (all of which are within a conservation area of some sort according to council info) which are adorned with quite subjective art (organised by the council and Syd society / Syd arts I believe a few years ago) compared to a far less subjective or divisive typographic mural. But alas it didn’t do much and it probably just came across as me belittling the “conservation area” which on the face of it only seems to be in effect for the things the council does or does not want. Eg: the street art on the shutters as part of Syd arts fest, the turdis in station approach - all okay. The Nando’s signage, the wall mural - not okay. Probably a very black and white point of view which oesnt tell the intricacies of the “conservation area” but alas those are the experiences/information for me regarding it.

JGD
Posts: 397
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Lewisham

Re: New Aldi approved in Bell Green

Post by JGD » 17 Dec 2018 23:08

JMLF wrote:The mural unfortunately ultimately petered out due to the “conservation area” which the station approach resides in. The council were shown the designs submitted for the vote and said they didn’t want any of them really and that it didn’t keep with the “conservation area”.
JMLF is being discrete here. His efforts were exceptional in trying to to keep this moving - even after the "conservation area" consideration began to play a part. He put an extraordinary amount of effort into how the mural could be progressed and how fund-raising was to be conducted.

He has quietly drawn a veil across SydSoc's rebuff of his efforts to secure their support. If you look at his earlier posts you will find his account of how he was advised that he could not expect any SydSoc support whilst the the society was focusing its efforts on the gas-holder issue.

For clarity Annabelle and Pat turned up at the first mural meeting and made clear that they had a project that enjoyed Network Rail support and that this was to paint a mural on the wall opposite the down platform within the station. On finding little support for that option at the meeting, they never attended another.

Again if you look at earlier posts you will find many technical reasons that make their preferred site less than feasible. Location, access and safety management considerations make the painting of a mural at their location costly in both resources and money - even if there was enough possession time available to deliver the painting work.

Annabelle has very recently re-iterated her desire to see the in-station mural site progressed. Neither Annabelle nor Pat have made any realistic comment about "how" their option was to be delivered nor at at what price and how the funding for the higher costs was to be secured.

TredownMan
Posts: 147
Joined: 28 Sep 2017 15:38
Location: Sydenham

Re: New Aldi approved in Bell Green

Post by TredownMan » 19 Dec 2018 06:55

How sad. Is there a link between Syd Soc’s stance on the mural and the council’s opposition, or are they coincidental?

michael
Posts: 1247
Joined: 26 Sep 2006 12:56
Location: Forest Hill

Re: New Aldi approved in Bell Green

Post by michael » 19 Dec 2018 08:44

The mural unfortunately ultimately petered out due to the “conservation area” which the station approach resides in.
I'm not sure about that. There is a rule relating to conservation areas with article 4 direction that exterior painting is not allow, but it only seems to apply to residential properties, so painting the exterior of other walls would be permitted.

As long as permission from the owner of the property is sought, there is nothing unlawful about a mural around the station area. Some people/councils may not wish to support a mural in certain locations within a conservation area, but they can't stop others from going ahead - if they have the permission of the owner of the wall.

JMLF
Posts: 524
Joined: 12 Dec 2013 19:41
Location: United Kingdom

Re: New Aldi approved in Bell Green

Post by JMLF » 19 Dec 2018 09:03

I did enquire about this - not quite in as succinct terms but although I had full backing and approval of the owners of the wall (Network rail and their affiliates), I was told by the council that as it lays within the conservation area essentially it would be very unlikely to happen/get through the process etc (again, the way they explained/worded that “we would not like any of the designs on the wall, maybe at a push this one” (or something very much to that affect) it went against the whole premise of the scheme and from the info given by the correct people I didn’t want to waste people’s time and efforts (especially artists) in producing thing that were never going to realistically become reality.

michael
Posts: 1247
Joined: 26 Sep 2006 12:56
Location: Forest Hill

Re: New Aldi approved in Bell Green

Post by michael » 19 Dec 2018 09:15

I'm not sure what 'the process' would be - I don't think it would be the planning process unless you were painting on residential buildings or using illumination. Getting funding from council sources might be a different matter if they don't like your design but other sources of funding can always be found.

JGD
Posts: 397
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Lewisham

Re: New Aldi approved in Bell Green

Post by JGD » 19 Dec 2018 11:45

michael wrote:I'm not sure what 'the process' would be - I don't think it would be the planning process unless you were painting on residential buildings or using illumination. Getting funding from council sources might be a different matter if they don't like your design but other sources of funding can always be found.
There was no proposal to seek council funding.

The question of what "the process" would be in relationship to the conservation area, can only be answered by council officers. But write and make their requirements clear - they certainly did.

The Forest Hill mural was not subject to such scrutiny or intervention by the authority.

But there I go again - expecting consistency from Lewisham planners.

JRobinson
Posts: 1102
Joined: 5 Jan 2010 12:40
Location: De Frene Rd

Re: New Aldi approved in Bell Green

Post by JRobinson » 19 Dec 2018 15:53

The Forest Hill Mural - if I'm not mistaken, was on the bridge under the railway, yes?
that road is the south circular, and is TfL road, so road owner - TfL, Bridge owner - Network Rail - therefore actually nothing to do with Lewisham at all, at the end of the day, they had little ability to say no.

JGD
Posts: 397
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Lewisham

Re: New Aldi approved in Bell Green

Post by JGD » 19 Dec 2018 16:46

JRobinson wrote:that road is the south circular, and is TfL road, so road owner - TfL, Bridge owner - Network Rail - therefore actually nothing to do with Lewisham at all
In the case of the Forest Hill mural and for reasons that are not clear, the bridge and a small area on the other side of the road passing under the bridge were added to the Forest Hill Conservation Area Extensions adjudicated in 2010 and published in 2011.

So the comparison being made on here between the two sites and the actions taken by the Council was in their location's relationships to being in or near a Conservation Area. Simply - if the planners deemed that there was a Conservation Area issue applicable to the Sydenham proposal, why did the same principle not apply to Forest Hill ?

And it is undoubtedly accurate to state that JMLF received correspondence from council planners raising the issue of Conservation Area matters about the Sydenham proposal.

Not so much to do with the management of the road or site ownership issues.
Last edited by JGD on 19 Dec 2018 16:56, edited 1 time in total.

JMLF
Posts: 524
Joined: 12 Dec 2013 19:41
Location: United Kingdom

Re: New Aldi approved in Bell Green

Post by JMLF » 19 Dec 2018 16:55

Not to stifle discussion etc but think a lot of this is retreading old ground and isn’t related to the title of the thread so might be good to bring it back to the title and those who wish to discuss the Aldi/Bell Green development?..

Post Reply