Sydenham under a new flight path?

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mosy
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007 20:28
Location: London

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by mosy » 3 Jun 2017 17:54

Many thanks marky.com for your hugely informative post.

There's a lot on the Net about City Airport flight paths, I find. Apparently there aren't more flights, but they've concentrated them into a narrower corridor this year. They've asked for comments/complaints about noise pollution but say they won't change anything until the national review is done later this year.

This link is supposed to be a map showing reatime data of planes in the air:
https://www.londoncityairport.com/home/ ... -your-area
I haven't managed to get it to show any planes, so I must be doing something wrong...

Parker1970
Posts: 394
Joined: 4 Nov 2014 22:36
Location: Kirkdale

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by Parker1970 » 3 Jun 2017 21:35

mosy wrote:
This link is supposed to be a map showing reatime data of planes in the air:
https://www.londoncityairport.com/home/ ... -your-area
I haven't managed to get it to show any planes, so I must be doing something wrong...
Doesn't show planes for me either. Though it is 1 hour behind anyway lol.

mosy
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007 20:28
Location: London

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by mosy » 3 Jun 2017 22:30

Parker1970, yeah, also the screen has a replay function which I tried, also to no avail. I'm stuck on where it tells you to click on the aeroplane icon when there isn't one (or any), yet I heard planes over two hours so one hour or the other ought to show more than none despite the timelag.

Maybe it's easy when you know how...

alywin
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Joined: 27 Aug 2009 12:33
Location: Penge side of Sydenham

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by alywin » 4 Jun 2017 22:24

Thanks very much, marky.com and mosy.

TeresaR
Posts: 11
Joined: 19 Jan 2018 11:56
Location: Sydenham

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by TeresaR » 15 Jan 2019 08:38

The noise of aircraft heading to Heathrow has got much more noticeable in the last month or so to the point it is waking my partner and I up sometimes as early as 5.30am.Then low and behold a leaflet was delivered yesterday from Heathrow informing of the Heathrow Airspace and Operations Consultation. In other words they are planning to change the flight paths and we will be directly effected in this area. Have other people got this leaflet through from Heathrow? There are various consultation events, none of which are in South London which is not acceptable. In SE23 they have been campaigning for a long time and got local MP's on board as aircraft noise has been getting worse for sometime, https://se23.life/t/aircraft-noise/5990/23

I fear the recent change is a sign of things to come and action needs to be taken. Be interested to hear others views on this.

TeresaR
Posts: 11
Joined: 19 Jan 2018 11:56
Location: Sydenham

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by TeresaR » 15 Jan 2019 08:42

https://afo.heathrowconsultation.com

If you put your postcode in this page it will show that we are affected in this area.

mosy
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007 20:28
Location: London

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by mosy » 15 Jan 2019 20:52

Just to say that I used to notice the 6am one (loud enough to wake me up if nearing wakefulness); for two or three months now, the 5.30am one as well as a 6am one.

Can't say I've noticed daytime noise from those I see, being South->North over Bell Green(?) and West->East over/towards Forest Hill.

Sorry doesn't add much, except a worry that if 5.30am is now OK, will 5am be next year?

JGD
Posts: 554
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Perry Hill, SE6 (yup that's Catford)

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by JGD » 15 Jan 2019 21:31

TeresaR wrote:
15 Jan 2019 08:38
There are various consultation events, none of which are in South London which is not acceptable. In SE23 they have been campaigning for a long time and got local MP's on board as aircraft noise has been getting worse for sometime, https://se23.life/t/aircraft-noise/5990/23
The Forest Hill Society at its last AGM has formally adopted a campaign to address aircraft noise and it provides updates to the Forest Hill community through SE23.life.

A small working group has already established a presence and made contact with, amongst others, the Heathrow Community Engagement Board, HACAN, Heathrow Airport and with London City Airport.

It is already evident that previous consultations and any engagement with South East London local authorities and public bodies have been both less than complete and unsatisfactory on the parts of both London Heathrow and London City Airport. Our current activities have improved our presence significantly. As a result of early activity a Sound Monitoring station has been established on the Dulwich Forest Hill border to improve monitoring of aircraft noise at that location.

