BELL GREEN GASWORKS SITE
MONDAY 16 MAY 4PM - 8PM LIVESEY HALL, BELL GREEN
There is a "drop-in" this evening at the Livesey Hall and the developers will be available, as will be the plans, for the redevlopment of the remaining part of the gasworks site.
This will include 156 housing units and the construction of a massive Homebase and garden centre together with other large retail and industrial and business units and a dri-thru restaurant.
If approved, this will result in a predicted 10% extra traffic through Sydenham Road and 13% in Perry Rise at peak times. A further 600 parking spaces will mean that, with the savacentre car park there will be FREE car parking for 1700 cars.
Our local high street retailers, already under pressure, will have a big struggle ahead gainst this competition.
Sydenham Society understands theat Lewisham hopes to put this application before its Strategic Planning Committee on 16 June.
Bell Green
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GLOBAL THINKER
- Posts: 177
- Joined: 2 Nov 2004 13:20
- Location: SYDENHAM
Thanks Pat,
I will be going along tonight to have a nosey. My question is what steps are local retailers taking to ensure that they keep customers coming thru their doors??. I have lived here for nearly five years and the only indication I get that a new shop is opening is when I look at this website or when a new pizza delivery company posts their menu thru my door. The only positive thing I have received recently is the new pub which opened in Forest Hill!! If they can do it why can't the shopowners of Sydenham High Road? Please correct my if I am wrong but are they working closely with the Sydenham Society/Lewisham Council to ensure they stay open. I'd be curious to find out. Still a new retail park and drive thru are not what is needed, they are enough take away shops in the high road to please even the most ardent fast food fanatic. Advertising your business is a fundamental element of any concern, and if the shopowners of Sydenham are not concerned with this, are they concerned about getting and keeping new customers?
I will be going along tonight to have a nosey. My question is what steps are local retailers taking to ensure that they keep customers coming thru their doors??. I have lived here for nearly five years and the only indication I get that a new shop is opening is when I look at this website or when a new pizza delivery company posts their menu thru my door. The only positive thing I have received recently is the new pub which opened in Forest Hill!! If they can do it why can't the shopowners of Sydenham High Road? Please correct my if I am wrong but are they working closely with the Sydenham Society/Lewisham Council to ensure they stay open. I'd be curious to find out. Still a new retail park and drive thru are not what is needed, they are enough take away shops in the high road to please even the most ardent fast food fanatic. Advertising your business is a fundamental element of any concern, and if the shopowners of Sydenham are not concerned with this, are they concerned about getting and keeping new customers?
a n other Homebase?
I'm not aversed to a bit of DIY, (not quite sure if that reads right), but _another_ Homebase (or anyother DIY store)?
So, that's one in Penge - oakfield road, one at the Bromley end of southend lane, and now another at the Sydenham end of southend lane... (and there's Wicks in catford... the list goes on)
I must admit I was kind of hoping for something along the lines of a cinema / bowling alleys / leisure complex... Something to add to the social life within se26...
Long live the local family run DIY stores, still my first port of call.
So, that's one in Penge - oakfield road, one at the Bromley end of southend lane, and now another at the Sydenham end of southend lane... (and there's Wicks in catford... the list goes on)
I must admit I was kind of hoping for something along the lines of a cinema / bowling alleys / leisure complex... Something to add to the social life within se26...
Long live the local family run DIY stores, still my first port of call.
i agree dave, whenever i need anything at all of a DIY nature, i always use the shop at the top of the high street, Sydenham DIY i think its called. they are fantastic in there, can cut wood to any size, and even sell individual screws and nails. loads better than the big chain stores, and cheaper too.
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Muddy Waters
- Posts: 137
- Joined: 2 Oct 2004 17:05
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Pat Trembath
- Posts: 613
- Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54
Sydenham Society is planning a leaflet drop in and around Bell Green to raise awareness of this planning application and the likelihood that it will be going to a planning committee for a decision on 16 June. Anyone interested in helping please private message (PM) me.
Please provide me with your phone number and I will contact you later this afternoon
In any case comments/objections should be made to Glen Rollings, Planning Service, Lewisham Town Hall, Catford SE6 4RU by 31 May.
Please provide me with your phone number and I will contact you later this afternoon
In any case comments/objections should be made to Glen Rollings, Planning Service, Lewisham Town Hall, Catford SE6 4RU by 31 May.
Bell Green Development - My letter to Lewisham Planning
Dear Sirs (Lewisham Planning)
Bell Green Development – Sydenham
We are writing to you to express our concern and deep objection to the new development at Bell Green, Sydenham Phase 2 and 3.
