save our front gardens

Wispy Wonder · Post by **Wispy Wonder** » 11 Dec 2007 21:44

Kster

There'd be far more parking for everyone is selfish homeowners didn't monopolize the roads by creating private parking spaces. The average house is wide enough for at least two cars to park outside. Pave over the garden and demand permanent access - that's two less spaces for everyone.

And by the way - the reason I park where I do is because I'm trying to support our local shops. If there is space in the free carpark I use it. Given how little carparking there is near the high street, exacerbated by these self-serving homeowners, it's little surprise our high street is so down at heel.

kster · Post by **kster** » 11 Dec 2007 22:36

It is not the homeowners that cause the parking problems, the problem is getting parked during the day and not at night. It is people who drive rather than walk for 10 or 20 mins to the high street that are causing the problem. We live in SE London and there can barely be a house in the area that isn’t within a mile of a station and a high street. There shouldn’t be the need for huge multi-storey parking in Sydenham.

I haven’t paved over my front garden and I don’t ever intent to, but I can understand why people do. They are fed up with having to unpack the kids / buggies etc and walk down the road to get to their house – just because someone wants to park right next to where they shop or get the train rather than walk for 10 minutes. Normally I don’t mind walking to the car, but when you have 2 small children and associated kit, it is a real pain and not very safe to have to make 2 trips to the car at the end of the road. And there is no way that people only park in the side roads because the car park is full.

The Eagle · Post by **The Eagle** » 12 Dec 2007 05:22

sarahc wrote:Thanks for sticking up for me Ginge.

Eagle, I can park across my dropped kerb because it's MY dropped kerb. In fact, I don't - because that would be silly as I have a drive!

Sarah I don't think you will find it is YOUR dropped kerb.
I am not saying you do park across your drive but many others do across theirs.

I am not against dropped drives or people parking in their front gardens, people DO have to park their cars somewhere; but my point is 'some' people park across the dropped kerb where they live; which in effect gives them a reserved car parking space in the road. How much do you pay a year for that?

A different argument, but in my opinion Traffic Wardens should put a ticket on any vehicle that blocks any dropped kerb.

Wispy Wonder · Post by **Wispy Wonder** » 12 Dec 2007 18:58

Kster

So it's OK for other people to walk 10-20 mins to go to the high street - and then walk 10-20 mins home laden with shopping - but not to walk more than five paces from your parked car to your front door. That makes sense.

poppy · Post by **poppy** » 13 Dec 2007 09:57

kennyb2, and fine people who are found with a parked car in their 'drive' which does not have a dropped kerb. Surely people who haven't shelled out the 1k to lower the kerb shouldn't be 'stealing' parking spaces from the rest of us. I know of a few around here!

kster · Post by **kster** » 13 Dec 2007 12:02

WW. If you are one of the few who loads up with bags of shopping then feel justified in driving. Most people find it far more of a nuisance never to park near their house than the occasional walk to the high street, and according to the Living streets survey most people are socially responsible and walk. My point is that if you are adding to the parking problem then you can’t really blame other people for trying to sort it out for themselves. As I said before, I’ve not paved over my garden but I can understand why people do it (I also wish that they wouldn’t). If a few people didn’t make unnecessary car trips and people made the best use of the free car park, then parking wouldn’t be the issue that it is and no-one would pay to pave over their front gardens.

Juwlz · Post by **Juwlz** » 13 Dec 2007 12:20

I can't see why anyone doing shopping in Sydenham would need to park in front of someone's house. There is ample free parking - especially when you compare it to other high streets. I often drive to the high street to shop because I live quite far from it and the free car park is never completely full whenever I've been there. There are also loads of 30 minute parking bays outside the shops.

If you go to East Dulwich, Forest Hill, Beckenham or even Penge to shop you often either have to pay, or else park in one of the side streets outside someone's house. I really don't think you have that problem in Sydenham.

castiron73 · Post by **castiron73** » 13 Dec 2007 13:03

It's shop workers who take up a lot of spaces in Earlsthorpe Road and they're there all day. Shoppers are only a temporary annoyance and there's a high turnover of spaces. School runs clog up roads but only involve five minutes of parking, so living near a school doesn't seem to be a reason to pave your garden - unless it's teachers?

pupak · Post by **pupak** » 13 Dec 2007 13:41

We bought a house this year and the previous owners had paved over the front garden but not payed to have the kerb dropped. When we looked into getting this done and I was shocked to see that it costs £2000! Needless to say we can't afford to pay for this after just buying a house. So I'm not surprised people are not paying for the kerb to be dropped.

leenewham · Post by **leenewham** » 4 Jan 2008 12:14

It depends how it's done, I dont lke them when they are just paved, there shoudl be something to soak up the water and some planting of some description.

As for safety, again this should be taken into concideraton when DESIGNING it.

Ginge · Post by **Ginge** » 4 Jan 2008 13:39

There's a new couple who have moved in directly opposite me and they've put a white line in front of their lowered curb that extends about 3 foot past the width of the drive on either side. I wouldn't mind but they've stuck a "gate in constant use" sign on their wall and they don't even own a car! They then had a go at me for parking on the white line (but not blocking the drive), this is hardly neighbourly and I won't even mention the griswoldesque Christmas tree in their front garden.

