OLSPN Redevelopment

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JRW
Posts: 346
Joined: 18 Jun 2015 15:01

OLSPN Redevelopment

Post by JRW » 7 Jul 2019 21:55

Tomorrow night, Monday 8 July at 7.30,
OLSPN redevelopment public meeting:
Lewisham is holding a local planning meeting chaired by Cllr Tom Copley, where you can ask the developers questions about planning breaches at St Philip Neri slchool redevelopment. On Wednesday, the unanimous motion objecting to Lewisham's reluctance to enforce, made at the Sydenham Assembly, is being considered by the Mayor and Cabinet. Tomorrow is your chance to give your views, and create a.better environment for the pupils.


Pat Trembath
Posts: 613
Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54

Re: Tomorrow's OLSPN planning meeting URGENT

Post by Pat Trembath » 8 Jul 2019 12:19

Local meeting at
Our Lady & St Philip Neri School

Monday July 8 at 7.30pm in the Hall at
Our Lady & St Philip Neri school
208 Sydenham Road SE26 5SE

Lewisham’s Planning Department has arranged a local meeting to discuss the school’s current ‘minor variations’ application which is being considered by the Council. This application seeks approval for a number of variations from the original planning permission including:

· Alterations to the materials

· Alterations to the windows

· Alterations to the siting of the building and its height

· Alterations to the nursery entrance

· Planting on the corner of Sydenham Road & Fairlawn Park

Most importantly not being discussed is what happened to the conditions regarding improvements to Home Park, as some of the conditions to the original approval including the AGREED Main Entrance? Has anyone seen any improvements - paths, lighting and fewer cars delivering children to the Winchfield Road entrance? There are many questions that need answers about why so many conditions have not been complied with.

The meeting will be chaired by Cllr Tom Copley. It will be in a ‘question and answer’ format and will include the applicants and planning officers.
Please attend and share your concerns.

TredownMan
Posts: 155
Joined: 28 Sep 2017 15:38
Location: Sydenham

Re: Tomorrow's OLSPN planning meeting URGENT

Post by TredownMan » 9 Jul 2019 20:19

Were the world war two bombs we were warned about raised at the meeting?

carty
Posts: 18
Joined: 21 Mar 2019 18:00

Re: Tomorrow's OLSPN planning meeting URGENT

Post by carty » 10 Jul 2019 06:52

Sydenham Society have been vocal on OLSPN, I just hope that they now shared their thoughts on all the other planning applications that they veto/support before a decision is made !

Jollylolly
Posts: 87
Joined: 8 Nov 2015 12:28

Re: Tomorrow's OLSPN planning meeting URGENT

Post by Jollylolly » 11 Jul 2019 04:21

The meeting was quite heated and the chair was biased towards Syd Soc members and objectors, even though technically they were in the minority. The contamination issues were pretty much quashed but Syd Soc still not sure due to documentation not being publicly available. The works to continue the project are now not able to carry on this summer, meaning I have another year of looking at a building site and children another year of an unfinished school. It is going to be addressed again at the assembly in August. It was good to see some residents who, like me, are tired of the delays.

JRW
Posts: 346
Joined: 18 Jun 2015 15:01

OLSPN planning meeting 10 July

Post by JRW » 24 Jul 2019 06:49

DC/19/11193: Our Lady and St Philip Neri RC Primary School, 208 Sydenham Road, SE26
5SE
Local Meeting Note 8th July 2019
Chair: Councillor Copley

Officers: Chris Dale (Service Group Manager Development Manager), James Hughes
(Development Management Team Leader – South Area) and Georgia McBirney (Planning
Officer)

Applicants: Richard Pell (FTT), Steven Morrice (Marwood), Sean McGrath (Indigo) and
Matthew Ringman (Head teacher)

Number of attendees:

Presentation
Councillor Copley gave a short introduction to the local meeting explaining the format of the
meeting and that meeting would finish at 9pm. Councillor Copley also explained that the
application would be determined by a planning committee.

The applicant team presented the proposed development. Sean McGrath explained that
current application (DC/19/111793) is a minor material amendment to application
DC/16/096041 which was approved in 2016, and this arose due to issues with practicality
and build-ability of the approved scheme.
Richard Pell presented the differences between the consented scheme (DC/16/096041) and
the proposed amendments on each elevation in turn.
Matthew Ringman the Head teacher of the school explained that the school staff would like
the project to be finished as soon as possible for the sake of the children who attend the
school.

