WHAT IF THE CINEMA IN CRYSTAL PALACE

[leenewham]

This one took ages! And yes, CP isn't exactly Sydenham, but we support the cinema campaign: http://www.campaign.picture-palace.org/

The buildings currently in a really bad state and was visually corrupted by smokers cream and artificial blue paint (what were they thinking?) as you can see here:


BUT WHAT IF:


For more pictures and info go to:
http://www.whatifsydenham.wordrpress.com

[sydenhamboy]

You're a big tease. I'm loving your work but it's always tinged with a nagging disappointment when none of your brilliant ideas come to fruition. I'd love there to be a cool cinema in CP. And I'd love all of those ideas about shop fronts and facias in the high street to be taken on.

It's a bit like in Bullseye (slightly depressing Sunday evening gameshow popular in the late 1980s) catchphrase, 'Here's what you could have won', as the losing contestants were introduced to a caravan, or speedboat, or holiday for two in the Caribbean ... that they couldn't have. So off they trundled (back to Bolton/Wigan/Preston - delete as appropriate) with their £75 that was 'safe' muttering to Jim Bowen that they'd 'had a lovely day', although clearly secretly disappointed.

That's how I feel walking down Sydenham high street after salivating over one of your 'what ifs'.

Sorry, felt I had to unload.

But don't stop on my account

[leenewham]

Hi Sydenhamboy,

Don't fret. With the cinema I'm talking to City screen and the people behind the campaign who asked me to do it in the first place. It will be used in promotions and hopefully will contribute to the cause. If it doesn't it was a nice thing to do. There is great feedback on the Virtual Norwood forum.

We have also worked with Tratorria on their website among other things (we're rather proud of the toilet signs made out of spaghetti that my wife designed).

I've also talked to a number of local businesses who are all interested but so far no cigars. It's a question of money and motovation.

I worked on a presentation with Anthony about improving Home Park. Anthony started Friends of Home park and out of the initial 'what if's we dod for that we secured over £40,000 worth of funding to install an outdoor gym which has led to a lot of exciting improvements in Home park for the first time in ages (Anthony deserves most of the credit as his hard work made it happen, I just supplied some ideas, a presentation and images).

If you keep chipping away at the cliff face, eventually you end up with mount Rushmore. Unfortunately the cliff face seems harder than we initially thought but were getting there, little by little.

We have some more plans coming up which may, hopefully make a difference locally following developments I can't discuss in this forum!

[sydenhamboy]

Cheers for thoughtful reply Lee .. you have my full support. Keep 'em coming. I'll try not to get so emotionally involved next time.

[The Clown]

It would be useful to know how much money we are talking about for each business to bring their own "What if" dream to fruition.
It might encourage us to give them a bit more business too (even encourage donations to the cause, however small).

[leenewham]

Yes it would. I totally agree. It's not as easy as it seem though as each one is different. Just trying to get ballpark figures from shop fitters is near impossible and a lot of work. But I'm working on it in the little spare time I have.

What I really need is one business to do it, use it as a case study with testimonials and information oh how it helped their turnover.

You would have thought companies would have been falling over backwards to get work, but I get the impression I'd have more help speaking to companies in Latvia than here!

[leenewham]

By all means Sydenhamboy please DO get emotionally involved.

It needs people to give a sh*t. It needs people to talk about it to shop owners. It needs people to realize that people don't come to Sydenham Road to shop or eat out, that businesses are missing out because it is shabby.

We could do with a survey, I suggest Julie Sutch and Sydenham traders get together with other areas and town centre managers from East Dulwich, Penge, Crystal Palace an Forest Hill (and possibly Peckham) and share ideas, knowledge, draw up a survey for how and where people shop, if they go to one area and not another and why. All these areas can learn from one another. We shouldn't stop at the road improvements and say 'that's it', look at what we have done isn't it great. We need joined up thinking otherwise it will be millions of pounds of our money wasted when the new pavements are covered in gum and the bins have been hit by cars a few times and not replaced like they aren't currently.

I talk to a few business owners and a lot of them try really hard but some don't feel Sydenham has any future. I disagree, but we have to attract people onto the high street and currently that just isn't happening.

We seem to be going for the most expensive solutions. £50,000 for a mosaic not including painting the building when the most visible aspect of the high street are the bloody shops. If you don't improve the shops, you wont change the perception of the high street. It's the same anywhere, any town, anywhere in the UK.

We moved here because of the Dolphin, the talk of a deli (which ended up being the blue mountain cafe) and the Kirkdale Bookshop and the community feel Kirkdale books had (plus the passion surrounding the Greyhound). It really made us feel that here was a place that local people wanted to make better.

