"Silly and narrow-minded". Surely not ! Although I did think that your barbed comments on our Town Centre Manager under the fly-tipping thread was rather out of character for a public school man! My public school education drummed into me the importance of not showing superiority to those less well-educated and less physically gifted than myself. Were you breaking bounds when this particular class was in session? But perhaps it was just a small slip in your otherwise thoughtful contributions.
Back to the East London Line . Greg - make up your mind! One minute you're telling us that there should be decent pubs and restaurants in Sydenham, the next your saying that this is a delightful backwater and should be kept as such.
The only way we are going to transform our High Street (I don't mean the rest of Sydenham, which is generally great) is to bring about economic transformation - a huge part of that is a new and smooth functioning tube/train system. We need to bring economic investment into the area - and keeping this area as a backwater isn't going to help.
Surely Greg what this area needs are lots more people like you and me!
Anyway I'm off to the Dartmouth Arms for lunch with my wife. Now why can't Sydenham have a pub like that?
East London Line extension not part of London Underground
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Greg Whitehead
- Posts: 474
- Joined: 11 Apr 2005 15:44
- Location: SE26 5RL
True, I was potentially in the Cathedral grounds or back at Kennys when this lesson was given nasaroc (if you hadn't guessed I refer to WinColl). If it's not her area of responsibility I apologise unreservedly. If it is part of her remit then I am unrepentant, I pay her wages and once more strongly highlight the fact that this morning I was later than normal and was drawing money out of the ATM. I was surrounded by paper and rubbish that had in my mind been sucked out of the bins. There was a street sweeper cart, umanned, with no-one to be seen. No he wasn't round the corner - I've referred to him before. It is more than coincidence that every time I see him he's smoking/chatting etc! He needs to be let go - whoever is in charge of him. If it's not Julie's responsibility then sorry again BUT someone's got to sack that man.
Back to the point in hand. I really don't mean to be contradictory. My point is that I find the rail links perfect - reliable, fast, modern, clean, often and cool (literally!!) etc etc. Much better than the tube so I doubt that has held the area back. What may be holding us back is that we're not famous? I wouldn't exactly call us a backwater or provincial but I do like the fact that some 8 minutes after leaving London Bridge on the 6.25 I'm at the station and by 6.42 I'm in my door. I like the 'villagey' feel but I'm not sure that I want the area to become 'affected'.
What I'm trying to say is that I feel we need to be 'on the map' without needing to be on the tube map. It's hardly held places like Blackheath and Greenwich, Dulwich Village, Barnes et al back by not having the stinking, archaic, violent and unreliable tube rumbling by, has it?
Hope you enjoyed your lunch.
Back to the point in hand. I really don't mean to be contradictory. My point is that I find the rail links perfect - reliable, fast, modern, clean, often and cool (literally!!) etc etc. Much better than the tube so I doubt that has held the area back. What may be holding us back is that we're not famous? I wouldn't exactly call us a backwater or provincial but I do like the fact that some 8 minutes after leaving London Bridge on the 6.25 I'm at the station and by 6.42 I'm in my door. I like the 'villagey' feel but I'm not sure that I want the area to become 'affected'.
What I'm trying to say is that I feel we need to be 'on the map' without needing to be on the tube map. It's hardly held places like Blackheath and Greenwich, Dulwich Village, Barnes et al back by not having the stinking, archaic, violent and unreliable tube rumbling by, has it?
Hope you enjoyed your lunch.
I don’t understand why some people on the Forum have expressed ‘disappointment’ that the East London Line extension is being branded the “Overground” and not the tube.
The new service will have new underground style carriages, trains every 8 minutes, safer fully staffed stations, full ‘Oyster’ ticketing, tube fares and equality with tube lines on the underground map.
The new line will merge with the North London Line to give access to a whole new range of stations from Stratford, Highbury and Islington and Richmond. Transport for London will award the ‘concession’ next year and will dictate the level of service and fares.
This isn’t just an extension to the underground, it’s a whole new approach to rail travel in London that will cover 20 of London’s 32 boroughs and eventually provide an orbital link around London through Clapham Junction.
I hope members of the Forum will forgive me for being just a little bit pleased at what I and my colleagues have been able to get from the Mayor and Transport for London. However I recognise that there is still more to do. Together with Jim Dowd MP, I am lobbying the Department for Transport to hand over the responsibility of all the stations served by the extended East London Line between New Cross Gate & Crystal Palace/West Croydon to Transport for London. I don’t just want the stations ‘freshened-up’ with branding, new paint and a coffee shop, I want us to take the opportunity to completely re-build some of the more decrepit stations to match the new train service we will be getting.
That’s why we’re launching a petition to send to the Department of Transport asking for ownership of the stations to be transferred to TfL.
For a copy of the petition e-mail pupex at lewestlabourparty.freeserve.co.uk
As for the rebranding - what I had in mind was tube like distinctive branding that recognised the enhanced service, safety and fares. This new 'overground' service will feature prominently on the tube map using the same colour as the existing East London Line. The new trains will be part of the distinctive branding and nothing like the 'Metro' service many of us feared at the initial planning stage.