Firstly we have just recently moved to the area and was horrified to learn that this development was being considered. As there is a Homebase within five minute drive or bus ride from the Sainsbury’s saver centre, we fail to see the value added to the life of local residents, of which we are one, should this development go ahead. All we can see is that traffic and pollution will increase dramatically, in a city that is already congested, it seems ludicrous to be adding to the problem.
We are also concerned with the effect to the local small business community. For too long, large corporate companies have been installing homogenous buildings with no soul, but large output to fill their coffers. The result of which is that people leave their local shops behind for the large convenience stores, without thought to cost, value or economic impact to the area. Local business will be hurt by this development, local business may have to close, and what will be the impact to Sydenham high street, empty buildings waiting to be abused as squats or vandalised, how will this effect the area and property prices and economic stability? I fail to see it helping anybody but Homebase and Sainsbury’s, two companies we’re sure will not collapse overnight if this development does not go ahead.
I would also stress my anger at yet another drive thru take away ”restaurant” being considered (probably McDonalds or Burger King). We live in a society that needs a celebrity chef to highlight the dangers of poor diets for our children, both at school and in the home, yet I am staggered that this council is considering allowing McDonald’s into the area, which is a pure Mecca to children. Children are bombarded with media advertising and are constantly pushing parents to take them there. Surely we should be setting example to London and the rest of the country by not building any more fast food “restaurants”
As you will tell from my letter we are totally opposed to this development and object to it both in part and full.
Yours sincerely
Graham Hall & Susan Carroll
Cc Sydenham Society
MP
Local Ward Councillor’s
Mayor
Bell Green Development – Sydenham
We are writing to you to express our concern and deep objection to the new development at Bell Green, Sydenham Phase 2 and 3.
Firstly we have just recently moved to the area and was horrified to learn that this development was being considered. As there is a Homebase within five minute drive or bus ride from the Sainsbury’s saver centre, we fail to see the value added to the life of local residents, of which we are one, should this development go ahead. All we can see is that traffic and pollution will increase dramatically, in a city that is already congested, it seems ludicrous to be adding to the problem.
We are also concerned with the effect to the local small business community. For too long, large corporate companies have been installing homogenous buildings with no soul, but large output to fill their coffers. The result of which is that people leave their local shops behind for the large convenience stores, without thought to cost, value or economic impact to the area. Local business will be hurt by this development, local business may have to close, and what will be the impact to Sydenham high street, empty buildings waiting to be abused as squats or vandalised, how will this effect the area and property prices and economic stability? I fail to see it helping anybody but Homebase and Sainsbury’s, two companies we’re sure will not collapse overnight if this development does not go ahead.
I would also stress my anger at yet another drive thru take away ”restaurant” being considered (probably McDonalds or Burger King). We live in a society that needs a celebrity chef to highlight the dangers of poor diets for our children, both at school and in the home, yet I am staggered that this council is considering allowing McDonald’s into the area, which is a pure Mecca to children. Children are bombarded with media advertising and are constantly pushing parents to take them there. Surely we should be setting example to London and the rest of the country by not building any more fast food “restaurants”
As you will tell from my letter we are totally opposed to this development and object to it both in part and full.
Yours sincerely
Graham Hall & Susan Carroll
Cc Sydenham Society
MP
Local Ward Councillor’s
Mayor
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Pat Trembath
- Posts: 613
- Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54
Thanks to Admin for a very good report on the Forum meeting on Thursday.
It looks very likely that the proposals for the enlarged Retail Park on Phase 2 of the site will be going to the Council's Strategic Planning Committee on Thrsday 16th June.
If approved this will mean at the Saturday peak period (with no apologies to anyone's eyes that glaze over where statistics are concerned) there will be an increase in traffic of:
11% on Sydenham Road
13.5% on Perry Rise
9.5% on Southend lane
9.4% on Perry Hill
16.7% on Bell Green
105% on the Spine Road
6.9% on Stanton Way (eastbound)
7.3% on Stanton Way (westbound)
These figures come from the documents supporting this application provided by British Gas' agents.
Free car parking spaces for retail purposes at Bell Green will rise from 1100 currently in the Savacentre car park to 1724 overall - an increase of over 50%.
Trade draw from Catford, Forest Hill and Sydenham Town centres will be £3m annually (again taken from supporting documents).
There was only one voice in favour of this development last Thursday. The majority could see how this Retail Park will radically change our local community, but not for the better.
I would urge anyone who has not already done so to write with their comments/objections to Planning Service, 5th Floor, Laurence House, Catford SE6 4RU as soon as possible. Easier still e-mail Planning@lewisham.gov.uk
It looks very likely that the proposals for the enlarged Retail Park on Phase 2 of the site will be going to the Council's Strategic Planning Committee on Thrsday 16th June.
