Banning drinking in public

[Thomas]

Following on from comments made on another thread, I would like to pose the question of whether there should be a ban on drinking in public in Sydenham? And if so, should that apply to all of Sydenham or just part of it in which case, which part?

For example there are people who sit on the bench outside the Naborhood Centre drinking - should they be allowed to do so? It could be considered anti-social or intimidatory, but what actual harm do they do? Should the law enforcement agencies only get involved if they actually do any harm?

Would such a ban be an unfair infringement on civil liberties? Or are such considerations a price worth paying for the gentrification of Sydenham?

I am genuinely undecided on this and would welcome your views.

[bensonby]

I refer you to my last post on the other thread:

You are aware that there is no legal way (that I am aware of) of enacting an alcohol ban on a public highway?

[Thomas]

Thank you Bensonby - but plenty of other areas have such a ban so let's assume there are such powers to do this.

[bensonby]

Thank you Bensonby - but plenty of other areas have such a ban so let's assume there are such powers to do this.

No they don't. Where do they?

[Thomas]

Here is some more info for you Bensonby:
http://www.crimereduction.homeoffice.go ... ders01.htm

It would be nice to have a proper discussion on this and not get sidetracked by misguided pedants.

[bensonby]

I'll be a little less opaque.

Most "alcohol bans" in city centres &c. are not bans as such. They are "designated places" within the meaning of s.13 of the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001.

In such a "designated places" a constable can request/demand that a person stops drinking. (s.12) It is an offence not to stop drinking at this point.

Its quite a fair system as it allows a common sense approach and doesn't tar all drinkers with the same brush - or stop reasonable people enjoying themselves. For example, all of the London Borough of Southwark (except Dulwich) is a designated public place. This means that the police can stop your nuisance drinkers but leave your picnicers in the park with a bottle of wine alone. (unless you have a complete jobsworth of a police constable - or, I think, PCSO)

So no, a drinking ban is not necessery. Although thinking about it I suppose a byelaw could be written to that effect. but it really isn't necessery.

[bensonby]

Here is some more info for you Bensonby:
http://www.crimereduction.homeoffice.go ... ders01.htm

It would be nice to have a proper discussion on this and not get sidetracked by misguided pedants.

that's not a drinking ban. that's a designated public place. "Having the power" is different to "having the duty"

(despite what some police officers may think )

[Postman]

Theres always people sitting on the bench of the Post Office with cans of beer. I dont think i remember a time when they was'nt sitting there!

[lambchops]

an american friend of mine was amazed that we could go into the park with a bottle of wine...apparently the state that she is from it's illegal!

[Juwlz]

I don't want us to become like America and I don't think the people sitting on the bench outside the post office are doing anyone harm.

I think banning alcohol in Sydenham would be a terrible idea. Our civil liberties are being infringed enough as it is. Its like a drip-drip effect - one small change doesn't seem much - and next thing you know you won't be able to go to the park with a bottle of wine (and how come that's seen as acceptable but sitting on a bench with a can of special brew isn't??).

[Muddy Waters]

...until you have to step into the road at lunchtime as I did the other day to avoid a couple of the street drinkers having a "friendly dust up".

Also, although I dont feel in need of it yet, the company that occupy the seats outside the Post Office are probably more than a bit intimidating to an elderly person who might want rest their weary legs after the climb up Sydenham Road.

Finally, when (and I say that advisedly) we get our refurbed high street, will we really have to give pride of place to the centre of Sydenham Road to this sad crew?

Alcoholism is an illness - they need help - surely there must be a meeting place for them to go where such help could available if required?

[Juwlz]

Alcoholism is an illness - they need help - surely there must be a meeting place for them to go where such help could available if required?

Presumably if there was somewhere for them to go they wouldn't be on those benches. As far as I'm told some of the drinkers are from other places, such as Brockley, that have banned them. If Sydenham bans them too where will they go?? No one seems to care as long as its not in their back yard.

Anyway – if these drunks are getting violent presumably that's already an offence and they can be arrested and moved on for that within the current law anyway – no new rules needed!

[bensonby]

Anyway – if these drunks are getting violent presumably that's already an offence and they can be arrested and moved on for that within the current law anyway – no new rules needed!

Absolutely, there are more than enough laws as it is. Indeed, being drunk in a public place is, in itself, an offence.

[mummycat]

Since Penge, Catford and Lewisham have already banned drinking alcohol in public, Sydenham is seen as an attractive option for these bench occupiers. Especially with the number of small supermarkets and "wine shops" we have.

I see the guy with the lovely facial tattoo get off a bus in the morning, stay all day and then catch a bus back home at tea time. He must live in one of these alcohol-free towns.

[bensonby]

Since Penge, Catford and Lewisham have already banned drinking alcohol in public, Sydenham is seen as an attractive option for these bench occupiers. Especially with the number of small supermarkets and "wine shops" we have.

they have not banned drinking in these places! Drinking control zones are very different from a ban!

[leenewham]

Thank you Bensonby - but plenty of other areas have such a ban so let's assume there are such powers to do this.

No they don't. Where do they?

It's called a NDZ (no drinking zone). They have it in Lewisham Town Centre and Brockley among others places. It's enforced by the police.

[bensonby]

Thank you Bensonby - but plenty of other areas have such a ban so let's assume there are such powers to do this.

No they don't. Where do they?

It's called a NDZ (no drinking zone). They have it in Lewisham Town Centre and Brockley among others places. It's enforced by the police.

they can call it what they like....but it is still a "drinking control zone" as designated by the CJ&PA 2001. See it called as such here: http://www2.lewisham.gov.uk/lbl/council ... 141003.pdf


A police officer doesn't "enforce" it as such, they have the power - if they wish to use it - to confiscate open and unsealed containers of alcohol off people in these areas. This power doesn't exist in other areas (except for under 18s). There is a big difference, the police don't always take booze off people they see in these areas.

And as such it is not illegal to drink in public in those areas - unless a police officer tells you to stop.

[Thomas]

Thanks for responses so far - what I was trying to ask was "is public drinking a problem and if so what should be done about it?". There do appear to be a variety of means of addressing this, but what would you like to see happen? Are you intimidated by street drinking? Would you like to see some form of restriction on this?

[bensonby]

Most of the anti-social elements that often accompany drinking are already illegal....I can't see what a complete ban would achieve beyond penalising those who wish to drink responsibly.

[natbeuk]

Most of the anti-social elements that often accompany drinking are already illegal....I can't see what a complete ban would achieve beyond penalising those who wish to drink responsibly.

Agreed.

I have a problem with anti-social behaviours but I have no problem whatsoever with people drinking, responsibly, in public.