Now I'm getting emotionally involved!

[angela53]

I would also like to add my appreciation of your excellent ideas leenewham they are quite uplifting and inspirational - keep up the good work

[leenewham]

Thankyou.

[leenewham]

We got the cinema 'what if' featured on http://www.notcot.org.

I'm a huge fan of this site.

[love-sydenham]

Dear, leenewham,
It is so fantastic, to see someone so passion regarding the area they are living in and willing to improve it!
I am totally agree and share all your views regarding Sydenham, it has to become better!
Just 9 years ago, I didn't even know about it's existence, but then 8 years ago we moved here. All these plans and ideas, tv programs like (future new hot property spots, up and coming areas and stuff like that), train links, extensions, improvements of the high street, pocket squares, make you believe that all of that will happen, and it will get better.... So, 8 years later, it's got better, a bit, but not what I've expected it to be...

Therefore, I do think, that the residents of the area should be more keen and proactive, regarding the changes, as at the end of the day, that's where we are all coming back home from work!
And also, it would be nice to spend more weekends here too, to spend our money here, invest into our shops and restaurants, our local businesses!!!

There are so many areas I would like to improve, so many ideas...
Regards,
Love-sydenham

[Duke of Clarence]

News flash! KICC will not be appealing Bromley's decision not to allow the change of D2 use class for 25 Church Road. Here's the Picture Palace Campaign's response to today's news:

The Picture Palace campaign (PPC) is delighted to learn that the KICC does not intend to appeal and has finally acknowledged that the local wishes and views of 3500 residents who objected to the change of use application, and the views of Bromley, Croydon and Lambeth councils should be respected.

We also welcome KICC's further indication that the church is now considering a variety of building use options that will most benefit the whole community. We now expect KICC to follow up on this commitment by entering into meaningful dialogue which will lead to action which reflects the interests and concerns of the whole community, rather than a particular group.

The PPC wishes to work with KICC to find a mutually acceptable outcome but one which also clearly recognises that 25 Church Road should only be used for permissible activities which contribute to the cultural and economic regeneration of 25 Church Road and the town centre.

We hope that KICC will now respect the fact that the building's D2 classification will only allow for permissible uses such as a cinema, concert hall, bingo hall or casino, or dance hall.

Our ambition to develop a professional run cinema to provide a sorely needed cultural resource for the whole community is shared by others.

Almost 7,000 members of the local community signed our petition supporting our campaign which is also being followed by facebook groups with over 6,000 members from across the world.

The UK's leading independent cinema provider has confirmed interest in the site and we would hope that KICC will enter into discussions with them.

[Chazza]

If there are thousands of people out there, all wanting to see a cinema in Crystal Palace, why not put a business plan together, seek funding and make it happen?

[Duke of Clarence]

If there are thousands of people out there, all wanting to see a cinema in Crystal Palace, why not put a business plan together, seek funding and make it happen?

Let's see shall we; to begin with in these days of austerity which bank/broker would take a punt on loaning £3m+ to a community group with no experience of property development, the film industry or running a cinema? Secondly the church is a multimillion pound company and would have had the funds to outbid any community venture as indeed it did outbid a professional cinema operator with a business plan and £1.5m almost exactly one year ago. There are no other significant buildings in the area suitable for cinema conversion. The building is the only D2 use class in town. The church applied to turn the last D2 into the 18th D1 on the Triangle. The planners decreed that as well as the parking issues (the KICC congregation was coming from a massive catchment area South West London, Kent & Surrey)the vitality and vibrancy of the High Street would be at risk were it to loose it's only large entertainment venue and gain it's 18th church, although it would have made Church Road one of the most aptly named roads in the neighbourhood.

[Chazza]

It was more of a rhetorical question. Perhaps I should have been more explicit about that. Simply wishing for something won't make it happen; as you are obviously aware, it is necessary for someone to finance the venture and for someone with entrepreneurial skills to take a risk and set up a business. It's a start that the planners have rejected the church's proposed change of use; it would be nicer still if the powers that be would encourage a business to use the building for the purposes allowed by its D2 classification. You may get more mileage campaigning for the authorities to offer tax breaks for any prospective tenant.

The fact that there's no cinema in the area suggests that it's not commercially viable and that, no matter how many people sign the petition, not enough of them would regularly go to the cinema. Much as I'd love something more local, I think I'll be travelling to Brixton to see films for some time yet.

