I have noticed in the last few days that a small white van has been parked in Sydenham Road, in a half hour parking bay for anything up to 1 and a half hours. with no signs to say that motorist are being filmed apart from one battered speed camera sign which the driver cable ties to a lamp post well away from where he sits with his 3 metre high camera pole on the top of his van. which will no doubt lead to a fine for the unsuspecting motorist.
In Crystal palace camera's are used to issue tickets but there are many warning signs to that effect.
I am sure the council are acting illegally by not having the proper signage, any one out there with legal knowledge, as I cannot find out anything from the Town Hall
mobile cctv being used by Lewisham Council
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mick the carpet
- Posts: 2
- Joined: 25 Jan 2010 19:43
- Location: sydenham road
Bensonby, I asked where it was located not because I am a habitual speeder, but because I can't think of any part of Sydenham Road where it is possible to exceed 30 mph. Part of the detterent effect of cameras is that they are well signed so people look at their speed; this one doesn't appear to be.
Might not be a speed camera, could be licence plate/insurance camera check or a miscellaneous infringement or moving traffic violation catcher. Whether it might be a money maker or not I don't know. The borough of Lambeth has been taken to task re incorrect street furniture signage and road markings and "apparent" moving traffic violations on more than one occasion and vans should be marked. Hey ho. Maybe they're just surveying traffic or pedestrian movement?
I highly doubt it's a speed camera for reasons I shan't go into here.
It wasn't aimed at you Simon, I posted my reply at almost the same time as yours. It's just I really don't understand this hostility towards speed cameras; speeding is a Crome. Isn't it good if criminals are caught?
Do the objectors also object to plain clothes police officers?
It wasn't aimed at you Simon, I posted my reply at almost the same time as yours. It's just I really don't understand this hostility towards speed cameras; speeding is a Crome. Isn't it good if criminals are caught?
Do the objectors also object to plain clothes police officers?
In my view there's a difference between "It's a fair cop, Guv" and "It's a fit-up!" Plenty on the Net about incorrect or deliberately invisible signage (e.g. hidden behind trees), incorrect road markings (or lack of or misleading markings).
Also the presumption that people will pay the reduced price "pay in 14 days" fine, or send a letter of dispute (which some boroughs are thought to automatically reject) thus leaving only time and money consuming appeal to independent body to further dispute the fine. (Been there, done that - and won appeal after a borough fined 6000+ motorists in a month with a particular camera van.)
By the converse, the number of times I/others have almost been knocked down by speeding vehicles (or mobile phone users) on the crossing by the Greyhound...
Also the presumption that people will pay the reduced price "pay in 14 days" fine, or send a letter of dispute (which some boroughs are thought to automatically reject) thus leaving only time and money consuming appeal to independent body to further dispute the fine. (Been there, done that - and won appeal after a borough fined 6000+ motorists in a month with a particular camera van.)
By the converse, the number of times I/others have almost been knocked down by speeding vehicles (or mobile phone users) on the crossing by the Greyhound...
What on earth is going on with the Zebra at the railway bridge?
You are right to highlight it again mosy.
Now, yes it is poorly sited and of the many positive things about the SydRoad plans is to move it to opposite The Greyhound.
I can see why no enhancements will currently be made to it, after all, it'll be moved soon. BUT we've spent the whole Winter with the lights-out!
How on earth are drivers meant to see us when we cannot see even ourselves? Never mind the inclement weather.
Yes, the proles do not stop and drive using their mobiles but it's difficult enough for even considerate road-users to see us...
You are right to highlight it again mosy.
Now, yes it is poorly sited and of the many positive things about the SydRoad plans is to move it to opposite The Greyhound.
I can see why no enhancements will currently be made to it, after all, it'll be moved soon. BUT we've spent the whole Winter with the lights-out!
How on earth are drivers meant to see us when we cannot see even ourselves? Never mind the inclement weather.
Yes, the proles do not stop and drive using their mobiles but it's difficult enough for even considerate road-users to see us...
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mick the carpet
- Posts: 2
- Joined: 25 Jan 2010 19:43
- Location: sydenham road
I think it's great that you are told where speed cameras are and there are markings to tell you, plus most of them are bright yellow.
They do the job of making you slow down. In Australia they hide them in unmarked cars, so they don't act as a deterrent on dangerous bits of the road...they just generate revenue.
What is a joke is when they are placed at places where it's very easy to creep over the speed limit. Like the one on Westwood Hill that's on the downward slope. Now, this one isn't too bad, as it's highly visible and near the school (I think?) but I've seen some questionably placed cameras before.
They do the job of making you slow down. In Australia they hide them in unmarked cars, so they don't act as a deterrent on dangerous bits of the road...they just generate revenue.
What is a joke is when they are placed at places where it's very easy to creep over the speed limit. Like the one on Westwood Hill that's on the downward slope. Now, this one isn't too bad, as it's highly visible and near the school (I think?) but I've seen some questionably placed cameras before.
Which part of Australia are you from, Lambchop? Seems in Victoria at least, concealed cameras are achieving record low road death tolls http://www.theage.com.au/national/victo ... -lfqp.html.