We have an updated picture of consultations for proposals to alter flight paths and provided planned relief from aircraft noise.

It is in our plan to expand our range of contacts to include London Borough of Lewisham and the Mayor along with other civic societies who have expressed a willingness to join a campaign on the issue of aircraft noise. Progress has been good on other bodies wishing to engage. MP Ellie Reeve has already been of assistance in terms of raising matters through correspondence on our behalf.

The group will shortly be publishing its first synopsis of progress to date and is seeking to have the item published by the Forest Hill Society and also in Lewisham Life.

If any one wants further detail please PM me and I will provide updates on how to engage and what we are currently preparing for publication and provide details of immediate and medium term activities in which we intend to engage.

rustya
Posts: 55
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 14:18

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by rustya » 15 Jan 2019 21:37

TeresaR wrote:
15 Jan 2019 08:38
The noise of aircraft heading to Heathrow has got much more noticeable in the last month or so to the point it is waking my partner and I up sometimes as early as 5.30am.Then low and behold a leaflet was delivered yesterday from Heathrow informing of the Heathrow Airspace and Operations Consultation. In other words they are planning to change the flight paths and we will be directly effected in this area. Have other people got this leaflet through from Heathrow? There are various consultation events, none of which are in South London which is not acceptable. In SE23 they have been campaigning for a long time and got local MP's on board as aircraft noise has been getting worse for sometime, https://se23.life/t/aircraft-noise/5990/23

I fear the recent change is a sign of things to come and action needs to be taken. Be interested to hear others views on this.

I quite agree, I have just completed the questionnaire, and we must fight this. Additionally as you have correctly stated, why s they drop a leaflet where we are in South London, yet don't bother setting up a place to sit and discuss.
WE MUST ALL FIGHT THIS.

JMLF
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Joined: 12 Dec 2013 19:41
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by JMLF » 15 Jan 2019 21:52

I’m between Sydenham and Penge East stations and not recieved anything through the letterbox.

I hear them everynow and then but can’t say I’ve noticed a large change of any in the last year or two and I thought (maybe incorrectly) that it was due to the wind for increased planes over certain areas but also the wind carrying the noise more too perhaps?

Either way, wouldn’t want any increase in flights/noise! Hopefully Sydenham and the surrounding areas push as much as Forest Hill have I’m discussing this issue.

alywin
Posts: 688
Joined: 27 Aug 2009 12:33
Location: Penge side of Sydenham

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by alywin » 16 Jan 2019 00:06

JMLF wrote:
15 Jan 2019 21:52
I’m between Sydenham and Penge East stations and not recieved anything through the letterbox.
Ditto. That said, something about the consultation did pop up on my screen the other day - was it when I was visiting the NewsShopper website?

TeresaR
Posts: 11
Joined: 19 Jan 2018 11:56
Location: Sydenham

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by TeresaR » 16 Jan 2019 15:52

Thanks all for response especially JGD, I will PM you as am certainly interested in finding out what progress has been made via different channels and what local action in planned, which am sure many others on the forum would be too.

dcjprior
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Joined: 4 Jul 2017 10:55
Location: Trewsbury Road, Sydenham

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by dcjprior » 16 Jan 2019 16:08

I shudder to say that if you live in one the world's largest cities, with a huge economy and several international airports, you should probably expect there to be some incidental noise from aircraft. It's like moving to a rural village and complaining about cows mooing.

In terms of 'drivers' to complain about, the chap piloting BA flight X from Geneva to London City is hardly in the same league as the stupid 'adult' you see doing wheelies at all hours at 60 mph on a motorbike down Sydenham Road.

Airlines aren't just going to stop flying into/out of City or Heathrow because the intermittent rumble of overflying aircraft annoys a few people living in Sydenham.

ThorNogson
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Location: Perry Rise

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by ThorNogson » 17 Jan 2019 11:50

it is fair to say that we should expect some aircraft noise living in London. However once you are here, it seems very unreasonable to find that, with next to no consultation, instead of a reasonable dispersal of flights over an area a very precise aircraft motorway has been installed just 2000 ft over certain homes. For that is what London City Airport did over Sidcup, Catford, Forest Hill, Dulwich, Herne Hill in Feb 2016.

