Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Street?

[art4]

This forum appears very popular with the locals.
The bounce rate on this thread alone is very high in a short period which suggests it could be an interesting medium to share constructive ideas to help the SEE3 projects.

A quick and accessible way to contribute for lots of people.

Why not designate a new thread for the community to offer suggestions specific to the SEE3 projects. Constructive ideas, a critique too instead of being understood as criticism.

Helping then to find the best products, traders to occupy empty shops and minimising the risk of creating false hope to start ups.

A collaborative approach also shares the responsibility within the community. Find out what works first on the high street, what’s required, why they shop elsewhere too. Create then a group of simultaneous pop ups to reflect this (a researched formula) and a marketing campaign to support which may if done well encourage SE26 to become a destination shopping point.

I think the SEE3 branding is great and has a far wider application.

[michael]

Going off track here to a degree- but I think what does influence my perspective is the need to work out what can sell. So I take a business perspective. If I fail to do that then I’m compromising the artist.

Nobody is trying to sell the art work on the side of buildings or shop shutters.
I always thought that the biggest compromise an artist can make is to consider only what will sell.

Running a commercial gallery you obviously have a different agenda, which is fine, but it doesn't mean you should criticise non-commercially successful art for not being real art. There are other measures of value and I believe that some of the graffiti art I have seen around Sydenham, Forest Hill, and Dulwich brings value to the high streets.

[art4]

Sorry Michael if I do appear to be going off track here. Will try again!

I am first raising the question if encouraging graffiti is conducive to the redevelopment, smartening up of the high street. I notice some has already been removed since Sunday.

Next I have offered some constructive thoughts which may help the pop up ventures succeed.

May be not conveyed very well, but I am trying to say:

Nothing works well in isolation, or ad hoc- there needs I feel to be a strategy which connects all strands of the SEE3 projects together well-this should be aligned with the retail gaps on the high street which will be informed by what the shopper wants. Anchoring the shopper hopefully to their local shops.

For example a good gift/ card shop using local made products might work and could have immediate broad appeal. A good children’s clothes and toy shop? May be second hand? Anything too niche at the moment particularly when located off the main high street will be difficult to sustain. This then affects the success of the SEE3 pop up concept and the start-up trader. That is an important mutual relationship.

Just because I run an art based business-I’m not really here speaking on what type of work I personally like. In terms of the graffiti, questioned it’s compatibility in the context of the regeneration and the pop ups I question product choice.
I am not only referring to what might sell, but that is the bottom line, equally important is the overall quality of the shopping experience. Includes what we can buy in one location to save us travelling elsewhere.

[Rachael]

Anything too niche at the moment particularly when located off the main high street will be difficult to sustain.

Wrong. Niche is where high streets are thriving these days. Just look at Forest Hill. Stag and Bow? Couldn't be more niche. But thriving. The Montage, Canvas and Cream, Doopo Doopo - all offer something distinctive and artist led.

I see Syd's Vintage pop-up is moving to a permanent unit.

You talk about strategies and plans as if SEE3 have none. Doesn't look like that to me.

[michael]

For example a good gift/ card shop using local made products might work and could have immediate broad appeal.

I think there are two main independent card shops in Sydenham and Forest Hill. Sydenham has Kirkdale Bookshop, Forest Hill has B-Cards. Which recently won an award according to Totally Locally Forest Hill

B Cards of Forest Hill is one of the best greeting card retailers in the UK – it’s official!

The winners of this year’s greeting card retailing awards - affectionately known as The Retas - were revealed last Wednesday at a glittering awards event at London’s Dorchester Hotel, attended by almost 400 people.

The Retas awards, launched in 2005 by Progressive Greetings Worldwide magazine, recognise excellence across the whole greeting cards retailing spectrum, from independents on the high streets, to the mini chains, national multiples, garden centres, department stores, supermarkets as well as art and framing shops.

B Cards, as well as being nominated for the Best Greeting Card independent in the UK, beat off the competition to win the Best Greeting Card Retailer Initiative Award for all the work owner Serge Sumerling has put into the 'Totally Locally Forest Hill' shop local campaign.