Sorry had to have a whinge as its pissed me off!

sophie · Post by **sophie** » 4 Jan 2008 16:17

A white line in front of a drive way surely doesn't mean anything?

Parking on my street is a nightmare as well. What would be the front garden to my property has been a parking space for as long as I've lived there and I imagine since the properties were converted (20 or so years ago). Many of the properties in our street are the same. We have a dropped kerb at the side which allows 1 car at a time to drive out. Across the rest of the drive way area is a regular pavement. I know that occupants of other properties have asked drivers to move their cars from this pavement area as they say they have been blocked in despite having the same kind of dropped pavement access as we have. Their assumption is that they have the right to drive in and out as they like.

On the subject of people changing their front gardens to parking and paying for a dropped pavement I think it is up to them and between them and the council as the council has to agree to the dropping of the pavement doesn't it? A car parked on a driveway doesn't, in my opinion, look any worse than an unkempt front garden space with various old kitchen applicances dumped in it.

poppy · Post by **poppy** » 7 Jan 2008 10:16

Well if you can't pay to have the pavement lowered then I think the rest of us are within our rights to park in front of the 'imaginary' drive.

Can anyone clarify if this is true? Although, I know this would probably end in confrontation with the owner of the house so can't see myself doing it because I prefer a quiet life and would rather be neighbourly, though reluctantly in this case...

castiron73 · Post by **castiron73** » 8 Jan 2008 00:51

If you can pay £2000 to have a kerb lowered and hence permanently reserve a section of road as wide as a car, the most logical thing for Lewisham to do would be to allow everyone to buy the parking space outside their home for the same money but marked only by simple white markings and a discreet house number. I'd buy two outside mine in case of visitors.

It would save front gardens, force shoppers into the car parks and be more profitable for Lewisham, as a dab of white paint costs far less than new kerb stones and tarmac.

(This is not the same as a controlled parking zone, which doesn't guarantee parking and is just a money spinner.)

By the way, tonight a huge HGV with a digger on the back from our local hauliers H Sivyer is parked in Kingsthorpe Road, taking up four spaces right next to a sign saying vehicles over 5 tons are banned at night. Makes a change from SG Smith vans.

kster · Post by **kster** » 8 Jan 2008 13:25

they've put a white line in front of their lowered curb that extends about 3 foot past the width of the drive on either side.

- Try reporting it to the council as graffiti and see if they remove it. In theory they should do.

poppy · Post by **poppy** » 27 Feb 2008 09:58

Either Harrow or Brent councils (or both, I'm not sure) are starting to erect bolards in front of people's 'drives' who have illegally made a drive without paying the council to lower the pavement - sometimes when the car is in the drive

johnnyb · Post by **johnnyb** » 27 Feb 2008 20:37

Somewhere on the TFL website (can't remember where but you should find it if you search for Dropped Kerb) it explains that a dropped kerb is an access and parking infront of one is considered obstruction of the highway and the police can tow cars for it.

People who have a drive but no dropped kerb have no access rights and so you can park infront of them whether the car is parked on it or not. Infact, it's illegal to drive a car over a standard kerb to get into a driveway. We rent a property with a garden drive and dropped kerb. I admit it isn't particularly attractive but we don't have any say over the matter as we're just tennants. Since we live near those hideous looking towerblocks in Lower Sydenham we feel safer keeping the car on the drive and it makes a big difference to our insurance.

White lines infront of drives are unenforceable, especially if it goes over a standard kerb so you're well within your rights to park on those ones that reach out 3 feet either side.

emmiedee · Post by **emmiedee** » 28 Feb 2008 16:54

I believe that police can tow away a vehicle blocking your drive (if the kerb is lowered) as long as it is blocking you in. If a vehicle is blocking an empty drive they won't do anything about it.

Jules · Post by **Jules** » 29 Feb 2008 13:24

How do you know if a drive is legal or not?
The row of houses where I live were all built with drive ways, but I'm not sure the kerbs have been dropped, they don't seem to be, however the kerbs are so low you can drive over them anyway. Is there anywhere to check if a particular drive is legal?

poppy · Post by **poppy** » 1 Mar 2008 14:54

Johnnyb, if we can park over those white lines, why does the council bother putting them there? Do you know? I assume the owner pays for this too...It does vary how far those lines extend beyond the drive as well, so I wonder what the rules, if any, there are on these?

I would also like to know (and I will look at Tfl) how some people seem to have the kerb lowered to allow one car access but manage to get TWO cars on their drives. Mmmm (some of them hanging over half the pavement)

My hubbie heard a piece on Radio 4 the other day where some researcher/campaigner said one and a half car spaces were lost each time someone coverted their front garden to a drive. So when people moan about how parking did not used to be a problem years ago in their roads, perhaps it's not just an increase in car ownership but the increase in the number of people who have destroyed their front gardens which is repsonsible.

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