Sydenham improvement works

[Marathon]

Even glass is porous which is why "water-sheeter" products are sold to stop even water settling in the minute pores.

Eh? Glass may have pores, but it's impermeable.

[mosy]

@ Marathon: Eh? Didn't say glass was permeable, just porous and had pores, although seemingly, courtesy of Google, permeable glass can actually be made now (didn't know that, good ol' Google).

What I don't think can be made is impermeable paving stones to which the analogy referred, unless as said a later sealant is applied. I'd much rather hear if I'm wrong on that count - I might well be, although I'd bet a pound to a penny that such stones would cost way more than a council budget for a significant coverage area could accommodate.

So where does that leave us? Well, obviously with the paving stones that have been laid, so as to how they bear up to wear and tear in the long run is something a council buyer will presumably have assessed.

[JRobinson]

almost all all footway and carriageway surfacing is impermeable, hence why the water runs off in a downpour, and hence why you need to add gulleys and drains. There are some new (and very expensive) permeable surface solutions, and they should have been considered, by LCC, as part of SuDS (Sustainable Urban Drainage Systems) consultation when planning the works. SuDS are important ways of slowing down water flow from when it lands on the surface to when it enters the drainage system, to reduce the risks of surcharging further down the line, and it also filters the water so that contaminents are trapped. Councils are now responsible for SuDS installation on all new build and redevelopments, and should at the very least consider SuDS as part of the planning process (there is not yet legislation to enforce installment - only that they have to have considered it).

Sydenham Road probably got in just before the legislation became active - but would have been a prime candidate, as it is on a slope, and has large areas where planting, and water management could have been designed into the solution.

[mosy]

Many thanks JRobinson for clarifying the position

I now have a vague memory that water management was mentioned earlier in relation to householders not being allowed to pave over forecourts yet the council could carry on in its own sweet way, a "do as I say not as I do" instruction.

[Steveofsyd]

Arrgghhhh!
I've been away for a week on business and have come back to devastation on the High Street.
Pavements ripped up everywhere. Someone please explain to me the logic and money saving that was involved in this criminal waste of resource etc. it's an effing disgrace.
What did I say earlier in this thread! The people responsible should be fired!

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[parker]

When is this first phase of regeneration supposed to be finished? Work feels as though it's slower at the moment than it's ever been since it began. I.e. when are the new bins and other street furniture going in and the new Station Approach toilets...? Anyone know...

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[Rachael]

Arrgghhhh!
I've been away for a week on business and have come back to devastation on the High Street.
Pavements ripped up everywhere. Someone please explain to me the logic and money saving that was involved in this criminal waste of resource etc. it's an effing disgrace.
What did I say earlier in this thread! The people responsible should be fired!

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Devastation? I drove up Sydenham Road this morning and was looking for this devastation you speak of. All I saw was the old lamp posts being removed, new cycle stands being installed and Riney making good around the new lamp posts. Could it have been co-ordinated better? Certainly. But it's not the end of the world.

[Steveofsyd]

We'll last night there were large holes everywhere surrounded by barriers. My point is that it is wasteful, both of money and time as well as extending the period of hazards on the pavements. This is typical of improvement works in London as a whole...planning leaves a lot to be desired.
On a related note why is one of the new lamp posts so close to the Funeral a Directors and not on the edge of the road like the others?

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[southernmoose]

I'm with you @Steveofsyd. I live on the High Street and have watched Riney's building works get tantalisingly close to complete, only to see Skanska digging bits up again...and again. Lots of the new street lights still don't work, and it looks like they've messed up somewhere along the line. No idea why that one post is towards the centre of the pavement, and why a big green electrics box has been left in the middle of the pavement near the traffic lights next to the Post Office which blocks the approach when you're crossing the road. Overall the works have been great and made a real difference, but I wish they'd just finish them off or at least give a public update on when everything is expected to be complete.

[simono]

Like most I really fail to understand the total failure of the Council to co-ordinate the works on Sydenham Road. The same department runs both the lighting and the road/paving contract and they could so easily have been phased to make this work. We will be told that it will make no difference the end result but I am not sure I agree with this. It looks like we will have to live with black tarmac round the new lamp posts and I am afraid that taking up and relaying paving never gives the same result. The other thing is if you go to the round about at the top I have lost could of the times the cobbles in the islands have been dug up to put in 2 lots of signs and then the electrical supply to the signs and it is still not over.
My final rant is the problems with the phasing with the lights which is causing absolute chaos to the detriment not the betterment of the town. When are they going to sort it out? Of course there is a fundamental problem with having 2 sets of lights at the top of the road and I fear all the phasing in the world will not sort this. In retrospect we could have left the single crossing on the brow of the bridge. The problem before was that the crossing was not controlled and the sight lines were so poor. But with the very elevated traffic lights similar to those to the new crossings it would have been easy to resolved the issue.
If the problems remain I wonder if we could revert, although this will mean digging the road up again!

