Street Drinker Violence

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14BradfordRoad
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Location: Somewhere over the rainbow..

Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by 14BradfordRoad » 8 Apr 2012 20:08

Annie wrote: Imagine my disappointment when my retirement age went up from 60 to its either 62 or 66 not sure which. But i'm willing to go now!!!!!! any offers? :D
I'm afraid it's 66 Annie, according to the Gov pension calulator:
http://pensions-service.direct.gov.uk/e ... r/home.asp

Far too old for many in physically/mentally demanding jobs in my opinion. We need to phase
down some demanding jobs. I've offered to become a job share with another worker but my
employer does not want this, they want me at full time untill pension age. They obviously want to exploit my experience and knowledge but someday they will have to find a replacement. Writing off the young, in favour of older more experienced, just builds up a yet bigger problem for the future. Wouldn't it be better to work out pensionable age on 'work type' or years of service or similar.

I know the model HMG answer will always be that they can't afford it but can they afford 'not'
to look at preparing for tomorrows problems too. If not they will be following 'New Labours'
concept of not worrying about tomorrow.
I know it's no easy quick-fix but the young do need to work IMO! :?

Eagle
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Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by Eagle » 8 Apr 2012 20:20

Not sure much to do with street drinkers , in my recollection they are not youngsters.

Interesting though

Annie
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Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by Annie » 8 Apr 2012 20:31

Eagle wrote:Not sure much to do with street drinkers , in my recollection they are not youngsters.

Interesting though
we digress, sorry Eagle. :oops:

Bazman76
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Location: SE26

Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by Bazman76 » 8 Apr 2012 22:45

Eagle wrote:I am afraid we have been through these issues many times before. I agree these people are a disgrace and another reason for a high minimum price of alcohol. How do they afford drink on benefit.

You could write to Mr Dowd or , and , a councillor , but doubt if anything will happen.
If only we had a new Virginia or New South Wales to ship these people to but unfortunately no such place exists.

Good Luck.

Hey Eagle,

Do you really think minimum pricing will help?

Remember prohibition in America? Didn't really work.

If people want to drink they will find a way.

It's amazing how many bad ideas get recycled by politicians.

Eagle
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Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by Eagle » 9 Apr 2012 07:51

I doubt it will make any difference at the price they are talking about 40p a unit. Needs to be at least 75p a unit

Supermarkets need to stop selling alcohol as a loss leader. They could make cottage pie a loss leader instead.

People will always get access to alcohol if they really want it but certainly less alcohol arround in the 60's when they only places you could buy it was off licenses and pubs. These both had strict hours.

stuart
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Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by stuart » 9 Apr 2012 09:54

However when wine & beer was comparitively expensive from the off licence - we brewed our own. It was the cheap supermarket plonk that killed that activity. Stick the price back up and I predict home brewing will re-emerge.

I'm not sure you want kids handling beer by the gallon ...

IMHO opinion the real problem is the enforcement of the minimum age in pubs. Publicans are terrified of being caught which is a pain to 25 year olds! When we all drank underage and the landlord knew it - as long as we sat very quietly in a corner sipping a half there was no problem. We were socialised into responsible drinking by the time we were 18. Now the poor kids have to cadge some supermarket wine or lager and drink in the park unsupervised. Result? Well you know it ...

BTW 40/75p or whatever wil have no effect on rich kids who are no better than poor kids and can afford other social activities. Nope it is the poor who get disproportionately hurt again. Still they are getting used to it ...

Stuart

Eagle
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Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by Eagle » 9 Apr 2012 10:05

It might cut back on the street drinkers who one would imagine are drinking on our charity/

benchef
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Location: Sydenham

Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by benchef » 9 Apr 2012 10:13

Violence in public should never be tolerated but I think with this group of people it's easy to point fingers and blame them for our collapsing society. When I first moved to Sydenham I too felt intimidated by them (even though I'm 6.3,18stone and covered in burns, scars and tattoos myself) then one day waiting at the bus stop outside pfc with my 2 year old daughter, the character named spider (with the facial tattoos) came over and started chatting to us and doting over my nipper. He didn't ask for money and we were just shooting the breeze. Every time I see him now he always says hello and has a chat. I think if you were to sit down and have a chat with any of them it would probably transpire that they were born of very difficult circumstances and possibly victims of abuse and although we all do have choices in life, some of us maybe don't have the opportunities or chances to make the right decisions. Society is a big ol bag of different people. In a way they are probably the only family unit they know or have. I remember reading about the Brazilian extermination squads, paid for by the rich locals who were murdering the street children in Sao Paulo so that they would no longer be bothered by such troublesome, unnecessary little people. We would all be up in arms if a similar thing happened here. Just because someone is destitute and probably a bit messed up doesn't meen they should be shunned by society. At ease.