If approved this will mean at the Saturday peak period (with no apologies to anyone's eyes that glaze over where statistics are concerned) there will be an increase in traffic of:
11% on Sydenham Road
13.5% on Perry Rise
9.5% on Southend lane
9.4% on Perry Hill
16.7% on Bell Green
105% on the Spine Road
6.9% on Stanton Way (eastbound)
7.3% on Stanton Way (westbound)
These figures come from the documents supporting this application provided by British Gas' agents.
Free car parking spaces for retail purposes at Bell Green will rise from 1100 currently in the Savacentre car park to 1724 overall - an increase of over 50%.
Trade draw from Catford, Forest Hill and Sydenham Town centres will be £3m annually (again taken from supporting documents).
There was only one voice in favour of this development last Thursday. The majority could see how this Retail Park will radically change our local community, but not for the better.
I would urge anyone who has not already done so to write with their comments/objections to Planning Service, 5th Floor, Laurence House, Catford SE6 4RU as soon as possible. Easier still e-mail Planning@lewisham.gov.uk
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Pat Trembath
- Posts: 613
- Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54
Bell Green decision day, today.
At Catford Town Hall tonight the Council's Strategic Planning Committee will decide the future of this out-of town site.
British Gas wants to develop the Phase 2 site for a large Homebase and Garden Centre, 3 additional warehouse sheds, some light indusrty and business units and a dri-thru restaurant. Plans for the Phase 3 site provide 156 housing units, one retail unit and a restaurant/cafe.
The plans also include free parking at Bell Green (including the Sainsbury's/Savacentre car park) for 1600 cars (10 times the size of the Girton Road car park.
The Committee will be meeting in Committee Rooms 1 & 2 at the Civic Suite tonight at 7.30 pm and members of the public can attend to observe the deliberations
At Catford Town Hall tonight the Council's Strategic Planning Committee will decide the future of this out-of town site.
British Gas wants to develop the Phase 2 site for a large Homebase and Garden Centre, 3 additional warehouse sheds, some light indusrty and business units and a dri-thru restaurant. Plans for the Phase 3 site provide 156 housing units, one retail unit and a restaurant/cafe.
The plans also include free parking at Bell Green (including the Sainsbury's/Savacentre car park) for 1600 cars (10 times the size of the Girton Road car park.
The Committee will be meeting in Committee Rooms 1 & 2 at the Civic Suite tonight at 7.30 pm and members of the public can attend to observe the deliberations
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Pat Trembath
- Posts: 613
- Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54
I have put a short report of the lively meeting at:
http://www.sydenham.org.uk/bell_green_planning.html
I'm sure others present will want to say a word....
http://www.sydenham.org.uk/bell_green_planning.html
I'm sure others present will want to say a word....
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Pat Trembath
- Posts: 613
- Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54
Stuart, I think your report is a very accurate one.
It was a breath of fresh air to hear one councillor, Mark Morris, say he could not vote to approve the Phase 2 application as it was like looking back to 1985 when out-of-town Retail Parks were the flavour of the times.
This indeed was about the time that original discussions first began between Lewisham and British Gas as to how to redevelop this site.
The original outline permission was finally agreed in February 1993 and this has bound us to retail as the main source of regeneration ever since, despite well documented studies that these out-of town Retail Parks have done enormous damage to local high streets throughout the length of this country. The phrase "Ghost Town Britain" comes directly from one of these studies.
It is now no longer government policy to approve out-of town retail parks like the one proposed for Bell Green
It was a shame to see 3 local councillors all saying that the annual Trade Draw of £0.5m from Forest Hill, £0.5m from Sydenham and £2m from Catford (from Castlemore's own figures, and likely to be the most favourable to them) would probably have little effect on the local town centres. The Sydenham Society cannot agree with their complacency.
The end of the meeting was indeed very shambolic and not a great spectacle for seeing democracy at work! The Chair had a duty to explain to those members of the public present why matters had happened and what would happen next. This, to his discredit, he failed to do.
Sydenham Society is obviously going to have a long think about last night's meeting and will, in due course, advise you of the outcome of its deliberations
It was a breath of fresh air to hear one councillor, Mark Morris, say he could not vote to approve the Phase 2 application as it was like looking back to 1985 when out-of-town Retail Parks were the flavour of the times.
This indeed was about the time that original discussions first began between Lewisham and British Gas as to how to redevelop this site.
The original outline permission was finally agreed in February 1993 and this has bound us to retail as the main source of regeneration ever since, despite well documented studies that these out-of town Retail Parks have done enormous damage to local high streets throughout the length of this country. The phrase "Ghost Town Britain" comes directly from one of these studies.
It is now no longer government policy to approve out-of town retail parks like the one proposed for Bell Green
It was a shame to see 3 local councillors all saying that the annual Trade Draw of £0.5m from Forest Hill, £0.5m from Sydenham and £2m from Catford (from Castlemore's own figures, and likely to be the most favourable to them) would probably have little effect on the local town centres. The Sydenham Society cannot agree with their complacency.