Q & A
Councillor Copley invited questions and comments from the audience.
Q: Question, A: Answer and S: Statement

Q: A local resident asked what will happen with the tarmac.
A: The applicant team stated that the playground would be tarmacked and that this is the
same as previously proposed.

Q: A local resident stated that objectors are concerned for the safety of the children
attending the school and that they were in favour if supporting the original scheme but are
concerned that what has been delivered is not what was approved (DC/16/096041) and the
safety concerns are in relation to contamination and asbestos.
A: The applicant team stated that Part A of the land remediation condition has been
discharged, that Part B of this condition is only required to be discharged if something else
was found which is different to what was stated in Part A and that Part C of the land
remediation condition can only be discharged once the scheme has been completed.
James Hughes outlined that Part A has been discharged but stated that this should have
been discharged prior to the occupation of the building.

Q: A local resident asked whether blinds would be added to the windows.
A: The applicant team stated that blinds would be added internally to the windows.

Q: A local resident asked for clarification of the material of the fins to the hall building.
A: The applicant team stated that consented scheme (DC/16/096041) was approved with
timber fins and that these are proposed to be replaced by steel fins for fire safety concerns
and due to the durability of the material.
Q: A local resident asked what the noise impact would be of the metal fins as the metal fins
could reflect noise more than timber fins.
A: The applicant team stated that the fins would not be the boundary between the rooftop
playground and the fins as an internal fence is proposed between so the children would not
be able to touch the fins. The applicant team also stated that they do not think in terms of
reflecting noise there would be a difference between timber and steel fins.
Q: A local resident raised concerns that the Home Park entrance is not being used as the
main entrance the school.

A: Matthew Ringmore, the Head Teacher of the school stated that the Home Park entrance
is used as the main entrance but due to safeguarding any visitors to the school use the
entrance on Sydenham Road and that the Sydenham Road entrance is used by the children
when they leave after-school clubs.
Q: Councillor Copley asked when the improvements to Home Park would be completed.
A: The applicant team stated that the works to Home Park would be completed this summer.
Q: A local resident raised concern in regards to the safety of the site due to issues with the
land remediation condition.
A: James Hughes outlined that the closure report would need to be signed off by
Environmental Health. James Hughes also advised that the Council’s CYP department had
visited the site and have said the site is safe.

Q: A local resident raised concern that the applicant team are rushing to get things
completed and it is unclear if all the relevant sign offs have been granted in regards to
environmental health and asbestos.
A: The applicant team stated that there is misunderstanding with local residents and that full
asbestos report was undertaken and signed off. Asbestos was found in the roof and in the
boiler room but was disposed of correctly.
Q: A local resident asked why were children on the site when the old school was
demolished, if asbestos was found in the building.
A: The applicant team stated that minimal levels of asbestos was found and that HSE were
on site during the works.

Q: A local resident stated that in regards to asbestos concerns that reassurance to
neighbours during these works would have been helpful as there was a lack on consultation
in regards to this.
A: The applicant team stated that this could be have been improved.

Q: A representative from the Sydenham Society outlined that the society did not object to the
original application, but are of the view that a new full planning application should be
submitted so that consultation takes place, the Home Park entrance is appreciated but the
works to Home Park should have been done before. The representative from the Sydenham
Society went onto outline that the proposed works are not minor and raised the following
concerns:
 The grey cladding is inappropriate
 London Stock brick would be more appropriate
 There is no light and shadow on the building
 The BREAAM rating has been reduced
 The applicants are treating the school and council with contempt
A: The applicant team stated that they do not know why the works to Home Park had
stopped and that the works to Home Park would be done this summer.
The applicant team stated they do not view the proposed scheme to massively different to
the consented scheme. The applicant team went on to state that on the original application
that all of the materials were secured by condition apart from the timber fins.

Q: A local resident stated that the material quality has been downgraded, the articulation has
been removed from the building and height of the building as shown in the street elevation is
misleading.
A: The applicant team stated that the building is the minimum height is needs to be to
comply with the standards for educational buildings.

Q: A local resident stated they are not against school facilities, but the quality of what has
been built is not acceptable, the building is ugly and the windows are too large.
A: The applicant team stated the concerns raised are concerns with the original application.

Q: A local resident stated that the building is too large, has a harmful visual appearance, and
that the building would not have been acceptable in a Conservation Area so why is it
acceptable in Lower Sydenham.
A: The applicant team stated that some of these concerns are with the original scheme
which has permission.