Len Duvall AM
Assembly Member for Greenwich & Lewisham
The new service will have new underground style carriages, trains every 8 minutes, safer fully staffed stations, full ‘Oyster’ ticketing, tube fares and equality with tube lines on the underground map.
The new line will merge with the North London Line to give access to a whole new range of stations from Stratford, Highbury and Islington and Richmond. Transport for London will award the ‘concession’ next year and will dictate the level of service and fares.
This isn’t just an extension to the underground, it’s a whole new approach to rail travel in London that will cover 20 of London’s 32 boroughs and eventually provide an orbital link around London through Clapham Junction.
I hope members of the Forum will forgive me for being just a little bit pleased at what I and my colleagues have been able to get from the Mayor and Transport for London. However I recognise that there is still more to do. Together with Jim Dowd MP, I am lobbying the Department for Transport to hand over the responsibility of all the stations served by the extended East London Line between New Cross Gate & Crystal Palace/West Croydon to Transport for London. I don’t just want the stations ‘freshened-up’ with branding, new paint and a coffee shop, I want us to take the opportunity to completely re-build some of the more decrepit stations to match the new train service we will be getting.
That’s why we’re launching a petition to send to the Department of Transport asking for ownership of the stations to be transferred to TfL.
For a copy of the petition e-mail pupex at lewestlabourparty.freeserve.co.uk
As for the rebranding - what I had in mind was tube like distinctive branding that recognised the enhanced service, safety and fares. This new 'overground' service will feature prominently on the tube map using the same colour as the existing East London Line. The new trains will be part of the distinctive branding and nothing like the 'Metro' service many of us feared at the initial planning stage.
Len Duvall AM
Assembly Member for Greenwich & Lewisham
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biscuitman1978
- Posts: 1588
- Joined: 16 May 2006 20:14
- Location: Chislehurst; previously Sydenham
London Overground - a little more information
Readers of the Forum may be interested in the statement on behalf of the Mayor of London at http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_rel ... aseid=9167
If you can put aside the party political jibes it provides a little more information on ‘London Overground'.
Readers may also be interested in some of the ‘London Overground’ images at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/ ... allery.asp (scroll about half way down the page), particularly the train interior and station improvements, which are referred to in last week’s press release at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/ ... p?prID=886
If you can put aside the party political jibes it provides a little more information on ‘London Overground'.
Readers may also be interested in some of the ‘London Overground’ images at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/ ... allery.asp (scroll about half way down the page), particularly the train interior and station improvements, which are referred to in last week’s press release at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/ ... p?prID=886
East London Line
Hello, just thought I'd drop in a quick comment. I've been very interested in the "East London Line Extension" for a very long time. The fact that it is not going to be Tube is not new news. It has for a very long time been segregated on Tfl's web site into a "rail" secton (which appears to be what they now call "Overground").
I have video and documents that I have downloaded from Tfl some months ago that describe the line, branding, and rolling stock and it is clear to me that it was not going to be a tube link - We won't be seeing Tube Trains in Sydenham or Croydon! The rolling stock is planned to be a "commuterised" version of the Electrostar train with more standing space. It will not be a tube train and, to me, that means it will never feel like part of the Underground anyway.
Calling these trains Underground trains is like calling a Bendy Bus a Routemaster
Apart from the connectivity to the ELL and the ability to use Oyster, I don't see what the gain is: you can already jump on an electrostar at West Croydon and take a slow stopping journey along the "new line".
Does this branding mean the stations will have roundels? I hope so, at least that's something
Nice web site, by the way!
I have video and documents that I have downloaded from Tfl some months ago that describe the line, branding, and rolling stock and it is clear to me that it was not going to be a tube link - We won't be seeing Tube Trains in Sydenham or Croydon! The rolling stock is planned to be a "commuterised" version of the Electrostar train with more standing space. It will not be a tube train and, to me, that means it will never feel like part of the Underground anyway.
Calling these trains Underground trains is like calling a Bendy Bus a Routemaster
Apart from the connectivity to the ELL and the ability to use Oyster, I don't see what the gain is: you can already jump on an electrostar at West Croydon and take a slow stopping journey along the "new line".
Does this branding mean the stations will have roundels? I hope so, at least that's something
Nice web site, by the way!
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martin d wilson
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 4 Nov 2006 18:17
- Location: anerley
I find Len Duvall's contribution (above) a very straightforward and honest appraisal of the situation. It is clear that we need to ensure that all of our local politicians are putting as much pressure as possible on the rail authorities to ensure that there are no cuts to existing services once the ELL arrives.
Starfry - yes the new line will have roundals. It will also appear on the LU map.
Martin - all the new trains will run on the existing gauge so there will be no need for trains from places such as Anerley to run any differently than they do now.
Full info on the new ELL at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/rail/initiatives/ ... tion.shtml
Starfry - yes the new line will have roundals. It will also appear on the LU map.
Martin - all the new trains will run on the existing gauge so there will be no need for trains from places such as Anerley to run any differently than they do now.
Full info on the new ELL at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/rail/initiatives/ ... tion.shtml