[Duke of Clarence]

O now I see where you were coming from now Chazza, it was more of a What If... question, doh! (That's what gets me with posts and emails and texts, so much is lost in translation...grumble, grumble, moan, moan). That aside I think the fact that there's not a cinema in the area points to a gap in the market not a lack of commercial viability. Were City Screens (Ritzy & Clapham & Greenwich Picture Houses) to, and this is a What If scenario, persuade the KICC to sell then I believe a cinema in CP would be a success. I, like you, have to travel to Brixton for my nearest independent cinema were there one in CP then I would use that rather than continue to travel to and from Brixton. I bet plenty of others would too. Having said that if there were a cinema in Sydenham I'd use that as opposed to The Ritzy. Now there's a thought, What If there was a cinema in Sydenham...

[The Commander]

Message from the Picture Palace Campaign

This week we have delivered almost 10,000 leaflets in the Crystal Palace area including Sydenham giving an update on the campaign and our fundraising events. The feedback has been great and there is still very strong support in the community across all age groups for a cinema in CP and especially at 25,Church Road. We may have been quiet but that doesn't mean we are not working hard. There is a lot going on behind the scenes and we hope to have further updates soon. We always knew that we could be in for the long haul, so please continue to support us. We are all part of the campaign. Be assured we are in close dialogue with City Screen and they remain very committed to bringing a cinema to Crystal Palace as are our local politicians across all the boroughs.

Below is the text of the newsletter for all you SE26 ers that might like to go to the cinema in Crystal Palace one day. That's if you don;t get your own first.

Hope to see some of you at our fundraising event at the Grape and Grain and our stall this Saturday. And, check out the fab Jane Shearman design eco bags at our website http://www.picture-palace.org. You could be a proud owner for a donation to the campaign.


Kingsway International Christian Centre (KICC) has confirmed that it will not be lodging an appeal against the planning decision taken on 17th December 2009 regarding the art deco cinema at 25 Church Road, Crystal Palace.

No appeal
On 17 June, the deadline for an appeal against Bromley council’s refusal to change the use of the building from leisure/entertainment to a place of worship, KICC issued a press release stating that it “does not wish to be seen as “fighting” the very community it wishes to serve and it is considering a variety of building use options that will most benefit the whole community within its existing planning use.”

The Picture Palace Campaign has responded positively but cautiously, encouraging KICC to enter into “meaningful dialogue which will lead to action which reflects the interests and concerns of the whole community, rather than a particular group, and to work with us to find a mutually acceptable outcome but one which also clearly recognises that 25 Church Road should only be used for permissible activities which contribute to the cultural and economic regeneration of the town centre and Church Road.”

We note the building’s D2 classification allows only leisure use. We urged KICC to contact City Screen, UK's leading independent cinema provider, to bring back a cinema to 25 Church Road. To read more, visit http://www.picture-palace.org.

Is this good news?
Yes! Together we have prevented the loss of the only large D2 leisure building in Crystal Palace and we do not have to fight an appeal over the coming months. Think back to where we were 12 months ago and celebrate!

But, what does KICC’s statement really mean?
First, the KICC has said that it would now look to use the building as “a cinema showing family films as well as offer it for use for amateur theatre groups to put on plays, and for concerts, including Christian music and that the use will be in line with its current community use as stipulated by D2 planning use."

That sounds very familiar: we heard similar noises last year when KICC’s planning agent lobbied Bromley’s planning committee saying:

“It is worth noting the unrestricted nature of the permitted use could mean that the site is used more intensively i.e. additional seating and standing capacity introduced so that the building could hold numbers way in excess of the current 1150 capacity limit without any need for planning permission. It could also be used for other permitted uses including a dance hall, concert venue etc all uses with the potential to cause significant noise/disturbance and parking problems in the local area.”

We reiterate that KICC’s purchase (using £1.25 million of charitable funds benefiting from tax relief) was for the specific purpose of religious worship - a D1 use. Having failed to get planning permission, rather than do the honourable thing and sell, KICC seems undeterred in trying to find a church-related use for the building.

Second, KICC has wholly failed to undertake any meaningful community dialogue, despite Charity Commission guidance on the acquisition of land recommending charities consult widely.

“Some charity projects involving the acquisition of land arouse opposition locally, even to the extent of active hostility. Where this is likely, trustees are advised to plan carefully in advance, to consult widely and to provide full information about their proposals and the reasons for them".

We know KICC failed to follow up an express suggestion by the leader of Bromley council to consult more fully with the community.

KICC’s statement says it “would be releasing a fuller statement in due course in terms of its plans for the building... and would consult with the community over the plans” – we hope it is now serious about listening and working with us, rather than wanting to impose its will on local people.

So, where does this leave the campaign going forward?
Recently, the British Film Institute described “film as a critical component of Britain's future cultural and economic prosperity”. Paul Collard, the chief executive of Creativity Culture and Education, a charity supported by government to provide programmes for children and young people, noted how:

“culture can transform communities, strengthen families, increase community cohesion and play a significant role in social and economic regeneration".

