2 Church Halls previously at the top of Taylor's Lane?

The History of Sydenham from Cippenham to present day. Links to photos especially welcome!

Moderator: frenzarin

Falkor
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

2 Church Halls previously at the top of Taylor's Lane?

Post by Falkor »

This doesn't appear to be the surviving St. Philip's Church Hall in Coombe Road? Apparently, it's taken from Taylor's Lane, so was there a 2nd Church Hall? I'm sure I found evidence of it, but can't remember my source: either a photo, ariel photo or map.

Image

Pat Trembath
Posts: 613
Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54

Post by Pat Trembath »

Falkor's photo shows the original church hall in Taylors Lane which was demolished at the time of the massive Wells Park Road clearance in the very early 1970's. There was an Off Licence (Scobies) just a little way down which survived for some while after the general demolition.

Around 300 houses were demolished as well as a very busy shopping parade on both sides of Wells (Park) Road with a butcher, two greengrocers, bakers, two hairdressers, two newsagents, oil /motorbake shop, furniture upholsterers and builders merchants - these come immediately to mind, although there were a number of others. Long term residents were rehoused throughout the borough.

Approximately 300 new residences were built (all with indoor plumbing - the previous houses were serviced by outhouse lean-tos) and newcomers came from all over the borough with little feeling for the local community and there were a number of problems which arose fairly quickly - amongst these were the not too friendly rivalry between the young newcomers and other youngsters on nearby estates

The present hall on the corner of Coombe Road (the Vi Sharpe Memorial Hall) was the original St Philip's CoE Infants School, which closed at the same time.

Vi Sharpe was a resident on the new Wells Park Estate and was highly active in building up community spirit on the new Estate and joined local residents throughout the Wells Park area in setting up the the Upper Sydenham Community Festival which started in 1972 with the aim of building a sense of community. This continued successfully for 11 years until it finally folded in 1983 due to its organisers getting older and younger folk not coming forward.

Falkor
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

Post by Falkor »

Falkor's photo shows the original church hall in Taylors Lane which was demolished at the time of the massive Wells Park Road clearance in the very early 1970's.
Thanks for your reply, Pat, and cheers for sharing the additional info! BTW, the northern side of Wells Park Road was mainly cleared as early as the late 50s! Anyway, I'm not very familiar with the history of Taylor's Lane. Please can you tell me exactly where this Church Hall stood before it was demolished; can it be spotted inside any of the 4 red circles I've highlighted on this 1894 map?
Image
5. Is this by any chance the last of the surviving springs near the Green Dragon?
6. This is the surviving church hall in Coombe road.*
7. Is this where the Off License was?
8. Anyone know anything about this building??

*Seen from Wells Park Road
Image

Image
Last question: do these cottages survive? I heard there was a surviving pair, but thought they might be opposite.

Falkor
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

Post by Falkor »

I think I've found it!!! Although my copies of these photos never came out in the best quality... :x

Image
This would place the old Church Hall in circle 2 or just above?

Image
St. Philip's Church seen from Coombe Road. There was a house in-between the Church and Hall?

Image
The wasteground in front of the Church must be the site of the demolished Taylors Lane Church Hall?

Pat Trembath
Posts: 613
Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54

Post by Pat Trembath »

OK - I'll try to answer the questions.

Church Hall was at no:2.
Off Licence was no:7
Wells Cottage and well at no:5 - Steve Grindlay to confirm??
Re the cottages - the 2x2-storey cottages are still there. The pretty single storey cottage was demolished - all that glisters is not gold and it was evidently extremely damp and rotten within.
I do not recall a house between the old school and the old church in Coombe Road and it does not appear on your map so I'm mystified by your picture, here.

In my recollection the old church stood higher up Coombe Road than the present building. If you look at your map you will note that the old church nearly filled the whole of the site between Coombe Road and Taylors Lane.

There is still a managed green area between the present church and the Vi Sharpe Memorial Hall. However I always understood that the block of private flats, Wells Park Court, at the top of Taylors Lane had been built by the developers on a piece of the original church site as a quid pro quo for building the new church.

Falkor
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

Post by Falkor »

Thanks Pat!