Airport Watch (a good source of analysis and information http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/ ) says:-
’ EVERYONE living within approximately 40 miles? of Heathrow should go to Heathrow website https://afo.heathrowconsultation.com/ and put in their postcode, to see if the proposed changes to airspace & flight paths will affect them. People currently NOT overflown will find they will be in future’.

JGD
Posts: 554
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Perry Hill, SE6 (yup that's Catford)

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by JGD » 18 Jan 2019 08:21

TeresaR wrote:
16 Jan 2019 15:52
Thanks all for response especially JGD, I will PM you as am certainly interested in finding out what progress has been made via different channels and what local action in planned, which am sure many others on the forum would be too.
TeresaR

PM'd a response to you.

mosy
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007 20:28
Location: London

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by mosy » 22 Jan 2019 23:09

ThorNogson, first welcome.

Reading your post, I wonder if the plan is to diversify so reducing traffic on the air motorways "just enough" to satisfy complainants yet keeping one "lane" or more relatively high, which could then be used as an "acceptable" tolerance level for future increased flights over the diversified lanes and/or unflown areas so could eventually fill the whole sky "acceptably".

That said, Great Britain being an island, why do any huge planes need to fly over inland anyway - why not have coastal airports and "stack" circling planes offshore?

Meanwhile, shouting loudest seems to work with today's politicians.

John H
Posts: 278
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 18:15
Location: Sydenham

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by John H » 23 Jan 2019 09:36

mosy wrote:
22 Jan 2019 23:09
ThorNogson, first welcome.

Reading your post, I wonder if the plan is to diversify so reducing traffic on the air motorways "just enough" to satisfy complainants yet keeping one "lane" or more relatively high, which could then be used as an "acceptable" tolerance level for future increased flights over the diversified lanes and/or unflown areas so could eventually fill the whole sky "acceptably".

That said, Great Britain being an island, why do any huge planes need to fly over inland anyway - why not have coastal airports and "stack" circling planes offshore?

Meanwhile, shouting loudest seems to work with today's politicians.
seagulls... as Boris discovered!

JGD
Posts: 554
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Perry Hill, SE6 (yup that's Catford)

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by JGD » 23 Jan 2019 10:27

mosy wrote:
23 Jan 2019 09:36
That said, Great Britain being an island, why do any huge planes need to fly over inland anyway - why not have coastal airports and "stack" circling planes offshore?
As some of you may know ThorNogson is leading a small team from FohSoc on the subject of aircraft noise and overflights in our areas.

He has presented evidence to a Heathrow body and has been invited to join that body. The group has met with a adjacent MP Vicky Foxcroft at a further meeting where another Heathrow team made presentations about their proposal for an airspace redesign that would start from a blank sheet. That team expressed confidence that the outcomes from the consultation and redesign work would mean that the system of stacks would no longer be required. That in itself is a huge challenge.

As a heads up we know that a representative body nearer the Lambeth area has a planned meeting with LCY's new CEO along with their MP Kate Hoey taking place at London City Airport tomorrow. The FohSoc group have an agreement to meet with senior managers at LCY in the near future.

Watch out in the near future for a summary being published by FohSoc in Lewisham Life and on FohSoc website. This will describe what has been achieved so far.
Last edited by JGD on 28 Jan 2019 15:52, edited 2 times in total.

mosy
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Location: London

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by mosy » 23 Jan 2019 14:23

JGD, just to mention that I said what you quoted, not John H, who referred to seagulls, a very pertinent consideration. It's in fact where the expression "One for the birds" derives, a US court case re planes interrupting migrating birds' flightpath to the detriment of both.

Thanks for the info though. It's good to hear that different strategies are being put forward to counter both noise and undoubted exacerbation of climate change from stacking. Speed to their heels.

ThorNogson
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Joined: 21 Sep 2018 11:50
Location: Perry Rise

Re: Sydenham under a new flight path?

Post by ThorNogson » 23 Jan 2019 17:48

New report published today by the London Assembly, concerning Heathrow and City in which many of the arguments about concentrated flight paths, early morning noise etc put by local residents directly to the GLA Environment Committee appear.

https://www.london.gov.uk//press-releas ... raft-noise

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