There's plenty that could be improved, but I think most people have seen things improve in the last couple of years. There must be a lot of high streets across the country that now look at Sydenham and Forest Hill with envy or inspiration, and they are a great advert for the type of turn around that a small amount of Portas Pilot investment can make.

[art4]

Sorry to have made such a stupid suggestion!

But did suggest a gift/card shop- which could comprise of lots of different products.

[art4]

Wrong. Niche is where high streets are thriving these days. Just look at Forest Hill. Stag and Bow? Couldn't be more niche. But thriving. The Montage, Canvas and Cream, Doopo Doopo - all offer something distinctive and artist led.

I see Syd's Vintage pop-up is moving to a permanent unit.

You talk about strategies and plans as if SEE3 have none. Doesn't look like that to me.[/quote]

Have any of these examples just provided been established by SEE3?
I know Rachael you like to comment on nearly every subject on this forum with expertise or with a bee in your bonnet.
But if you have read my posts on this thread then I have tried to offer suggestions.
You instead state. ‘Wrong’
I presume you have experience?

[Crackerjack]

Syds vintage is part of the see3 project.....

Cheer up art4 treat yourself have a day off and stop moaning.

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[marymck]

I'm away and so haven't seen the new graffiti. So I can make no comment on its merits as art.

But I am apprehensive, as I generally hate graffiti, which I think is largely visual noise pollution.

That said, I love the Dartmouth road walrus. I find the east dulwich stick men boring and derivative. And I loathe to the point of distraction the paint splattered house and garden in east dulwich. Even the shrubs have paint poured over them, poor things.

So I look forward to seeing what's happened to sydenham in my absence. At least by making graffiti welcome, the taggers might decide its too mainstream and accepted for them to want to vandalise other people's property.

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[gerispringer]

I think the street art in Sydenham is garish and ugly and looks like regular graffiti which is definitely ugly. i don't know who was given permission to do this or whether there was any submission of various designs etc.I am sure some people find it colourful and cheerful and looks like we are all "down with the kids" ( yuk)

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[Rachael]

Have any of these examples just provided been established by SEE3?
I know Rachael you like to comment on nearly every subject on this forum with expertise or with a bee in your bonnet.
But if you have read my posts on this thread then I have tried to offer suggestions.
You instead state. ‘Wrong’
I presume you have experience?

You are correct that the examples in Forest Hill are not part of SEE3. I was using them as examples of why I disagree with your statement that niche retail will not succeed on today's high street. You offered suggestions (see, I have read your posts), I just happened to disagree with them. I assume that's allowed.

Syd's Vintage is indeed part of SEE3.

[louisecbrooks]

Hello All

I am wading into this very briefly because this thread is grabbing all the headlines and I want to use the opportunity to say three things:
1. Our series of club nights start tonight at Zanzibar from 8pm-1am. Its a community party of sorts so come over for fabulous food from Aga’s Little Deli and Northern Soul, Ska and Reggae tunes from local DJs.
2. New pop up shop opening on Sunday at 172 Sydenham Road. Love Harlem sell gorgeous natural haircare products for Afro-Caribbean hair. Pop by to say hi to them along with existing tenants The Middle Clash at 5 Kent House Road and Gunpowder Cherry Pie and Flash Trash at 167 Sydenham Road.
3. New pop up shop opening on Wednesday 24 July at 1 Sydenham Road. N’Damus London designs and makes leather bags and accessories. Nneka Onyenakala is a local resident who already has a shop in Brixton Village and has retailed her bags at our pop up shop in Forest Hill ‘Love Ur Look’ and other shops in the area.

Lastly thank you all for your support of the first Sydenham Street Art Festival, part of the Sydenham Arts Festival. The response has been overwhelming and I will pass on your messages to the artists.

This has been part of our Pop Goes Sydenham programme of pop up events and activities to reinvigorate the high street. Our aim with the festival has been to develop a visual arts identity in the area and to attract visitors (street art tourism is a growing movement).