Does the 8th circle on the map mark the spot where 66 Longton Grove stood by any chance? This house is mentioned about 5 times in my history books; it was sketched by Pissarro and was decorated with a church spire! Could circle 8 be the one?? Steve? Anyone?

Falkor
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

Post by Falkor »

Bingo! :D

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Greg Whitehead
Posts: 474
Joined: 11 Apr 2005 15:44
Location: SE26 5RL

Post by Greg Whitehead »

I have the 1999 edition of Sydenham & Forest Hill past by John Coulter, Falkor and within is the passage For STEVE GRINDLAY to whom I pass the baton

On that basis I can envisage him being the perfect company to have on our next walk.

Just thought you'd like to know.

spitnolan
Posts: 12
Joined: 28 Nov 2008 03:04
Location: Sydney, Oz.

Post by spitnolan »

There was a church hall a little way up Taylors Lane just past ‘Scrobies’ (corner of Coombe Road). When I attended St Philips School it was where you went for lunch if you didn't have 'home dinners.' It was also used for P.E.

bradfordroadgirl
Posts: 42
Joined: 5 Jul 2009 00:04
Location: Forest Hill

Post by bradfordroadgirl »

Pat Trembath wrote:OK - I'll try to answer the questions.


I do not recall a house between the old school and the old church in Coombe Road and it does not appear on your map so I'm mystified by your picture, here.
My mother, who grew up in Wells Park Road tells me there were about 4 houses between St Phillip's School and the old church. You could walk around the church from Coombe into Taylor's Lane via the churchyard. As you went through the churchyard and into Taylor's Lane there was the back of a cottage right on the church yard. It had no back garden as the back of the cottage was on the churchyard. The people who lived in that house (around 1930's to late forties (??) were called Tripp. There was a really long garden that went up Taylors Lane and onto Wells Park Road. It was the corner property.

It all went in the 70's clearance. Sorry if I have repeated things already said!

thebufferuk
Posts: 5
Joined: 6 May 2012 21:41
Location: Kent

Re: 2 Church Halls previously at the top of Taylor's Lane?

Post by thebufferuk »

Just for reference should it be of interest, there were three town houses between Scrobies and the church hall in Taylors Lane. The middle town house was No. 33 and where my family lived until moved out in 1969.

Brannan
Posts: 39
Joined: 18 Apr 2013 16:12

Re: 2 Church Halls previously at the top of Taylor's Lane?

Post by Brannan »

The Tripps mentioned in a previous message were my grandparents. My grandfather Arthur Tripp was killed in a tragic accident in 1942 (knocked over by his horse) and my grandmother must have moved away after the war.

Brannan
Posts: 39
Joined: 18 Apr 2013 16:12

Re: 2 Church Halls previously at the top of Taylor's Lane?

Post by Brannan »

I thought it would be of interest to post this picture.
My Tripp grandparents actually lived in Prospect Road and Coombe Rd, whilst my great grandfather, Lowing Tripp, mentioned elsewhere, lived on Wells Road, and the house at 2 Taylor's Lane was inhabited by Lowing's parents-in-law, William and Charlotte Hemmings.
Here is a picture of them outside 2 Taylors Lane in the early/mid 20s

My webpage about their son Ben, killed at Gallipoli, has another picture of them in a newspaper article.
http://jbrannan.pagesperso-orange.fr/hemmings.htm

Brannan
Posts: 39
Joined: 18 Apr 2013 16:12

Re: 2 Church Halls previously at the top of Taylor's Lane?

Post by Brannan »

This picture of my grandfather A. Tripp was probably taken in Coombe Road, as the family lived there (late 1920s), and I was wondering if that's a church or church hall behind.

Michael Viner
Posts: 65
Joined: 2 Jul 2007 18:37
Location: Sydenham

Re: 2 Church Halls previously at the top of Taylor's Lane?