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Bazman76
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Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by Bazman76 » 9 Apr 2012 12:23

@ Eagle prohibiton never worked, neither will raising prices.

If they can't afford to buy it legitimately they will find other ways, given that many of them are prolly addicted they are not just going to give up?

We are already seeing counterfiet boooze and cigarettes

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... arket.html

As stuart says they can even resort to home brewing its not even difficult.

As for there being less booze around ?

Well drinking per capita actually increased under prohibition

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Contro ... 34427.html

Its just the government keen to be seen to do something, which is fine I just wish that something would be something that is likely to work.

Instead of cutting the money going into policing why not bost police numbers this seems to me to be the only way to stop violence on the street.

Coupled with a longer term drive to change attitudes,

i.e. the macho consumption of "heroic" quantities of alcohol followed by terrible hangovers, is actually very stupid and drinking within your limits and havig a good night is the way to go.

This will be a longer term goal but you gotta start sometime.

CaptainCarCrash
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Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by CaptainCarCrash » 9 Apr 2012 15:43

benchef wrote: Just because someone is destitute and probably a bit messed up doesn't meen they should be shunned by society. At ease.
I've said all of this but some old timers do not want to hear it, it is quite natural for people to feel this way when they are confronted by uncomfortable realities such as broken people.

Eagle
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Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by Eagle » 9 Apr 2012 15:59

Mike/ Benchef

Appreciate your comments but they frighten some ladies passing by who are trying to carry out their lawful pursuits.

If they can drink tea or coffee and not use swear words then problem solved. With so many hundreds of thousands of words in our great language one should not need to resort to swearing.

benchef
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Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by benchef » 9 Apr 2012 16:41

Eagle wrote:Mike/ Benchef

Appreciate your comments but they frighten some ladies passing by who are trying to carry out their lawful pursuits.

If they can drink tea or coffee and not use swear words then problem solved. With so many hundreds of thousands of words in our great language one should not need to resort to swearing.
I have to say I find this response rather naive. I think they drink alcohol rather than tea or coffee because they are addicts and reminiscing about Dixon of Dock green is not going to change this, if anything, having the local bobbies give em a swift "knock around" and a few nights in the slammer would probably exacerbate their problems rather than solve anything. We live in zone 3 of one of the largest and most diverse cities in the world, you have to take the rough with the smooth. I personally find it appalling and disgusting watching all the coked up brokers and bankers outside the bars and pubs in the City letching and wolf whistling over the passing Women, but this is part and parcel of city life. Maybe if I bought them some Pimms a thesaurus and some straw boaters? Would this make things tickety-boo?

14BradfordRoad
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Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by 14BradfordRoad » 9 Apr 2012 16:56

Eagle wrote:Mike/ Benchef

Appreciate your comments but they frighten some ladies passing by who are trying to carry out their lawful pursuits.

If they can drink tea or coffee and not use swear words then problem solved. With so many hundreds of thousands of words in our great language one should not need to resort to swearing.
In my not very good American accent: "That aint gonna happen pal!"

We have to be realistic. Society will carry on producing yet more broken people if we
continue to ignore the root causes to the problems that we all perpetuate by doing
little about it. It's no good to continually say "We can't afford the solution!" (£££'s) or
blaming previous governments whilst the problem just worsens.
The fact is we can't afford to not to act on broken society and start by creating jobs,
opportunities and housing. I'm not saying we can resolve every problem but we may be able
reduce the ammount of them in the future by bringing them back to usefull society. Then
they may (as you suggest Eagle) start drinking Tea / coffee and using civil language, that
would be the ideal!

One things for sure, it's too late for many alcoholics and broken people already created..
Left unchanged society may end up creating just more of them! :shock: :shock:

Eagle
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Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by Eagle » 9 Apr 2012 19:21

Very sad but a lot of truth in what you say.

Doubt if the current offenders will ever contribute to society.

14BradfordRoad
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Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by 14BradfordRoad » 9 Apr 2012 23:10

Eagle wrote:Very sad but a lot of truth in what you say.