S: A local resident and parent of a child at the school stated that it needs to be remembered
that the building is a school and it needs to be fully working for the sake of the children and
staff of the school.

Q: A local resident stated that the building has no character and it does not enhance the
area and also highlighted that the issue with the Home Park entrance is that it does not look
like the main entrance. A date needs to be put on the Home Park conditions for the school
and for residents.
A: James Hughes stated that the applicants are still required to comply with the Home Park
condition.

Q: A local resident and parent of a child at the school stated that it is not the most attractive
building but it is not the ugliest building and asked when it is likely to be finished.
A: James Hughes outlined the Section 73 process.

S: A parent of a child at the school stated that the children of the school do not have a play
area, the process should be brought to a close , and the children’s voices should be heard
as the length of time is not fair on the children.

S: A parent of a child at the school stated that they acknowledge that it is not the most
beautiful building but it is not that different from what was approved, questions on safety are
valid but cosmetic concerns are not fair on the children. It is not fair that the school has been
a building site since it opened.

Q: A local resident asked what are the long term implications of accepting a Section 73
application as this will set a precedent for other developers.
A: Councillor Copley stated that the proposal will be assessed on its merit and will be
assessed against policy. Councillor Copley confirmed that the application will be determined
by a planning committee.

Q: A local resident stated that the scope of the works to Home Park needs to be clear.
A: The applicant team stated that works to Home Park have already been approved and the
works are not to the whole park.

Q: A local resident stated they are not against the school but the quality of the design is not
acceptable and asked if a representative from the Diocese is at the meeting.
A: Simon Hughes, a representative from the Diocese who was sat in the audience, stated
they are trying to rectify the situation and apologised for the delays.

S: A school governor stated that originally the Education Department of the Council were
involved in the original scheme and the project was taken over by the Diocese due to
funding.

S: A local resident stated that the fault cannot be placed on the previous architects if Built Off
site were submitting applications a few months after the consent and the drawings are dated
prior to the submission of the original application.

Q: A parent of a child of the school asked what the chances of the works being completed
before September.
A: The applicant team stated that decision will not be made in time to the works will have be
completed next summer.

Councillor Copley closed the meeting at 9pm.

Growsydenham
Posts: 97
Joined: 27 Jan 2018 09:23
Location: sydenham

Re: Tomorrow's OLSPN planning meeting URGENT

Post by Growsydenham » 25 Jul 2019 08:57

Thanks for posting this JRW. It’s a clear demolition of the campaign against this school.

Campaigners said that health and safety processes and sign-offs hadn’t been done properly. They had.

Campaigners said children were at risk of asbestos and contamination. They weren’t.

Campaigners said the park gate wasn’t being used. It is.

Parents are right to be angry, especially after the poster campaign.

carty
Posts: 18
Joined: 21 Mar 2019 18:00

Re: Tomorrow's OLSPN planning meeting URGENT

Post by carty » 25 Jul 2019 10:00

Well said, Growsydenham!

The abuse the School has been subjected too is awful.

stuart
Posts: 3170
Joined: 21 Sep 2004 10:13
Location: Lawrie Park
Contact:

Re: Tomorrow's OLSPN planning meeting URGENT

Post by stuart » 25 Jul 2019 13:28

So would a fair summary would be to say:

A good campaign to mitigate the departure from design concept and planning approval has been partly sabotaged by some making unevidenced and wrong accusations about those who have to occupy it and in fixing it. Alienating people who should have been allies.

I trust lessons have been learnt and the appropriate disassociations are being made.

Stuart

JRW
Posts: 346
Joined: 18 Jun 2015 15:01

Re: Tomorrow's OLSPN planning meeting URGENT

Post by JRW » 25 Jul 2019 14:20

From the 12 July Mayor and Cabinet meeting, officers' report:

'The Minor Materials Ammendment planning application is targeted to be heard at Planning Committee in late July or August 2019. A summary of the planning Local Meeting programmed for 8th July will be provided to committee members as an appendix to the eventual committee report.'
Full text for the report is online at
http://councilmeetings.lewisham.gov.uk/ ... t.pdf?T=10

The minutes of the M&C meeting are still not online, over two weeks after the event. When they come online, I will post a link. The meeting was also filmed as a trial of the official webcast. The webcast programme is not going live until September, but at yesterday's Council meeting, the Sydenham Society were promised a copy of the OLSPN section, so we can play it at the next Sydenham Assembly if desired. In the meanwhile, we are happy to show our own video of the meeting to anyone who is interested.