Post by Michael Viner »

Dear Brannan,Thanks for another wonderful photo! Yes that's St.Philips Church in the background.Your grandfather is standing in Wells Rd. at the junction with Oaksford Avenue.The house on the left is 119 Wells Rd., one of the three terraced houses between 'The Wells'(a small part of which can just be seen on the far right) and St.Philips School.This view was still much the same when I was a boy in the early 1970's,apart from The Wells,which was demolished in 61'.The houses next to St.Philips were due for demolition though and were occupied by squatters I think before being knocked down about 1972/3.Thanks too for so helpfully&magically identifying your mother&grandfather in that 'feeding the ducks in Wells Park' postcard,a postcard I've owned and loved for years.As I said,you and Maureen Barrett have made a great contribution to our knowledge of Wells Park Rd. area history with your posts on this forum.Best wishes,Michael

Brannan
Posts: 39
Joined: 18 Apr 2013 16:12

Re: 2 Church Halls previously at the top of Taylor's Lane?

Post by Brannan »

Thanks very much for explaining this one too! If the house on the left is 119 then I presume the left side of The Wells, where the family lived, was indeed 121 (on another thread it was suggested that 121 could not have been The Wells, but this confirms that it must have been). On the 1911 census the Tripps lived at 58 Wells Road, so they must have moved down the road by the 1920s.
James

Michael Viner
Posts: 65
Joined: 2 Jul 2007 18:37
Location: Sydenham

Re: 2 Church Halls previously at the top of Taylor's Lane?

Post by Michael Viner »

Dear Brannan,Glad to be of help.My 1931 Kelly's Directory of Sydenham&Forest Hill has,as resident of No. 121 Wells Rd.(they only listed the 'head of household' nearly always the husband,unless a widow or spinster)' Lowing Hy(Henry?) Tripp,Removal Contractor'. 121 and 123 Wells Rd. were unquestionably the numbers of the two houses that comprised the cottage called 'The Wells'. Thanks,by the way,also for the nice photo of No. 2 Taylors Lane-definitely the 1st photo of that house to come to light! The same 1931 directory shows The Hemmings still living there then. Kind Regards,Michael

Brannan
Posts: 39
Joined: 18 Apr 2013 16:12

Re: 2 Church Halls previously at the top of Taylor's Lane?

Post by Brannan »

Thanks for checking the directory. Thanks to you I have managed to get a second-hand copy of the Coulter and Seaman book. The Flew's dairy picture on page 120 is actually one that I have and it shows my grandfather Arthur Tripp standing in the cart on the far right. It's useful to be able to date it - abt. 1921 - suggesting that he worked for Flew's before starting his own business, first milk and later coal. I think the picture on this thread shows a Flew's milkcart and must also be early 1920s.

His father Lowing Henry Tripp also sold milk and coal at various times, as well as doing removals. The 1911 census shows Lowing's occupation as "jobbing carter, chiefly removals - own account". At that time he was at 58 Wells Road, which must have been further down (unless the houses were renumbered at some point). In 1911 he had a lodger called Edward Lissenden, a railway porter.

Brannan
Posts: 39
Joined: 18 Apr 2013 16:12

Re: 2 Church Halls previously at the top of Taylor's Lane?

Post by Brannan »

I think this picture could be taken in the garden of The Wells looking left towards the back of the houses in Coombe Road. The two men behind are Lowing Tripp on the left and his son Arthur on the right.

Incidentally, it is interesting to compare the milkcart picture above with that in Coulter and Seaman on page 81, as you mentioned, because in both you can clearly see the same pattern along the roof of the Church behind. An enlargement of that book picture can be found in the "Wells Park" thread.

Michael Viner
Posts: 65
Joined: 2 Jul 2007 18:37
Location: Sydenham

Re: 2 Church Halls previously at the top of Taylor's Lane?

Post by Michael Viner »

Dear Brannan,Yes you're absolutely right-it's the back of the houses(3,I think) that were between St.Phillips School and the church.I have a photo from 1963 of the front of the house on the right with the wonderfully distinctive bendy-look chimneys.Where your family are standing was an overgrown bit of empty land when I was a lad in the early to mid 70's.'The Wells' cottage had only been demolished 10-15 years before,but in just that time nature had already taken over the site of the house and garden, with quite a few small trees and bushes.I remember playing there and making a couple of camps there with friends&fellow St.Phillips choir boys.
This view today could'nt be more different than the charming early 1800's cottage 'The Wells' and it's garden! It's where the new,modern state- of- the- art Youth Centre building is,all corrugated plastic(?) metal and glass.

Image
Coombe-Road by Michael Viner, on Flickr

Post Reply