[Rachael]

1. We won't be left with black tarmac around the new lamp posts. That is a temporary fix and is always replaced like-for-like with original paving.

2. Skanska are a nightmare and getting the two projects even as nearly co-ordinated as they have been was probably a Herculean task. Of course they shouldn't have been given the contract in the first place but that's a whole other thread.

3. I agree that the traffic flow is dreadful. Has anyone emailed Lewisham and/or tfl to ask about this? Because (as I've said before) complaining on this forum is cathartic but ineffectual at alerting the powers-that-be.

[Steveofsyd]

Saw no evidence of any activity on the big one at the top of Station Approach between this morning on way to work and return tonight.
Such a shame when we are scrimping around for Christmas lights let alone being able to afford to clean the pavements properly.

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[Chris Best]

Riney's have been posting regular updates on the scheme
http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/inmyarea/reg ... eport.aspx - plus the shop at 24a usually has someone available to answer queries.

Skanska are behind on the programme of installation of the street lights and once complete the traffic lights will be rephased - Tom Henry from LBL and Steve and Jim from Riney's attended the last Sydenham Assembly to give an update and answer questions.

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[Steveofsyd]

I'm happier now...all cleared up...must have read my posts

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[perryman]

,....
In retrospect we could have left the single crossing on the brow of the bridge....

As a pedestrian, I agree.

I think the council have been quite cunning here by implementing 2 crossings.
It halves the recorded number of pedestrians at each crossing, so they can set the wait times to the maximum,
without a too large a crowd of people building up at either one.

Without getting my stopwatch out, I calculate the wait is approaching a minute and a half, when a normally adjusted crossing will respond within 30 secs, I'd guess. (For example, the crossing at ~ the other end of Lawrie Pk Ave has an instant response).

The result of this is many will try to cross after losing patience and this is particularly dangerous when traffic is simultaneously being shown a green light. (Perhaps the traffic light should flash yellow instead of green to indicate that it is not working properly..... )

Another answer would be for people to boycott the crossing nearer the roundabout, as like bison crossing crocodile infested rivers, that at least would give us safety in numbers using the remaining crossing. And it might force TFL to readjust the settings to a safe value.

[Steveofsyd]

Re the lights...whilst they are all a vast improvement on the previous ones., I was wondering about the overall aesthetic of Sydenham approach.
We have the net street lights on the main road, the new "more elegant" ones on the actual approach ant the "chimneys" in the square. None seem to compliment each other .
There's no Grand Design ..IMHO

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[parker]

We don't really need a 'Grand Design', what is being prepared at the moment is better than anything we've ever had so we shouldn't complain too much. Nothing has been that disastrous looking so far... It's nice to see some regeneration.

What I'm hoping to see next are some attractive tenants for the retail units in the high street. A good mix for everyone. We got a B&Q we don't really need and happily have travelled down the road once in a blue moon to Homebase instead in the past.

What we need are some restaurants and bars going in... Why has it been so difficult to get Sydenham off the ground and feeling thankful when a pop-up shop decides to TRY. Yes, there are some nice independents like there is in FH but I'm scared to think that the regeneration going on in the high street area is only going to help a little bit. It is this I find really worrying for the future.

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[Steveofsyd]

Oh dear...yet again for another 3 days they have been digging up the Venner Square by Lloyd's bank. I thought at first it was to put in the seat. What a deluded fool I was. That's about 6 or 7 times now.
It's a joke....what a waste of money and resource.

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[Steveofsyd]

You know it wouldn't be a new week if I didn't moan about the works in Venner Square (is that what we're calling it?).
Correct me if I'm wrong but they appear to have dug it up a bit more ....AGAIN!
What on or in earth is going on?

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[JRobinson]

I don't mean to sound condescending Steve, but have you ever considered how much work there is to do, by all sorts of different contractors working for different organisations to get the whole thing finished?
Have you any idea how difficult it would be to get every single one of those planned in, and actually on site when required, to do what they need to do, in the shortest lenght of time, with the least amount of re-digging up any of the footway/carriageway? and if any single one of those is delayed, it puts the whole schedule back, and everyone is then required to reschedule. Everyone of which will be currently working on several different schemes all across the borough, or London wide.
I find it impressive that they've done it so quickly with so little disturbance - considering the numbers of people involved it could have been so much worse - you remember how long they were relaying the gas mains for?
and the council will have put in a section 58 agreement (?) which states that no utilities are allowed to do any planned major works on the site for at least 5 years (if I recall correctly) - and they'll have been consulted, so any major works could either have happened first, or along side the major resurfacing (which was probably what happened, the gas main went in first, which delayed the redevelopment) - so you'll hopefully see less road digging in the future few years (apart from emergencies obviously).

Hope that helps with the way you see things Steve.