SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

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poppy
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by poppy » 3 Sep 2011 21:09

Robin, people would probably say 'yes' because they would be grateful that 'something' at last was being done about the dreadful state of that building, and for that reason only.

It's twee and lacks any sophistication. My husband and I were lost for words when we saw the cat!

To pretend it has substantial support is ludicrous! There has been no due process.

How a project conjured up by a few private individuals (am I right in saying they mainly live on the Thorpe estate?) has managed to get public funding is shocking really.

All the time and effort the self-styled 'mosaic committee' have put into this project could have been better spent trying to access funds to spruce up the high street generally.

The Narborhood centre does not need a mosaic to improve its appearance, repainting, new windows and railings and window dressings, some plants, that is all. And I doubt any of this would cost £50,000 plus.

You are imposing your taste in art on *all* the users of the high street which is in itself a very selfish act.

Lewisham Comms
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by Lewisham Comms » 7 Sep 2011 17:02

You might like to know that the Planning Committee has been asked to defer consideration of the Naborhood Centre planning application until their next meeting on 20 September. This is because the Sydenham Assembly meeting is due to take place on the same evening as the Planning Committee.

This item is therefore likely to be considered at the beginning of the Planning Committee meeting and, if the recommendation is agreed, the deferral will allow time for further representations to be made by the community.

robin
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by robin » 9 Sep 2011 19:02

seems a gigantic waste of money to me, especially for something which divides opinion so much.

on a slightly different note, can anyone explain why it's called the naborhood centre? it's always bothered me. is it just a spelling mistake which never got corrected? if so, i'd be in favour of spending a few quid from the mosaic budget to change the sign.....

Tim Lund
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by Tim Lund » 10 Sep 2011 08:25

Robin:

See previous discussion on this site - http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1940

robin
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by robin » 10 Sep 2011 10:52

Cheers for the link Tim. An interesting read...

Lewisham Comms
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by Lewisham Comms » 12 Sep 2011 09:06

Lewisham Council's Planning Committee did decide to defer the Naborhood Centre planning application until their next meeting at 7.30pm on Tuesday 20 September. A detailed paper can be found on the Council's website: http://councilmeetings.lewisham.gov.uk/ ... px?ID=5651

sfhyouthforum
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by sfhyouthforum » 12 Sep 2011 13:58

You should take a look at the revamp on New Cross Road. No mosaic, just a few licks of paint with some enigmatic images completely transformed the block of shops. Will try and take a photograph at some point to show you.

I must say, I do like a good mosaic. Though, as a struggling charity that survives on peanuts, I'm sure if it could be done slightly cheaper.

mosy
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by mosy » 12 Sep 2011 16:50

Lewisham Comms wrote:You might like to know that the Planning Committee has been asked to defer consideration of the Naborhood Centre planning application until their next meeting on 20 September. This is because the Sydenham Assembly meeting is due to take place on the same evening as the Planning Committee.

This item is therefore likely to be considered at the beginning of the Planning Committee meeting and, if the recommendation is agreed, the deferral will allow time for further representations to be made by the community.
I know that I must keep up at the back, but are there any £-numbers on what it has cost so far? I assume that the assessment of any further representations which will have to be considered will be a further drain on resources at least of time which could perhaps be better used elsewhere.

Given the design, I'd have thought cutting one's losses rather than throwing good money after bad could be a "representation" ;) No disrespect to the mosaic makers or anyone else, I'm just wondering if the costs might be growing like Topsy in a similar way to those that unmade defence items seem to increase sometimes futilely.

On the one hand, it is just my view, on the other, I wonder what the eventual cost will be whether the mosaic goes ahead or not.

Tim Lund
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by Tim Lund » 12 Sep 2011 17:27

Mosy

A starting point for answering your question are the numbers presented by Chris Best earlier this year, which I analysed earlier on this thread, including a downloadable spreadsheet. The only change I know of to these number is that the Assembly earlier this year scaled bak its donation to £2,000, so the amount of public money that has been allocated to this so far is only £12,000. At least £16,250 has been raised from private sources, and at a meeting earlier this year I was told by Cllr Best that all further money for the project would be raised privately.

How a project is to be financed is not a planning matter. However, if I was the Council officer actually responsible for the building, in these times with a painfully limted budget, I'd be looking for very strong reassurances that no further cost would fall on my budget before allowing work to continue :D

mosy
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by mosy » 12 Sep 2011 18:14

Many thanks Tim Lund. Being a night owl, I'll follow your link later.

mosy
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by mosy » 13 Sep 2011 02:58

Am I right in thinking that the £12,000 is a sunk cost having already been spent? I assume that it is a "cheque book" contribution so takes no account of overhead time/cost being taken up by the process.

Perhaps one of my biggest objections to the mosaic is that it seems to be at 1st floor level and above so it is likely only to be seen from the other side of the road whilst standing directly opposite since the building is set back and some roundels could appear as indistinct blobs so not really conveying anything of Sydenham's history - well unless there's a miniature in the window with a label (or a label per roundel) next to it to explain the significance.

I seem to be a lone voice on here when saying that foot shoppers and cars see things at eye level; foot shoppers are more likely to be looking down at dodgy pavements (that's not a joke) and as the building is so proximate to traffic lights (as well as being set back), whether just coming up to or revving up after, passing car drivers are not likely to see it - or are they? Perhaps a car driver could do a test and see if they'd dare take their eyes off the road at that point and report back.

As none of the above constitutes a planning objection, I'm just wondering why I've written it :lol: Perhaps a hope that common sense will prevail in some form or other. :)

(Edited for spelling, doh.)

