Antic pubs have withdrawn from the Greyhound

[G-Man]

Completely agree Whitoff. Having just looked at the advert for the Greyhound I think 127sqm would be fine for a decent boozer. Pubs don't need to be massive and as I said done right they work. Look at the Dean Swift, tiny tucked up an alley near Tower Bridge but serves excellent real ales and food, trade is booming!

Sydenham needs it, as you said the population is growing and becoming more affluent and people moving to the area will desire good things done well. Which many pub companies are capable of in the space the Greyhound is offering.

G-man

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[leenewham]

I'm joining the positive vibe.

There are a number of smaller pubs that are incredibly successful because they offer great food, great service, great atmosphere and they make people love them. The success of a pub isn't dependent on the size, plus a smaller pub will have to pay less rates and rent.

Giving people more of a choice will benefit other businesses in Sydenham. Time after time I meet people who live here but just don't use the high street. They go to Forest Hill or Crystal Palace or Beckenham. Sydenham need this.

Supermarkets are successful. One of the greatest innovations they have made in recent years is the good, better, best model. This has been copied the world over, infact last year we worked with a Ukrainian supermarket on their 'Tesco Finest' range of packaging so they too had the same role model.

I believe high streets need to follow the same model. They need their value range (which we have), they need their core range, they need branded goods and they need their 'Tesco Finest' halo range.

The latter (aside from the Dolphin of course) is missing. If we had that in place, then we may be having a Waitrose in the Greyhound rather than a Sainsbury's.

So, how can we bring a decent company to the Greyhound. Gman, Whiteoff, Dickp (good to meet you last night by the way) and others, PM me if you want to get together to do something about this. If anyone has a connection with Acorn Commercial please get in touch or share the info via PM.

[biscuitman1978]

I noticed yesterday that the Acorn marketing information for the Greyhound suggests the pub building will have residential units at first floor. In contrast, the decision notice for the planning application describes the pub building as a 'self-contained' A3/A4 unit. Similarly,the application drawings show the first floor laid out as a pub. Clearly this would mean that the total floor area of the pub is much larger than Acorn are suggesting!

I've emailed both Acorn and Purelake seeking clarification, but I'm yet to receive a response. Can anyone shed any light on this?

I also emailed Antic to ask whether the apparent lack of first floor space had a bearing on their decision to pull out. They said not, telling me that the spaces they need for things like a dining room, kitchen area, quiet area, reasonable outside area 'were there when we first viewed the pub, but after demolition of the back, were vastly reduced'.

I politely asked by return email whether they had had sight of the plans for the Greyhound development when they annouced they were going to open a pub here. They didn't respond directly, simply telling me that they hope to make an announcement about an alternative venue soon and that: 'The decision to change the venue was a difficult one that took time, but there is no mystery behind it, we just decided on a better offer for Sydenham.'

So, how can we bring a decent company to the Greyhound. Gman, Whiteoff, Dickp (good to meet you last night by the way) and others, PM me if you want to get together to do something about this. If anyone has a connection with Acorn Commercial please get in touch or share the info via PM.

I emailed several pub and restaurant operators over the weekend, trying to select those who might provide something reasonably aspirational but not out of Sydenham's league. Please PM me if you want to know more.

[Eagle]

Apologies for being negative .
I do hope good business moved in soon.

[Annie]

I still have a problem with the fact that Antic were not aware of the pub size before saying they were going to take it on.

Also, I have sent an E.mail to Wetherspoons suggesting they take it over-unlikely but worth a try.

[Dorian]

I still have a problem with the fact that Antic were not aware of the pub size before saying they were going to take it on.

Also, I have sent an E.mail to Wetherspoons suggesting they take it over-unlikely but worth a try.

Annie, Antic were not honest, they stated openly that they " still owned the pub". They clearly never did. Weatherpoons will never look at it, as it is, hate to say it too small.

The Alma in Crystal Palace is a tiny boozer but still works.

The Alma was mentioned previously as a small pub but when looking at [url]ithttp://crm.daviscofferlyons.co.uk/property_images/2314/Alma_SE19[/url] it has a larger sales area , income from above and a secluded garden with 20 tables, and the area quoted does not include kitchens and toilets. It was taken on by an indivdual, not a Pub Company and IMHO that is the only way The Greyhound will become what we all want it to be.

Well intentioned e-mails to Pub operators will come to nothing, The Greyhound will become what everyone wants only by a private indivdual taking it on.
The place, I am sure is a pain to Purlake and presents a great opportunity, as was the Alma , for a niche individual to make a go of something. Lets hope

.

So, how can we bring a decent company to the Greyhound. Gman, Whiteoff, Dickp (good to meet you last night by the way) and others, PM me if you want to get together to do something about this. If anyone has a connection with Acorn Commercial please get in touch or share the info via PM.

I dont think a larger Pub company, will ever be interested , a deal needs to be struck with the owners , a manager/owner needs to be found, and the proof of viabilty will be proven or not !

[biscuitman1978]

Well intentioned e-mails to Pub operators will come to nothing, The Greyhound will become what everyone wants only by a private indivdual taking it on.

I suspect you're right, and for that reason I have emailed the owners of some of the independent pubs in the area, as well as Davis Coffer Lyons (who you mention above) in the hope that they have clients who might be interested.

That said, it surely does no harm to make the larger pub operators aware, as I've also done. I'd rather they knew about the opportunity and dismissed it than never knew about it. Who knows, it might just suit one of them. As leenewham, Whiftoff and G-Man suggest above, let's have less of the negativity!