Doubt if the current offenders will ever contribute to society.
Doubt any one would want to employ the current offenders Eagle, disturbed alcoholics do
not make for reliable employees. If we could slow down this terrible trend for our future
young then maybe theres some hope. I don't see that we have much choice but if not they
will continue to cost society a fortune and the safe/wellbeing of everyone suffers.

I know my view may be simplistic but honest (I hope)! It will take a very clever government
to resolve these issues whilst pleasing all that deserve much fairer and better!

Eagle
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Location: F Hill

Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by Eagle » 10 Apr 2012 11:11

Perhaps a card to carry with you when buying alcohol which would only be issued to tax payers or council tax payers.

Problem here is all these convenience stores open 24/7 suppling cheap alcohol . We can certainly do without these places.

Annie
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Location: Sydenham

Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by Annie » 10 Apr 2012 14:01

benchef,

Cough cough, having been amongst "The Bankers" whilst some were drinking for England "uptown"
come 6.30ish they are gone---suddenly the pubs are empty! They do not hang around intimidating people for money or just being rude.(they may well do that at work :wink: ) so I dont think you can compare them really.
and believe me the female bankers can more than hold their own amongst them.

SE26bloke
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Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by SE26bloke » 10 Apr 2012 14:16

Annie wrote:benchef,

Cough cough, having been amongst "The Bankers" whilst some were drinking for England "uptown"
come 6.30ish they are gone---suddenly the pubs are empty! They do not hang around intimidating people for money or just being rude.(they may well do that at work :wink: ) so I dont think you can compare them really.
and believe me the female bankers can more than hold their own amongst them.
I used to work 'uptown' for a large global financial institution... on more than one occasion I witnessed supposedly respectable city suits being abusive and threatening staff of a convenience store in the Strand because the booze cabinet wasn't open dead on 8am.

(by 'witnessed' I don't mean it was me kicking off! I like a good drink but I'm not THAT desperate at 8am)

Annie
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Location: Sydenham

Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by Annie » 10 Apr 2012 14:30

SE26bloke wrote: I used to work 'uptown' for a large global financial institution... on more than one occasion I witnessed supposedly respectable city suits being abusive and threatening staff of a convenience store in the Strand because the booze cabinet wasn't open dead on 8am.

(by 'witnessed' I don't mean it was me kicking off! I like a good drink but I'm not THAT desperate at 8am)
Really? at 8am?,
I have never been there at that time,
why aren't they in their office at that time? :?

benchef
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Re: Street Drinker Violence

Post by benchef » 10 Apr 2012 20:14

rod taylor wrote:
benchef wrote:
Eagle wrote:Mike/ Benchef

Appreciate your comments but they frighten some ladies passing by who are trying to carry out their lawful pursuits.

If they can drink tea or coffee and not use swear words then problem solved. With so many hundreds of thousands of words in our great language one should not need to resort to swearing.
I have to say I find this response rather naive. I think they drink alcohol rather than tea or coffee because they are addicts and reminiscing about Dixon of Dock green is not going to change this, if anything, having the local bobbies give em a swift "knock around" and a few nights in the slammer would probably exacerbate their problems rather than solve anything. We live in zone 3 of one of the largest and most diverse cities in the world, you have to take the rough with the smooth. I personally find it appalling and disgusting watching all the coked up brokers and bankers outside the bars and pubs in the City letching and wolf whistling over the passing Women, but this is part and parcel of city life. Maybe if I bought them some Pimms a thesaurus and some straw boaters? Would this make things tickety-boo?

I'm not entirely sure why you are making this a class issue. Is there any indication that the street drinkers are working class? Is there any indication that the worst of the city bankers were middle class?

Surely we should assess someone by their behaviour, and then evaluate their reasons. All this Pimms and Thesaurus you are talking about is a red herring. If anyone was acting in Sydenham as the city bankers you describe, I'd be just as appalled.

Furthermore, have you considered that the terrible actions of bankers similarly have their roots in childhood neglect and psychological wounds?
I wasn't making this a class issue, and yes, maybe the worst of the bankers are a product of childhood neglect and psychological wounds. The comment about Pimms and thesauri was levelled at the pompous comments about them using a better standard of the English language and drinking tea and coffee. I also said that it's part and parcel of everyday life in London which cannot be swept under the carpet or solved by adding pence to the price of super strength cider. I'm just trying to put the alternative view across, as there seem to be a lot of "Daily Mail-esque" views on this subject.

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