Rachael
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by Rachael » 13 Sep 2011 07:12

You are not alone, Mosy. Somewhere upthread I pointed out that I thought only pedestrians on the other side of the road will be able to see the mosaic, and then it will be too far away to see the detail. However, I may be wrong. As Tim has pointed out, the artist is very experienced. It may be possible to see the mosaics if you are standing on the same side, facing the building and at the very edge of the pavement.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image

Tim Lund
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by Tim Lund » 13 Sep 2011 07:51

rshdunlop wrote:As Tim has pointed out, the artist is very experienced.
Have I? I normally remember what I've posted, and although I've never said Oliver Budd is not very experienced, I've never been sure that his experience is particularly relevant to us here in Sydenham.
mosy wrote:Am I right in thinking that the £12,000 is a sunk cost having already been spent? I assume that it is a "cheque book" contribution so takes no account of overhead time/cost being taken up by the process.
Not sure. £10,000 has already been paid out by the Council, and I assume the recent £2,000 has also, or will soon. However, it's hard to be know whether the costs given by Chris Best quoted earlier on this thread are budget items, or amounts actually spent. From looking at these figures, it seems likely that at least £10,000 had been spent - this mainly from adding up the lines with the no longer applicable 17.5% VAT rate. So this sort of amount might be taken as sunk costs.

Since the Mosaic committee has also raised money privately - and in my earlier posting I omitted the £2, 718.95 of community fund-raising, which brings the total private money raised to £18,968.95 - this means that if the project does not go ahead, some money may be recoverable. However, the mosaic committee had not provided, when last enquired, any details of its governance arrangements, as now required under the terms and conditions of grants made from Local Assemblies. Normally there would be some provision for such moneys to be distributable for similar purposes, which on the basis of the Assembly heading this money was allocated under, would be 'High Street vitality and inclusive community'. Obviously money granted by other donors, such as the Shackleton Foundation would be treated differently.

leenewham
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by leenewham » 21 Sep 2011 10:00

The mosaic has been granted planning permission.

Design wasn't a consideration. Health and safety was. So basically what the council are saying, is that you can put any art on any building (even in a conservation area) as long as it doesn't fall off and injure someone. You can get 12 grand of public money and spend it, and you don't even need to have applied for planning permission of asked the people who own or use the building if you can do it. You don't need to have carried our a proper consultation or offered any alternatives or even any finished visuals for what the scheme will look like.

Proposers for any art can have twice as much representation than those opposing at planning meetings and proposers can have back up from Local Councillors.

The project is still a long way off as I believe half the money still hasn't been raised after over 2 years, in the meantime this council owned building continues to look shabby as it has done for years (at odds with a 'vibrant high street' that is high on the local Labour agenda) and there is no timetable for either painting the building (to my knowledge) or installing the 'art'.

Rachael
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by Rachael » 21 Sep 2011 12:33

Tim Lund wrote:
rshdunlop wrote:As Tim has pointed out, the artist is very experienced.
Have I? I normally remember what I've posted, and although I've never said Oliver Budd is not very experienced, I've never been sure that his experience is particularly relevant to us here in Sydenham.
.
Sorry Tim, it was Robin not you who made that comment.

I have nothing more to say about the mosaic. If it goes ahead, I will be dispirited but not surprised.

Robin Orton
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by Robin Orton » 12 Nov 2011 20:47

I went to the AGM of the mosaic project this morning. Good turn out and a very positive discussion. I remain convinced that this project has a lot to offer our local community.

We were shown pictures of the already completed roundels and preliminary mock-ups of all but one of the planned ones. The one still being thought about is hoped to be something reflecting modern Sydenham's social and cultural diversity - local schools have been asked to come up with some ideas about how best to do this.

As I understand it, the total cost is estimated to be about £50,000 of which about £35,000 has now been raised. Various fund raising events (including carol singing at Christmas) are being planned.

I made the point at the meeting that I thought the project would benefit by having a rather more accessible presence on the web. I think the problem may be a lack of the necessary expertise amongs the organizers. But if anyone wants to help in any way, and doesn't know how to get in touch with the organizers, please PM me. (I am a 'supporter' but am not on the committee.)

mosy
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by mosy » 12 Nov 2011 21:02

<quote> As I understand it, the total cost is estimated to be about £50,000 of which about £35,000 has now been raised. Various fund raising events (including carol singing at Christmas) are being planned. </quote>

Am I reading this right? I'm sure carol singing contribution boxes will be clearly stated as to where money is going. i.e. for mosaic tiles. Doh!

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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by Robin Orton » 12 Nov 2011 21:09

I'm sure carol singing contribution boxes will be clearly stated as to where money is going. i.e. for mosaic tiles
.
Yes, that is my understanding.

mosy
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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by mosy » 12 Nov 2011 21:35

Then, perhaps I'll hope that people read the small print I guess on the label on what presumably will be seen as charity boxes at first glance? Given people thinking typically that money into such boxes will be going to a "good cause".

I gather you're not making the rules or plans Robin Orton (so thanking you for your reply) though with scam alerts aplenty at this time of year, wouldn't this come high on the list of getting people to part with their hard earned pennies under a guise of a religious festival?

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Re: SAYING YES TO THE MOSAIC ON THE NABORHOOD CENTRE?

Post by leenewham » 13 Nov 2011 01:49

Hi Robin,

just a few questions which surely must have come up at the AGM.

• When is the mosaic going to be installed?
• When will the building be painted and the canopy fixed? It's getting to be more and more of an eyesore.
• I thought the budget had gone up to £65,000 for some reason, is it really still £50,000? (although that's minus the decorating of the existing building I understand)?
• Is there anywhere yet that we can see proper visuals of the final design on the building and the completed roundels?
• Is the signage still going on the top of the building and will it be pigeon proofed?

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