Growsydenham
Posts: 97
Joined: 27 Jan 2018 09:23
Location: sydenham

Re: Tomorrow's OLSPN planning meeting URGENT

Post by Growsydenham » 25 Jul 2019 16:23

The campaign claimed children were at risk of asbestos. It appears this was on the basis of wild guess-work and/or a misreading of the paperwork. The council have said this just wasn't true. It's amazing anyone thinks this is a good strategy or a decent way to behave towards their neighbours.

JRW
Posts: 346
Joined: 18 Jun 2015 15:01

Re: OLSPN Redevelopment

Post by JRW » 26 Jul 2019 15:32

DRAFT MINUTES OF THE MAYOR AND CABINET
Wednesday, 10 July 2019 at 6.30 pm

PRESENT: Damien Egan (Mayor), Chris Best, Chris Barnham, Paul Bell, Kevin Bonavia,
Joe Dromey, Brenda Dacres, Amanda De Ryk and Jonathan Slater.
ALSO PRESENT: Councillor Tom Copley.
Apologies for absence were received from Councillor Andre Bourne and Councillor Joani
Reid.

98. Declaration of Interests
None were made.

99. Minutes
RESOLVED that the minutes of the meeting held on June 26 2019 be
confirmed and signed as a correct record.

100. Matters Raised by Scrutiny and other Constitutional Bodies
Response to Sydenham Society on Our Lady and St Philip Neri School
The submission that had unanimously been agreed by the Sydenham
Assembly was introduced by Annabel McLaren, the Chair of the Sydenham
Society. She tabled a document setting out the Society’s concerns relating to
the breach of the original planning conditions and called for the drawing up of
a separate legal document which ensures that required works were urgently
completed. She was supported by Julia Webb who agreed that it was
important that a solution was agreed which ensured the school buildings
reached completion. They suggested that the developers preference for re-
cladding of the building with grey pebbledash should be replaced with panels
faced with slips of London stock brick.

The Director of Planning, Emma Talbot introduced the suggested response
report and confirmed a minor material amendment application was likely to be
considered by a Planning Committee in August. She indicated that in parallel
the authority reserved the right to retain an option for enforcement action.

Dr Hughes, Director of Education, responded on behalf of the Education
Commission of the Archdiocese of Southwark. He stated two public meetings
had strongly supported the application and he claimed the views of the
Sydenham Society were not representative of the wider community. He said
legal advice given to him suggested the minor material amendment
application would bring the building back into line with the original application
and that there was no need for a full application. He claimed the original
scheme was as drawn up by the Borough Architects, but Councillor Bell
pointed out the authority did not have an architects section. Dr Hughes
confirmed Home Park was already the school’s main entrance.

Councillor Paul Bell expressed shock at the apparent belligerent stance
adopted by the Commission. He wondered why no apology had been given
when it was clear the building was not in line with the original planning
consent.

Sean McGrath, a Planning consultant for the Education Commission
explained the original consent had not proved buildable and the failure to
identify a safe asbestos free decant option had meant children were on site
during the building process which was a considerable complicating factor. He
said a full apology for the applicant’s failings had been given at a public
meeting in January. He said the Commission were striving to get back to the
original scheme and pointed out London stock bricks had never been
consented with cladding always being intended. In answer to a query from
Councillor Best as to why the cladding promised by architects Pollard Thomas
Edwards had not been delivered, Mr McGrath said the cladding had not been
completed as works had been suspended until the planning situation could be
rectified.

The Director of Planning stated she believed the Commission’s response
misrepresented legitimate community concerns and that in her opinion the
cladding currently visible on site was unacceptable. She acknowledged some
representations supporting the school had been received.

Local Ward Councillor Tom Copley said he had chaired the Sydenham
Assembly meeting where the reference had been unanimously agreed and he
believed the scheme’s critics were not a small minority of the community.

Councillor Chris Best expressed her severe disappointment with the
implementation of the scheme and indicated her support for the views
emanating from the Sydenham Society.

The Mayor concluded by thanking the Sydenham Assembly and the
Sydenham Society for highlighting this case. He hoped the Commission was
hearing the message that their conduct had been unacceptable and their
response to valid criticisms was very disappointing. He urged the Commission
to engage the wider community in the delivery of an acceptable solution

Having considered an officer report, and a presentations by the Sydenham
Society, the Education Commission of the Archdiocese of Southwark, Ward
Councillors and the Director of Planning, the Mayor and Cabinet

RESOLVED that the contents of the response be approved and reported back
to the Sydenham Assembly.

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