We couldn’t agree more!

7,000 local people signed our petition in the autumn and still want 25 Church Road to be used as a cinema. This is by far the best outcome for residents and traders.

Our focus has to remain on the regenerative benefit of a cinema. It is a key building for regenerating the Triangle and particularly Church Road. Since 25 Church Road has been under KICC ownership it has been empty and neglected. The local community has been denied access to a valuable resource and a building with a significant heritage.

We will continue our discussions with local officials, councillors and MPs over the coming months, exploring ways for getting a cinema back, and keeping up our close dialogue with City Screen.

But we need your thoughts, ideas and involvement as to how we move forward.

What can you do to help? - Stay involved, tell us what you think and continue to support the campaign
We must continue to raise funds to ensure the campaign stays in the public eye and to pay for legal advice on proposals from the KICC.

We’ll be outside Sainsbury’s/Blockbusters in CP on Saturday 10 July from 10.30 a.m. to 3.30 p.m., where you can catch up with the campaign team, get the latest news and share your views.

Also on Saturday 10 July, you are invited to The Grape and Grain, at the top corner of Anerley Hill and Church Road, where the Picture Palace Campaign, in association with The Transmitter magazine, will be holding a fundraising cinema-themed outdoor tea party - Have Your Cake and Eat It. The event will run from 12 noon to 3.30 p.m.

Five fabulous local independent cake makers will provide mouth-watering home-baked cakes, donating 40% of their proceeds to the campaign:

Angel Cakes ~ Blue Mountain Cafe ~ C is for Cake ~Gobble Gobble
~ Positively Marvellous Temptations

 Actress, writer and local resident, Nadia Sawalha, will join us - you will get a chance to buy a signed copy of her new cook book.

 Local ‘Extraordinarium’ band The Peryls will be playing live between 1 and 2.30 p.m.

 For that afternoon only, landlord Rick will be serving a selection of movie-themed cocktails.

 And, hot off the press, we’ll be selling the latest campaign ‘must have’ – limited edition Picture Palace Campaign canvas eco bags from Jane Shearman Design.

When is the next public meeting?
The next public meeting will be in August/September Details a little closer to the time.

Finally, thank you
Thank you for helping us get this far. Together we shall do all we can to achieve our collective goal.
Please keep checking the campaign website www. picture-palace.org, the Picture -Palace -Campaign Facebook site and http://www.virtualnorwood.com for updates and events.

Please continue to share your thoughts and ways you would like to help us

[Search East]

I really hope that KICC put the property back up for sale, rather than oversea it's community use.

a cinema showing family films

I can imagine the screening timetable:
12:00 Jesus Christ Superstar
15:30 The Greatest Story Ever Told
19:00 The Sound of Music

[leenewham]

Here is a link debate on the awful and unnecessary alterations the KICC are planning for the Cinema building in Crystal Palace. Really awful.

http://www.virtualnorwood.com/forum/top ... -heritage/

[downthehill]

Thanks for posting the link leenewham

I am a member of the Crystal Palace Triangle Planning Group and we have been working closely on this matter in partnership with the Picture Palace Campaign

Irrespective of whether or not we can eventually secure a professionally run cinema at 25 Church Road , there really is a good reason to object simply because of the horrific design that is being proposed to the frontage of this landmark, 1920's art deco building.

If you go back and look at the photo's posted on the VN thread and the extract of the plans to the application what you will see is that KICC are proposing to:

1. Rip out the fixed wood and glass fanlight windows above the current canopy (a feature since 1928)

2. Rip out the four sets of wood and glass doors which stretch right across the entrance way (again a feature since 1928)

3. Replace these with a double set of glass door surrounded by large glass panels, creating a large , all glass opening which will fill the entire area of opening and topped by a wooden canopy.

The total glazed area will be that currently demarked by the foot wide blue painted rectangle around the current entrance. Thus we will end up with a building more akin to a car showroom than an art deco former cinema

4. Put two new uPVC windows into the blocked up and one remaining wood and glass window

5. Paint the exterior Parchment, but paint the stucco, ground to roof columns in Burgundy so the whole building will look like some giant Rhubard and Custard sweet

This is appalling. I would urge any STF members who care about architectural heritage to write to Bromley to object. The links you posted lead back to some suggested sample objections and full instructions over how to object.

It would be particularly good if Bromley residents object because us lot up the hill often get overlooked because many objectors live in the Lambeth and Croydon parts of Upper Norwood

And thanks again for the inspiring work on what if , which really shows just how fantastic the building could be if we can stop these plans.

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