Knighton Park Road

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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by admin » 3 Apr 2019 12:42

John,
A CPZ is a controlled parking zone. At a simple level, if you were trying to stop commuters (probably not in KPR from what you've said about Hexagon?) you could just have no parking except residents from 11-2 each weekday. That might work for Hexagon too?
Someone who parked outside those hours would be fined unless they were a local resident of KPR.
admin

John H
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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by John H » 3 Apr 2019 15:25

admin wrote:
3 Apr 2019 12:42
John,
A CPZ is a controlled parking zone. At a simple level, if you were trying to stop commuters (probably not in KPR from what you've said about Hexagon?) you could just have no parking except residents from 11-2 each weekday. That might work for Hexagon too?
Someone who parked outside those hours would be fined unless they were a local resident of KPR.
admin
Like Bromley where they have to fork out (again) for a permit. No thanks. The road is paid for... and has not been repaired in over 50 years.

stuart
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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by stuart » 4 Apr 2019 10:02

John H wrote:
3 Apr 2019 15:25
Like Bromley where they have to fork out (again) for a permit. No thanks. The road is paid for... and has not been repaired in over 50 years.
Indeed. Paid by everyone for the use of everyone. Is it not unreasonable to ask those who wish to have exclusive use of a sought after 100 sq ft plot to contribute a little back to the community?

A CPZ is the most practical way to get what you want. At a cost yes. Long term free parking in congested areas never produces a good result for everybody. A quandary for you.

Stuart

John H
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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by John H » 6 Apr 2019 07:05

stuart wrote:
4 Apr 2019 10:02
John H wrote:
3 Apr 2019 15:25
Like Bromley where they have to fork out (again) for a permit. No thanks. The road is paid for... and has not been repaired in over 50 years.
Indeed. Paid by everyone for the use of everyone. Is it not unreasonable to ask those who wish to have exclusive use of a sought after 100 sq ft plot to contribute a little back to the community?

A CPZ is the most practical way to get what you want. At a cost yes. Long term free parking in congested areas never produces a good result for everybody. A quandary for you.

Stuart
It is very unreasonable given we have already paid. The road in front of my house was paid for by Road charges applied many decades ago. Every year I pay Council Tax (previously Rates and Community Charge) to cover the cost of its maintenance. (Not a halfpenny has been spent on it for 50 years or more). Then there is vehicle excise duty and petrol duty etc. etc. etc. How many more times must we pay for the same thing?

The answer is to restrict access to the street and thus discourage casual parking and rat running.

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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by stuart » 6 Apr 2019 10:37

But John, I have paid too. So why should you have priority over me?

Pay something extra back to the community and you may have a case. Otherwise are you not exploiting me by semi-permanently taking o piece of public space for your exclusive use?

Stuart

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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by John H » 7 Apr 2019 18:25

stuart wrote:
6 Apr 2019 10:37
But John, I have paid too. So why should you have priority over me?

Pay something extra back to the community and you may have a case. Otherwise are you not exploiting me by semi-permanently taking o piece of public space for your exclusive use?

Stuart
You are venturing into very dangerous ground. Road charges are paid by the householder to enable the construction of the road outside a house. Therefore I have a greater right to that road than anyone else as you do to the road outside your house.

Most people do not realise the full cost of building the road is charged to the house when the house is built and each sale of the house, therefore, contains remuneration to the vendor for the cost of that road.

Then again... I may have a greater need of that road than you do.

JRW
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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by JRW » 8 Apr 2019 17:54

So where does that leave flat dwellers? :D

mosy
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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by mosy » 8 Apr 2019 18:37

John H wrote:
7 Apr 2019 18:25
...[clip]...
Most people do not realise the full cost of building the road is charged to the house when the house is built and each sale of the house, therefore, contains remuneration to the vendor for the cost of that road.
...[clip]...
Having once bought a house and presumably partly paid for the access road as you say, it is also the case that builders usually hope that the council will "adopt" such roads and thus take on the responsibility of maintaining them and services running beneath. If yours is not a private road having been adopted then the initial cost is no longer in the equation as it has become a public road and a free for all. If the council isn't maintaining a road, then I'm sure we'll all be cockahoop to hear that a handful of pennies has now been allocated by government to be scattered over the country's potholes.

Purchasers in the past when high density was not a problem - and new dwellers now - will inevitably suffer for as long as the council insists on a zero parking space yet high density housing policy, exacerbated here being on the boundary of a train pricing zone. And that's just parking and road repair.

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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by John H » 8 Apr 2019 22:53

mosy wrote:
8 Apr 2019 18:37
John H wrote:
7 Apr 2019 18:25
...[clip]...
Most people do not realise the full cost of building the road is charged to the house when the house is built and each sale of the house, therefore, contains remuneration to the vendor for the cost of that road.
...[clip]...
Having once bought a house and presumably partly paid for the access road as you say, it is also the case that builders usually hope that the council will "adopt" such roads and thus take on the responsibility of maintaining them and services running beneath. If yours is not a private road having been adopted then the initial cost is no longer in the equation as it has become a public road and a free for all. If the council isn't maintaining a road, then I'm sure we'll all be cockahoop to hear that a handful of pennies has now been allocated by government to be scattered over the country's potholes.