Like Bensonby implied, why should anyone object to concealed speed cameras - unless of course they object to plain clothes police?
Like Bensonby implied, why should anyone object to concealed speed cameras - unless of course they object to plain clothes police?
But if there were plenty of hidden speed cameras then there would be a decent chance of getting caught wherever you went. As such, it wouldn't be worth speeding and people would slow down across the board.dickp wrote:eggs-actly.
Visible speed cameras give drivers the chance to correct their illegal behaviour - normally before a hazard. Hidden ones just punish them for their transgression.
Deterrence or retribution – entirely different ideas of what constitutes justice.
*drones on and on about sociology of law*
If speed cameras are hgihly visbile in publicised locations then drivers need only to slow down in a very specific area and not moderate their behaviour across the board.
of course there is. It's only a "fit up" if you are falsly accused or illegally enticed into committing an offence. Surely if you are caught speeding - by any means - then it is a "fair cop". You have committed a crime.mosy wrote:In my view there's a difference between "It's a fair cop, Guv" and "It's a fit-up!"
Lambchops
I used to work with another Victorian, a great guy, now back there, who used to tell me about speed camera policies there - and was highly supportive of the use of concealed cameras. As he said, you just didn't even think of speeding, because you didn't know if you'd get caught. Exactly what you would expect.
As is says among all the various points of view on this Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_en ... #Australia
I used to work with another Victorian, a great guy, now back there, who used to tell me about speed camera policies there - and was highly supportive of the use of concealed cameras. As he said, you just didn't even think of speeding, because you didn't know if you'd get caught. Exactly what you would expect.
As is says among all the various points of view on this Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_en ... #Australia
Dickp - you writeWith its intensive use of unsigned speed cameras and other measures Victoria has achieved record low road tolls in each of the past two years
Apart from being a bit bleeding heart liberal - how does 'plain clothes police don't give criminals the change to correct their illegal behaviour' sound to you? - can you imagine that if there was a policy of concealing speed cameras in this country drivers would not be aware of it?Visible speed cameras give drivers the chance to correct their illegal behaviour - normally before a hazard. Hidden ones just punish them for their transgression.
When linked average speed cameras are introduced, it will be interesting to see what happens.
Lets face it, everyone speeds, all of the time. Whether it's 34mph down Westow Hill, or 80 mph on the Sunday morning motorway, I bet every single driver speeds on every single journey at some point.
In future, will drivers be so fixated on their speedos, that they cause more crashes? I suspect they might.
P.S. I have a clean licence, always have.
Lets face it, everyone speeds, all of the time. Whether it's 34mph down Westow Hill, or 80 mph on the Sunday morning motorway, I bet every single driver speeds on every single journey at some point.
In future, will drivers be so fixated on their speedos, that they cause more crashes? I suspect they might.
P.S. I have a clean licence, always have.
i think you guys misunderstand me...i'm saying that i think marked speed cameras are better in many ways because they make drivers slow down on specific places in the road. i like to think research is done on accidents to work out where is a good place to stick one. i'm not saying that they do a better job overall on modifying driver behaviour.
the claim that having hidden cameras makes everyone slow down across the board is, in my opinion, a naive argument...but you guys might not know how they hide these cameras...well, how they hid them when i was back there. also, i beleive that bensonby doesn't hold a drivers license...so I suspect doesn't appreciate how easy it is to unintentionally speed.
they park a car on the side of the road and put the camera in front of it. most of the time, not all of the time, you can spot them if you are wary. a brand new holden on the side of the road is always suspect.
if you're on an open stretch of road with nothing parked on the side, then odds are you will push a little over the speed limit.
sometimes they have them in unmarked cars driving around, but they were pretty rare, and tended to ignore you if you were only going a little over the limit.
ideally, you'd combine the two. i think that would be an effective way of tackling the speed issue.
i like the average speed camera idea. i think this is pretty good.
it would help a lot more for the council to fill in some of these fecking pot holes!!
i think it's ok to excede the speed limit in some conditions. for example, there's nothing like the buzz of roaring past a school at about 3pm doing 60mph.
the claim that having hidden cameras makes everyone slow down across the board is, in my opinion, a naive argument...but you guys might not know how they hide these cameras...well, how they hid them when i was back there. also, i beleive that bensonby doesn't hold a drivers license...so I suspect doesn't appreciate how easy it is to unintentionally speed.
they park a car on the side of the road and put the camera in front of it. most of the time, not all of the time, you can spot them if you are wary. a brand new holden on the side of the road is always suspect.
if you're on an open stretch of road with nothing parked on the side, then odds are you will push a little over the speed limit.
sometimes they have them in unmarked cars driving around, but they were pretty rare, and tended to ignore you if you were only going a little over the limit.
ideally, you'd combine the two. i think that would be an effective way of tackling the speed issue.
i like the average speed camera idea. i think this is pretty good.
it would help a lot more for the council to fill in some of these fecking pot holes!!
i think it's ok to excede the speed limit in some conditions. for example, there's nothing like the buzz of roaring past a school at about 3pm doing 60mph.