[simon]

I'm researching the "communty pub" model myself.
Breweries will help independent operators with the bulk of refurb costs in exchange for an exclusive supply contract.
Chains such as Sam Smiths and Taylors are worth checking out but I should imagine they are already well aware of the opportunity.
The vital thing is to make sure that Purelake don't just flog it off to a fast food franchise or whatever. It has to remain a pub!

[Dorian]

I am not being negative , just realastic ! Im trying to help. I do have some knowledge in this area, I will " but out " !

[biscuitman1978]

I am not being negative , just realastic ! Im trying to help. I do have some knowledge in this area, I will " but out " !

All assistance and (positive but realistic) suggestions are welcome, especially if you have knowledge in this area!

[Dorian]

All assistance and (positive but realistic) suggestions are welcome, especially if you have knowledge in this area!

Ok , Cheers , I will wager a bet.......................where this will go in reality !

"Marketing " of a building with " no takers " for its existing use, is a material consideration for any further application................... for another use.( once again, just trying to help)

[simon]

Yes Dorian, you have a point. However, local politicians and others made a great deal out of saving "The Greyhound" as a pub. I'm sure Purlelake would like a pub there for many reasons. You say it has to be a private individual; Michael of the Dolphin was a private individual before he took on the Dartmouth Arms and there is no reason to say a group of private individuals can't have ago.
I agree with you though that most large operators are cautious and right now and won't be interested but there are plenty of smaller enterprises for whom it may actually be a good fit.

[Dorian]

I agree with you though that most large operators are cautious and right now and won't be interested but there are plenty of smaller enterprises for whom it may actually be a good fit.

Yep

[biscuitman1978]

Ok , Cheers , I will wager a bet.......................where this will go in reality !

"Marketing " of a building with " no takers " for its existing use, is a material consideration for any further application................... for another use.( once again, just trying to help)

Thanks. That's true in some circumstances. But isn't it slightly academic here? The permission specifically allows the pub to be used for A3 or A4 use, and change of use from either of those uses to A1 or A2 doesn't require permission.

Are you predicting that the pub building will ultimately be used for something outside one of these use classes? Can we not focus, at least for now, on trying to find a pub operator (independent or otherwise) to take it on, assuming that it is what most people want to see?

[Eagle]

Again I hope one is able to commenyt without being classed as negative.

Wetherspoons , no chance, or any other chain.

We would all like a real ale pub selling 50 ales , no lager or food but living in the real world this is not going to happen. Would imagine the building itself will take thousands to bring back into use.

Still maintain too small for a new pub. I know some older pubs are smaller but they are exiting business's

People mention potential customers by the increase of people at the station. Have they not seen the increased cars parked all day all over Sydenham , especially Venner Road. These people will not want to stop for a drink , or we hope not.

Sorry if some consider negative.

I think a cafe which could also attract residents of the new luxury flats to meet and actually comunicate with their neighbours might be best option

[G-Man]

Agree with all your comments Simon, good stuff an keep me posted.

And Eagle I personally think we should all be pushing for a pub rather than a cafe, we have loads of decent ones in Sydenham. And a pub with no food? Not for me, I'd like somewhere to meet friends over a pint at a pub that does decent grub. As a real ale fan too, yep I'd like some beer on pump that changed regularly and also decent local lager, meantime for example. Drinking habits have changed, and a pub needs to cater for that.

On the chains front, some are expanding at the moment, and there is a business opportunity for a new boozer in Sydenham, so let's see. I'll have a look at the London Drinker next time I grab a copy to see what's going on in pub land.

As for Antic, they had their reasons, and let's see what they come back with about their new proposition. But as far as the Greyhound is concerned lets put any comments about them to bed as it's wasted energy in my opinion.

G-Man

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[Eagle]

OK Pub with food great but much more space reqd for kitchen etc

Re Lager. OK some lager drinkers are civilised. I grant you. I have seen some drink expensive lager from bottles , do you call that civilised.

Real Ale drinders DO not cause trouble. Usually well behaved and only want a chat. Old fashioned I know but certainly a place

[Robin Orton]

Glad to find something to agree with Eagle about. I always feel a bit uncomfortable when I see grown men drinking lager. In my drinking days it was known as 'gnat's piss' and was strictly for beardless boys (often mixed with lime). Progressing to mild or bitter was a rite of passage into adulthood. O tempora, o mores!

[simon]

Showing your age there Robin When I started drinking in the 1970's most bitters were abysmal; Double Diamond, Watneys Red Barrel. Along came continental lagers like Lowenbrau and and Skol Special, a vast improvement on the likes of Harp, stronger at 5% than either the awful keg bitters or the gnats pi55 lager you describe. Nowadays, good continental lagers are still stronger than most real ales. I lke both.
I really don't think we need another cafe up there and I'm sure the owners of Sugarhill and Blue Mountain would agree. It may be possible to convert the basement to a kitchen but a pub selling real ale, decent wines and lagers with some food also available would be a boon in my opinion.

[Eagle]

I agree bitter in the late 60's was with a few excemptions a disgrace.

Landlords had lost the art of looking after ale


But now many real ales with should suit everyone's palate.

Also the are 99% British good for the economy

Why pay 3 pounds plus for imported botted lager. These people have more money than sense .

When do you see violence in well run real ale pubs.