KFC in Savacentre grounds?

[Rachael]

You beat me to it, Mike. I was going to suggest that Swagger should at least be leashed, if not muzzled, before he huffs and puffs and blows our house down.

[Robin Orton]

The Wikipaedia article on 'R&B' says

Rhythm and blues, often abbreviated to R&B, is a genre of popular African-American music that originated in the 1940s.[...] Jerry Wexler of Billboard magazine coined the term "rhythm and blues" in 1948 as a musical marketing term in the United States. It replaced the term "race music", which originally came from within the black community, but was deemed offensive in the postwar world.

If that is right, it seems to me that if Swagger really wanted a phrase which would suggest badly behaved young men but without any racial connotations, he should have avoided 'R&B types'.

"I don't associate fried chicken or r n' b with black people" Just because you dont make the association doesnt mean it isnt so. You really should get out more.[...] I spent a year living practically opposite Bose chicken on Kirkdale, perhaps Rod and some of you others should spend some time up there seeing the kind of people that frequent it, lets see what kind of associations you then make.

I can only interpret this as meaning that in Great Bustard's view fried chicken shops are used a lot by young black men. If I am right (and if what s/he says is true) I'd be interested to hear from him'/her why s/he thinks that's relevant to the desirability or otherwise of having a new KFC in Sydenham.

Or perhaps there's a pair of wolves about?

[Robin Orton]

I was careful not to accuse anyone of being racist - I was only suggesting that Swagger's choice of words might inadvertently have given the impression of racism.

Even if Fried Chicken was ONLY eaten by black people, asserting you hated it would be no more racist than saying you hated Pizza would be anti-Italian

I agree, saying you hated R&B (I'm not sure I'm all that keen on it myself) or pizza wouldn't be racist. But talking in rather derogatory terms about 'pizza-eating types' could be misunderstood as implying that you took a low view of Italians. So it might be best avoided.

[CaptainCarCrash]

I think in all our interests the line is not fine. I fail to see how 'aspiring r 'n b artists and pond life' is racist or even close. How? It doesn't even mention race.

I'm amazed at the borderline paranoia on this forum. You say his 'stereotyping' is risky? Risky? Who cares. We live in a robust democracy where debate and opinion is a vital component in making the country work. We have a long tradition of free speech and personal, artistic and political expression. The word 'risky' should never be used in connection with a man or womans right to speak their mind.

Besides which, if we were for the sake of argument, to conclude that some sentiments are 'risky' Maria's repeated assertion and your implication that Swagger is racist (none of you have met him, nothing he says comes close to the definition of the word, he has clarified his point twice, never mentioned race and denied he is) is an ugly character slur on a public forum.

I think your advice on risky choices of words can be taken with a pinch of salt.

I've met him, he is BBW.

Also stereo typing people and posting random pictures of youths and pointing the finger is a good idea is it?

Nah mate, you is avin a laugh.

Innit.

[CaptainCarCrash]

Yeah - but you are now downgrading this to stereotyping, not racism. And that's hardly the worst crime is it? Have a look at that picture of Boris and Cameron in the Bullingdon Club. Try and describe it without using the phrase 'posh tw*t'. Difficult, isn't it?

Priviledged. See? Easy, isn't it?

I'm saying it can be interpreted as such, and it has been. Dress it up how you like rod, it is an emotive subject that some people would find offensive for many of the reasons already pointed out on this thread.

[CaptainCarCrash]

At worst, Swagger has taken the p*ss out of r n'b music! Not much of a crime is it?

He did not take this p*ss out of r n b music he alludded to the types of people who would like it and pond life etc which equates to sterotypical racism.

There is no point in arguing on this one as it is clear you are hell bent on defending the indefencable.

[Dorian]

Does anyone know if KFC are opening in the Savacentre grounds ?

[CaptainCarCrash]

Yes they are, everyone likes a bargain bucket.

Barbacue beans are nice, I like chicken tower zingers the best.

[Dorian]

Yes they are, everyone likes a bargain bucket.

And your source ?

[CaptainCarCrash]

Yes they are, everyone likes a bargain bucket.

And your source ?

TBH I don't really know

[Robin Orton]

I've met him, he is BBW.

Oh dear, have we all (apart from the sagacious Mike and the streetwise Rachael) been taken in yet again? Ah well. 'Il n'y a pas de hors-texte.' Perhaps error needs to be challenged, even if it comes from trolls.

[Dorian]

Perhaps error needs to be challenged, even if it comes from trolls.

So someone one disagree with is now a " troll " aswell as a "racist" ? isnt that a bit arbitrary ?