Purchasers in the past when high density was not a problem - and new dwellers now - will inevitably suffer for as long as the council insists on a zero parking space yet high density housing policy, exacerbated here being on the boundary of a train pricing zone. And that's just parking and road repair.
The adoption of the road is what the road charges pay for. It is the building of the road and compensation to the local authority for the anticipated cost of maintaining it.

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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by mosy » 9 Apr 2019 00:11

Yes, but it's not an ongoing annual charge that a householder pays for maintenance assuming the road is adopted, or at least the new house I bought where the road was adopted carried no such obligation. If you are paying annual road maintenance charges then it's outwith my sphere of knowledge as to why.

JRW
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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by JRW » 9 Apr 2019 06:21

Your concept of parking being 'owned' by house owners leaves tenants with no right to park, nor flat dwellers or social housing tenants. Gosh.

John H
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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by John H » 9 Apr 2019 12:39

mosy wrote:
9 Apr 2019 00:11
Yes, but it's not an ongoing annual charge that a householder pays for maintenance assuming the road is adopted, or at least the new house I bought where the road was adopted carried no such obligation. If you are paying annual road maintenance charges then it's outwith my sphere of knowledge as to why.
We pay Council Tax for that.

John H
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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by John H » 9 Apr 2019 12:49

JRW wrote:
9 Apr 2019 06:21
Your concept of parking being 'owned' by house owners leaves tenants with no right to park, nor flat dwellers or social housing tenants. Gosh.
How do you work that out? There is no mention of ownership of parking... merely mention of who paid for it to be there.

mosy
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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by mosy » 9 Apr 2019 13:04

John H wrote:
9 Apr 2019 12:39
mosy wrote:
9 Apr 2019 00:11
Yes, but it's not an ongoing annual charge that a householder pays for maintenance assuming the road is adopted, or at least the new house I bought where the road was adopted carried no such obligation. If you are paying annual road maintenance charges then it's outwith my sphere of knowledge as to why.
We pay Council Tax for that.
Then back to Stuart's and others' point I'm afraid that everyone pays council tax and legally has an equal right to use any road (unless officially designated otherwise).

Your original query was why Hexagon cars weren't using Girton Road car park. It could be that they are private cars of employees rather than company cars. If cars are actually marked as Hexagon's, maybe you could take up the planning restriction with your MP if deaf ears elsewhere.

Sydenham Syd
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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by Sydenham Syd » 9 Apr 2019 20:35

I would like to know who has priority on the high street then? If the flats above and the retail units below helped pay for it, how dare anyone have a greater right to use it? Scandalous :wink:

Also, I have lived in KPR for quite a few years, and there really isn’t a problem.

John H
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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by John H » 10 Apr 2019 08:56

mosy wrote:
9 Apr 2019 13:04
John H wrote:
9 Apr 2019 12:39
mosy wrote:
9 Apr 2019 00:11
Yes, but it's not an ongoing annual charge that a householder pays for maintenance assuming the road is adopted, or at least the new house I bought where the road was adopted carried no such obligation. If you are paying annual road maintenance charges then it's outwith my sphere of knowledge as to why.
We pay Council Tax for that.
Then back to Stuart's and others' point I'm afraid that everyone pays council tax and legally has an equal right to use any road (unless officially designated otherwise).

Your original query was why Hexagon cars weren't using Girton Road car park. It could be that they are private cars of employees rather than company cars. If cars are actually marked as Hexagon's, maybe you could take up the planning restriction with your MP if deaf ears elsewhere.
There is a planning restriction requiring people attending Hexagon for any purpose NOT to park in Knighton Park Road. While clearly impossible to enforce it is a condition and Hexagon make no attempt to comply.

No. There is a clear difference between everyone who pays council tax and those who pay council tax and have paid road charges to enable access to their premises. That is what road charges are for and the existence of road charges indicates a greater right.

John H
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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by John H » 10 Apr 2019 08:59

Sydenham Syd wrote:
9 Apr 2019 20:35
I would like to know who has priority on the high street then? If the flats above and the retail units below helped pay for it, how dare anyone have a greater right to use it? Scandalous :wink:

Also, I have lived in KPR for quite a few years, and there really isn’t a problem.
I have lived in KPR for 33 years and yes there is a problem. However it is not one that will be solved by increasing the cost of living here by imposing parking charges.

carty
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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by carty » 10 Apr 2019 14:43

John H - please tell me you are just jesting? You surely cant be for real?

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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by stuart » 10 Apr 2019 14:49

All this is very exciting and interesting. But getting back to the original question to John. What other practical solution do you have other than a CPZ?

Free for all or pay for priority. Which do you and your neighbours want?

Stuart

John H
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Re: Knighton Park Road

Post by John H » 12 Apr 2019 14:17

I already posted my solution.

For those who think there is no problem... it is outside my house where the fisticuffs generally happen along with the regular collisions.

On average there is a collision once a fortnight. The screaming of abuse and fisticuffs are about as frequent.

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