For clarity, permission was sought to use the space and the participating internationally renowned artists have largely been sourced by Global Street Art who we have collaborated with on the project. The owners of the walls and shutters approved the artists before the work was carried out. The local businesses who have been involved have been very pleased with the work, and contrary to one comment made here none of the pieces have been painted over.

Mary - I'm sure there will be plenty of pieces that you find pleasing. The body of work includes a diverse mix of styles which should mean there is a piece there for most, although as we know you can't please everyone ;o)

We have a couple more pieces yet to go up, and a map of all art will be available in the pop up shops in coming weeks, with photos of each piece, its location, artist and background about the work due to be published on the SEE3 website very soon (http://www.see3.co.uk).

Louise

[Suzee]

I think the street art (in no way does it look like graffiti, such as tags etc) looks amazing and has brightened up our high street. Great idea for those horrible shutters and sides of buildings.

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[Rachael]

You can see the billboard at Forest Hill station on the artist's Facebook page here (it's publicly accessible so you should be able to see it even if you don't use FB):
https://www.facebook.com/nathanbowenart

Not all the graffiti art is to my taste, but the variety of styles is perfect for a 'festival' of street art, showing what is possible. It's also interesting in relation to the Sydenham Centre mosaics, which, again are not to everyone's taste. We now have a mix of contemporary and traditional public art on our high street. Who thought we'd ever be able to say that?

[louisecbrooks]

What a great piece Rachael. I hadn't seen that one. Will seek it out.

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[hazy]

i just wanted to congratulate the artist on this fantastic piece of work - it's great to have a billboard that isn't trying to sell me stuff! i happened to drive past him (+ dog) several times (starting at 8.30am) when he was working on this in the blazing heat - having worked all day I then saw him walking down towards sainsburys with his ladder & his dog at 10.30 at night. if i had seen the finished work i would have congratulated and thanked him at the time but i guess this will have to do. so, nathan, many thanks, & your doggie is lovely too!

[Rachael]

i just wanted to congratulate the artist on this fantastic piece of work - it's great to have a billboard that isn't trying to sell me stuff! i happened to drive past him (+ dog) several times (starting at 8.30am) when he was working on this in the blazing heat - having worked all day I then saw him walking down towards sainsburys with his ladder & his dog at 10.30 at night. if i had seen the finished work i would have congratulated and thanked him at the time but i guess this will have to do. so, nathan, many thanks, & your doggie is lovely too!

My husband said the same thing, Hazy - passed Nathan on his way to work, and saw him still working away when he was on his way home. It really is a terrific work, and uses the billboard brilliantly.

[art4]

Can I ask whose idea exactly was it to commission the graffiti specific to Sydenham?

What is the rationale?

Has local public opinion been gained before doing this? If so please can you direct me to that information?

Currently my opinion is still that it is an eyesore and detrimental to the redevelopment of our high street.

[Billie]

I love it - in a strange way it's adding some vibrancy to the high street. Also, it's getting people talking and might get passers by to view Sydenham as an interesting place to visit. I work in PR so that was my first thought when I saw it. It's clearly art not vandalism. Well done to the people who made it happen. It's a brave choice - that's worked really well. Why such a drama about who commissioned it/whether people voted for it?

[simon]

As I said above; your opinion doesn't really count for much around here, but you are welcome to it. There was no public consultation on the street art as far as I know (graffiti is a different thing, I'm sure one day you will finally grasp that concept). There was no consultation on the mural at the Narborhood Centre either, although the people behind it presented to the Sydenham Assembly for money and there was a debate and they garnered enough votes for some funding. The Greyhound wall, which I seem to remember didn't please you either, was subject to open competition so you could have proposed something (and then come on here whinging when you didn't win).

So Art4, rather than slagging off things other people have done; why don't you come up with a proposal of your own? If you think it will benefit the community, apply to Assembly for some funding. Your diplomatic skills will, I am sure, secure the necessary votes. Alternatively, you could just go and paint over the "graffiti" you find so offensive and perhaps replace it with something more congruent to the "redevelopment" (we prefer the word regeneration, btw). Or you could start some campaign of public outrage; perhaps that's what your doing here, if so it doesn't seem to have got off to great start.