Mount Gardens collapse

The History of Sydenham from Cippenham to present day. Links to photos especially welcome!

Moderator: frenzarin

Mount Gardens collapse

Postby marymck » 27 Feb 2008 16:50

Can anyone tell me anything about the collapse of the Mount Gardens roadway in approx. 1984?

Any pix would also be greatly appreciated.
marymck
 
Posts: 1567
Joined: 9 Feb 2008 16:30
Location: Upper Kirkdale

Postby Falkor » 27 Feb 2008 23:14

How could a roadway collapse!? I'm still wondering about the Kelvin Grove School fire... this was a much talked about event during my lifetime, yet nothing to be found on it now.
Falkor
 
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

Postby Steve Grindlay » 28 Feb 2008 09:31

I believe the road collapsed into the back gardens of houses in Mount Ash Road, which lined the eastern side of the road and were some feet lower. The story I heard was that the residents of Mount Gardens had long claimed their road was private, but when it collapsed and they realised how much it would cost to repair, they decided it was a public road after all, although this story could well be totally untrue!

As I said elsewhere, newspapers of the time would have covered the story.
Steve Grindlay
 
Posts: 606
Joined: 4 Oct 2004 05:07
Location: Upper Sydenham

Postby marymck » 28 Feb 2008 20:26

Thank you Falkor and Steve.

I'm looking through a file at the Lewisham local studies centre which shows photocopies of the collapsed road. It was really quite dramatic and looks as though it knocked down the front garden wall of our next door neighbour as well as doing considerable damage in Mount Ash Road.

I'm told that part of the cause was big vehicles, including tankers delivering heating oil, driving down the lane. It really hadn't been built for that sort of thing!

The dustcart doesn't drive down there now, but we do still get big vehicles going down there - removal & delivery trucks, etc., plus Ocado regularly take chunks out of the trees. Everything shakes when they do so!
marymck
 
Posts: 1567
Joined: 9 Feb 2008 16:30
Location: Upper Kirkdale

Postby Falkor » 28 Feb 2008 22:01

I'm looking through a file at the Lewisham local studies centre which shows photocopies of the collapsed road.

What file is that!? :shock: How did you come across it? Steve once mentioned that Lewisham had a file on the rebuilding of Cobb's Corner, but I couldn't find it. I can't be looking in the right places... :?
Falkor
 
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

Postby marymck » 11 Mar 2008 13:00

Falkor: The file was A/85/15 - idented on Lewisham Council's website as "19th Century-1985 Copies of Papers assembled for a Court hearing to resolve a dispute concerning Mount Gardens".

It's material put together by John Coulter for the Court case between the Council & the residents of Mount Gardens over who should pay for to repair the collapsed roadway. So it's historical material - nothing about what actually happened at the Court case. I'm going to try to locate that file next.

Sadly, the archive file only shows photocopies of the damage in 1984 and the copies are really dark and hard to see. The original photographs and negs were in a file held by the Highways Department but that file has been lost.
marymck
 
Posts: 1567
Joined: 9 Feb 2008 16:30
Location: Upper Kirkdale

Postby marymck » 11 Mar 2008 13:23

Can anyone throw any light on the origins of the various names by which Mount Gardens has been known?

On the 1819 Enclosures map it doesn't feature at all. (The main road at that time was simply called No. 2 Public Road).

I think when the road we know as "Mount Gardens" first appeared it may have been called Avard's Place (or Lane) - Avard being the name of a carpenter who lived in the corner house.

By 1843 the main road was "Sydenham Common". At some point the "Sydenham Common" main road was renamed "Sydenham Hill".

By 1863 the main road was called "Sydenham Hill Road" & side road we now know as "Mount Gardens" was "Kota Place".

Now it gets really confusing. In a 1868 drainage application the side road is called "The Mount" (but the main road is still referred to as just "Sydenham Hill).
BUT on an 1875 map the side road is Kota Place, though the main road is now "Sydenham Hill Road".

By 1894 theroads have definitely been renamed "Sydenham Hill Road" & "The Mount".

Sydenham Hill Road became part of Kirkdale in 1936 & "The Mount" was renamed "Mount Gardens" on 1st Jan 1939.

Now my brain hurts.
marymck
 
Posts: 1567
Joined: 9 Feb 2008 16:30
Location: Upper Kirkdale

Re: Mount Gardens collapse

Postby FergussonFamily » 31 Jan 2018 20:44

Many thanks for the above information on Avard's Lane, No.2 and Sydenham Hill. I've been trying to make sense of the 1861 Census and that really helped because, as you note, that is all now off Kirkdale and not Sydenham Hill Road (census says Sydenham Hill). The Carpenter was called John Avard, from Wadhurst, Sussex and according to that census, he lived at "Mount P. Cottage." Any idea what the "P" stands for? I'm guessing it's "Place" as in "Mount Place, Cottage"
FergussonFamily
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 10 Mar 2008 20:16
Location: Anerley


Return to Town Museum & Gallery

 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests