Around Steve Grindlay's boundaries...

The History of Sydenham from Cippenham to present day. Links to photos especially welcome!

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Falkor
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

Around Steve Grindlay's boundaries...

Post by Falkor » 21 Nov 2009 19:08

...in the parishes of Sydenham and Forest Hill!

PART 1 of 2 - INSIDE THE BOUNDARIES

Before 1855 when the parishes of St Barts and Chist Church were formed, the area of Sydenham or Forest Hill could not strictly be defined. Sydenham originally referred only to the area of Perry Hill (now SE6?) and then Bell Green and then Sydenham Road. Perry Vale and Perry Rise were part of a separate hamlet called Perry Slough. Upper Sydenham and Forest Hill were mostly called Westwood (wooded area west in the parish of Lewisham), which became Sydenham Common (top of Dartmouth Road became the first Sydenham High Street after enclosure). Forest Hill started off as being Sydenham New Town development confined to Honor Oak Road.

How does Steve know what areas he should be researching as the Sydenham Society historian? From all my discussions with him about monuments within a 10 mile radius of Church Rise, I've been able to detect where his spiritual force field extends beyond interstellar space, which I suspect has something to do with an amalgamation of old and new boundaries:
View Parish map...

The above boundaries have changed only ever so slightly since they were first carved out of the mother parish of Lewisham, whose boundaries probably go back to before the Viking invasion based on old Minster churches and estate boundaries. Mother parishes only started to give birth to daughter parishes post-1830s, and the first time this happened to Lewisham was in 1855:
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ALIB
Posts: 1541
Joined: 12 Oct 2006 21:34
Location: East Sussex

Post by ALIB » 21 Nov 2009 19:17

See what we were missing ? Thanks Falkor for coming back with renewed vigour.

Falkor
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

Post by Falkor » 21 Nov 2009 20:13

PART 2 of 2 - OUTSIDE THE BOUNDARIES

Catford Hill

Steve isn't interested in Catford Hill. It is outside the boundaries of Sydenham & Forest Hill...
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Bromley Road

Don't talk to Steve about Bromley Road! He doesn't care...
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Bellingham

Bellingham is NOT Sydenham! Do you understand?
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Southend Village

Southend Lane is fine, but once you reached the next village forget it...
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Beckenham Hill Road, Southend Road, Beckenham Place/Park

There may be an expert who knows all about Beckenham Place/Park, but it's not Steve Grindlay, who chooses to concentrate on his extreme locality.
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Beckenham High Street

This is waaaaaay outside Steve's boundaries... this is beyond Andromeda... We need to come a little closer maybe...
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Rectory Road, Beckenham?

Still too far out! Same with Kings Hall Road and Leonard Road.
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Kent House Road/Lane, Bell Green Lane

Steve has shown interest in the Kent House Road/Bell Green Lane area, but once you approach Kent House itself or the other end of Kent House Lane, you are in no man's land--no better than desert waste land!
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Falkor
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

Post by Falkor » 21 Nov 2009 21:04

Penge High Street/Penge Lane

If you want to start a topic with the intention of getting help from Steve then you musn't talk about Penge!
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Anerley Hill

Crystal Palace/Park/Road/Parade is generally allowed even though they are outside the official boundaries, so I think Steve is willing to make an exception for those, but doesn't profess to be an expert in that vicinity. Anerley Hill, however, is just too many light years away...
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Norwood?

Forget it! That is John Coulter's area of expertise...

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Dulwich / Kingswood House

Coming soon

Ulysses
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Joined: 1 Apr 2009 12:30
Location: Sydenham

Post by Ulysses » 21 Nov 2009 21:30

Phew!

Talk about coming back with a bang...

Some great pictures there Giles. Never mind the riff-raff though. I, for one, have no interest in Lesser Dulwich, Upper Norwood, Beckenham, Catford et al. Call me parochial but get the Sydders pictures up Falkor!

I was looking for some pictures of The Crystal Palace at Sydenham from afar on another thread and I note you've uploaded this beauty...see the sunlight glinting of her?

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ALIB
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Joined: 12 Oct 2006 21:34
Location: East Sussex

Post by ALIB » 21 Nov 2009 22:00

Falkor, check your pm's you lightweight.

ALIB
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Joined: 12 Oct 2006 21:34
Location: East Sussex

Post by ALIB » 21 Nov 2009 22:02

and ulysses.............

Is that a gllint of sunlight or the start of a fire ...?.. :shock:

Falkor
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Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

Post by Falkor » 21 Nov 2009 22:13

Fountain Drive

Near this horse trough/fountain stood a house, but not sure if Steve would consider it foreign territory or not? It's more mysterious than Quantum Tunnelling. Sydenham Hill, Rock Hill, Low Cross Walk, Crescent Wood Road, Cox's Walk are all worthy.
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Lordship Lane /

Coming soon

One Tree Hill

One Tree Hill is allowed as Steve has a family connection + the oak of honor in on the actual boundary line, which is far more important to Steve than the one at Greenwich Observatory! Does Steve care about Honor Oak Rise or might this spark fury from the Tribes of Nunhead and the Peckham Peel Dem Crew?
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Brockley

How far up Brockley Rise does Steve's interest in Brockley extend? Only he knows the answer to that... I don't think it includes Blythe Hill?
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Catford Road

We know that Steve regards Catford Hill foreign, so of course Ravensbourne Park and Catford Bridge are out of the question.
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Lewisham

In fact, Steve doesn't have the time to research any part of Sydenham's Mother Parish!
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Sydenham & Forest Hill--the center of the universe--is all that matters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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ALIB
Posts: 1541
Joined: 12 Oct 2006 21:34
Location: East Sussex

Post by ALIB » 21 Nov 2009 22:25

i have really appreciated the historical input by numerous other posters. Please continue TTT, Konqi, SG etc,....

However, Falkor, I will hunt you down if you ever decide to depart again.
And i will buy you beers galore until you succumb to being a lifetime member of STF.


:D

Falkor
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Post by Falkor » 21 Nov 2009 22:30

Thanks ALIB, you can be my minder; as long as you help me fight my battles here then we can be sworn brothers! 8)

ALIB
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Location: East Sussex

Post by ALIB » 21 Nov 2009 22:39

Of course.

Steve Grindlay
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Location: Upper Sydenham

Post by Steve Grindlay » 22 Nov 2009 20:58

Parochial? Me? Not at all!

It's not my fault that that so many influential and important people of the past two centuries had Sydenham connections. The Crystal Palace may have played a part, but many who visited either stayed in or passed through Sydenham, and recorded the experience.

Why only a few days ago, while browsing a bookshop in Kings Lynn (you see, I do sometimes travel beyond Sydenham) I came across a book suggesting that Bertrand Russell came here.

Russell (philosopher, mathematician, historian, socialist, pacifist and one of my early heroes) wrote in his autobiography that during the early 1890s he visited the family home of his friend and colleague at Cambridge, G E Moore. G E Moore's family lived at Woodthorpe, on the site of Eliot Bank school, between 1888 and 1895.

I've spoken with local historians in Herne Hill, Streatham, Dulwich, Norwood, Blackheath and elsewhere and they all believe that their area is the centre of the known universe. Of course, they are all mistaken. Obviously, it is Sydenham (and Forest Hill).

Anyway, Falkor, I'm very glad to see you back and in fine fettle.

leaf
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Location: Not so far away.

Post by leaf » 22 Nov 2009 21:22

Bellingham lido!!! :D :D :D

Anyone else remember using it??

Ulysses
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Joined: 1 Apr 2009 12:30
Location: Sydenham

Post by Ulysses » 23 Nov 2009 10:31

Falkor:

What are the first 2 pictures of Sydenham & Forest Hill you've uploaded please? I mean they're more paintings than photographs but I wondered what and where. Especially the one that looks like a 'church by a pond'...