The end of the meeting was indeed very shambolic and not a great spectacle for seeing democracy at work! The Chair had a duty to explain to those members of the public present why matters had happened and what would happen next. This, to his discredit, he failed to do.
Sydenham Society is obviously going to have a long think about last night's meeting and will, in due course, advise you of the outcome of its deliberations
Pat - have you visited http://www.castlemore.co.uk/?
A very extensive description of their major developments as they featured in their presentation last night. But no mention of Bell Green at application or approved.
Curious...
A very extensive description of their major developments as they featured in their presentation last night. But no mention of Bell Green at application or approved.
Curious...
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Pat Trembath
- Posts: 613
- Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54
i dont really know about the proposed development.
i was against the development at the top of crystal palace park, as i was worried about the amount of traffic it would bring to the area (when i lived at the top of westwood hill). at the same time as bromley council wanted to build the multiplex, i wasnt against developing the site, i just wanted something which would add something to the area - given that we had an exhibition centre there prior - something cultural would have been nice.
with bell green, it is different. whilst another diy centre would not add much to the area, it would be better if those who were anti development, could at least give some sort of alternative (unless they think it better that the area stays as a wasteland).
let's face it, we live in London, which is ever expanding and all consuming.
i was against the development at the top of crystal palace park, as i was worried about the amount of traffic it would bring to the area (when i lived at the top of westwood hill). at the same time as bromley council wanted to build the multiplex, i wasnt against developing the site, i just wanted something which would add something to the area - given that we had an exhibition centre there prior - something cultural would have been nice.
with bell green, it is different. whilst another diy centre would not add much to the area, it would be better if those who were anti development, could at least give some sort of alternative (unless they think it better that the area stays as a wasteland).
let's face it, we live in London, which is ever expanding and all consuming.
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Pat Trembath
- Posts: 613
- Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54
Over the past 12 years Sydenham Society has suggested many options to the council for this large site.
Our preferred option was for business and industry - high technology, maybe a science park providing good quality, high paid jobs and training for local people - somewhere the children of the area could look to to provide jobs. The benefit being that public transport could be used to get to and from the site.
Other suggestions made by us include additional housing with some additional retail (but not large scale d-i-y) And in a borough with no cinema - why not a cinema?
Sydenham Society is anything by nimby - we want to see this site regenerated as much as the rest of local residents but it is a "key" development site and the wrong development, especially a Retail Park anchored by Homebase will, we believe, have a disastrous effect on local town centres and create heavy volumes of traffic going through the high street (or worse still rat-running through residential roads to avoid congestion)
Our preferred option was for business and industry - high technology, maybe a science park providing good quality, high paid jobs and training for local people - somewhere the children of the area could look to to provide jobs. The benefit being that public transport could be used to get to and from the site.
Other suggestions made by us include additional housing with some additional retail (but not large scale d-i-y) And in a borough with no cinema - why not a cinema?
Sydenham Society is anything by nimby - we want to see this site regenerated as much as the rest of local residents but it is a "key" development site and the wrong development, especially a Retail Park anchored by Homebase will, we believe, have a disastrous effect on local town centres and create heavy volumes of traffic going through the high street (or worse still rat-running through residential roads to avoid congestion)
The News Shopper has, at last, published its report on the "shambolic" meeting:
http://tinyurl.com/85uva
http://tinyurl.com/85uva
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Pat Trembath
- Posts: 613
- Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54
Tomorrow, Thursday 14 July at 7.30 pm at Catford Town Hall, the Bell Green Gasworks application for a large Homebase and garden centre with other retail warehousing (and car parking for 1600 plus cars) is back for further deliberation before the Council's Strategic Planning Committee. The meeting is open to the public.
It's not too late to make comments/objections - e-mail planning @lewisham.gov.uk
It's not too late to make comments/objections - e-mail planning @lewisham.gov.uk
To be totally honest (and I know this wont be a popular post) I think the existing plan is better than scrapping the whole thing. At least there will be some jobs / investment in the area and my personal opinion is that the only way the high street will improve is if some of the run down shops which are currently limping along finally get put out of their misery. A little competition doesnt do any harm.
Don't get me wrong - there are some excellent shops on the high street and I make a point of supporting them - the DIY shop, Milano, the Health shop and a few others are great but if the redevelopment in Bell Green puts some of the less desirable take aways and pound shops out of business, I for one won't be too upset.
Don't get me wrong - there are some excellent shops on the high street and I make a point of supporting them - the DIY shop, Milano, the Health shop and a few others are great but if the redevelopment in Bell Green puts some of the less desirable take aways and pound shops out of business, I for one won't be too upset.