[Mazzer]

I think it’s important I respond again after my first post which clearly opened a can of worms. I probably should not have become involved when I did – I agree rshdunlop - but I was upset by what I’d read and I am a firm believer that racism that is not challenged is as bad as racism itself.

And so, to clarify: Swagger, I was pointing out that if, by ‘R’n’B types’, you mean young black men, then your comments are racist and I stand by this. You don’t have to know much to know that R’n’B is a music genre associated with black men, and you backed your own knowledge of this up by posting a picture of predominantly black men (the boy with the ‘brown legs’ is clearly black, the giveaway is in his black face and hands). If I said ‘Bhangra types’, posted a picture of a group of young Indian men, and then tried to argue that I wasn’t referring to any particular population group you’d think I was crackers! Even if one of the group in the picture wasn’t clearly Indian…

Your point, Swagger, was that ‘R’n’B types’ are the people that spend time in and around fried chicken shops, which may well be the case, and wouldn’t be an offensive point of view had your point not been punctuated with the following comments:


“I hope they'll have CCTV to capture all the inevitable friction between the aspiring RnB artists and pond life that'll feed and fight there.”

“Strange how fried chicken outlets only attract a less respectable clientele.”

“Fried chicken shops are notorious for attracting unsavoury elements. If you choose to go their of your own accord to purchase greasy junk food that's also enjoyed by aspiring RnB types with a chip on their shoulder, you'll get no sympathy from me if you're on the receiving end of any violent theft or behaviour that occurs in the shop you bought it from.”

“ your typical customer is either a slob with an attitude problem or a scowling 'youth'.”


Swagger, you then go on to defend yourself by suggesting that you are simply unhappy about ‘the attire these urchins are notorious for’, in your statements above it is clear it is not only the sartorial taste of the people that enjoy fried chicken that upsets you. But if you continue to insist that it is really only the ‘clothing associated with RnB musicians and their fans’ that you are concerned about, then really? Haven’t you got better things to worry about???!

Anyway, the reason I first wrote is because we need to understand the power our words have. Some might call it political correctness gone wrong, but in a city where research shows that children from Black and Minority Ethnic groups are aware that they are looked down upon by the white population by the age of three and frequently experience discrimination and harassment throughout their lives, is it any wonder that young people might end up with a ‘chip on their shoulder’? We can only start to make changes to the self-esteem and positive integration of everybody in our great city if we are careful to ensure that we do not reinforce the experience of those who have experienced prejudice. This is why, of course, indirect discrimination towards BME population groups is illegal.

Swagger, if you are actually a man who is seeking community cohesion, tolerance and equality across all ethnic groups in London, in order to make this city a better and safer place to live in, then you have been sorely misunderstood and I apologise. But I suspect this isn’t the case, is it??!

Oh, and mine’s a Chicken Toasted Twister!

[CaptainCarCrash]

Perhaps error needs to be challenged, even if it comes from trolls.

So someone one disagree with is now a " troll " aswell as a "racist" ? isnt that a bit arbitrary ?

Dorian is my favorite scale. if you were a scale which one would you be?

Swagger is BBW btw.

[benchef]

Perhaps error needs to be challenged, even if it comes from trolls.

So someone one disagree with is now a " troll " aswell as a "racist" ? isnt that a bit arbitrary ?

Dorian is my favorite scale. if you were a scale which one would you be?

Swagger is BBW btw.

Phrygian.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Robin Orton]

So someone one disagree with is now a " troll " aswell as a "racist" ? isnt that a bit arbitrary ?

If Swagger is indeed the late lamented Bigbadwolf, I don't think he'll mind being called a troll. If he isn't, I of course retract the slur.

Dorian is my favorite scale. if you were a scale which one would you be?

Richter.

[Dorian]

Dorian is my favorite scale. if you were a scale which one would you be?

"resort is had to ridicule only when reason is against us" Thomas Jefferson.

KFC in savacentre grounds ?

[CaptainCarCrash]

Phrygian.

Good choice, I like the Phrygian dominant which is the 5th mode of the Harmonic minor scale.

Think snake charming.

The Phrygian scale is very Spanish sounding

[Great Bustard]

Hey Mazzer (got a friend whos dog shares that name. i've read some garbage in my time but you have taken the biscuit , you have show yourself to be an expert in the art of arguing with pedantry and semantics.

Do you ever take off your rose tinted specs and blinkers and actually go out and about and see whats happening on the streets or do you believe all the garbage you are fed ?

youre like the bankers that wouldnt take their eyes off their screens to see what was really going on around them, no they were slaves to the data their expensive software algorithms churned out telling them everything was fine, meanwhile in the real world...................

[Robin Orton]

Is Mozart for whites?

No, but the number of black faces I see at classical music events, even in multi-ethnic Sydenham, is tiny.