Ulysses
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Joined: 1 Apr 2009 12:30
Location: Sydenham

Post by Ulysses » 23 Nov 2009 20:01

Ulysses wrote:Phew!

Talk about coming back with a bang...

Some great pictures there Giles. Never mind the riff-raff though. I, for one, have no interest in Lesser Dulwich, Upper Norwood, Beckenham, Catford et al. Call me parochial but get the Sydders pictures up Falkor!

I was looking for some pictures of The Crystal Palace at Sydenham from afar on another thread and I note you've uploaded this beauty...see the sunlight glinting of her?

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Oddly enough I am now 'quoting' my own posts. Now...I often pore over old pictures looking for the smallest and oddest detail.

In THIS one I see a wonderful post of the CP from afar...

Then I notice the leccy poles. Just how much elastic-trickery was sent direct into the CP...I assume this is what these poles are. Normally I'd think them football floodlights but not this time...

So from Lennard Road smack bang on the border of Sydders and Penge we see alot of voltage heading into the CP?

Yes/No?

regoneil
Posts: 73
Joined: 27 Nov 2007 12:35
Location: walton on the naze

C.P. from afar.

Post by regoneil » 24 Nov 2009 20:07

Ulyssis
Dare I suggest the poles you make reference to are probably telephone poles.
Incidentally, i suggested in a reply to the question relating to the subject that I always maintained that one of the best views from afar, was from the railway bridge just south of New Beckenham station, especially as the sun would be setting.
The picture in question would have neen taken close to what was Lloyds Bank sports ground.
I still think the building on end of Syd station was to do with the railway, No2 Sydenham Road was the home of Noys and Howes estate agents, on the grounsd floor with the Sydenham Building Society on the upper floor, as a kid, i often accompanied my elders to visit the establishment to pay the mortgage and I cant recall any access to the (signal Box?). Perhaps it was a hide-away for Mr. Markal, the olsd estate agent.

Ulysses
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Joined: 1 Apr 2009 12:30
Location: Sydenham

Post by Ulysses » 24 Nov 2009 20:55

Ah yes. I think you could be right on both counts regoneil. The telegraph poles and in relation to the small buliding beyond the bridge.

If only there were a way to get to the building but that would be dangerous and illegal!

Falkor
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Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

Post by Falkor » 27 Nov 2009 09:15

Falkor:

What are the first 2 pictures of Sydenham & Forest Hill you've uploaded please? I mean they're more paintings than photographs but I wondered what and where. Especially the one that looks like a 'church by a pond'...
Nobody knows.... but I reckon the 2nd one might be Sydenham Road opposite the chapel. And the 1st one most definitely looks like Sydenham Wells looking towards Peak Hill.

davegr
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Post by davegr » 28 Nov 2009 08:46

Will you two get a room?

will greenwood
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Post by will greenwood » 29 Nov 2009 09:32

Falkor:

What are the first 2 pictures of Sydenham & Forest Hill you've uploaded please? I mean they're more paintings than photographs but I wondered what and where. Especially the one that looks like a 'church by a pond'...

Nobody knows.... but I reckon the 2nd one might be Sydenham Road opposite the chapel. And the 1st one most definitely looks like Sydenham Wells looking towards Peak Hill.
Hi Falkor...good to see things shaking again.
I have a feeling the SECOND picture here is south of sydenham station/canal bridge,
The two large poplars are visible in the canal bridge painting, and the hill behind could well be looking back along kirkdale and up sydenham hill toward the north west.
(it may even show the canal, in fact...the path on the left is very reminiscent of a towpath..and its in the right place.....meaning the building would be the other side...behind Lawrie Park Rd.)
just a thought, but I think its the same artist, and sketches may well have been drawn around the same area.
....just a few more pictures of Forest Hill now, please....although it doesnt seem to have been pictured nearly as often as sydenham.
all the best, mate.

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