I was in TD on Monday evening.
We were really impressed by the transformation, especially in such a short timescale - well done to the new owners!!
Non-smoking thing is great!! Sydenham is ahead of the game now.
Beers were very good, great selection and well kept.
Decor is very nice, amazing what decluttering, sanding the floors, refurbing the toilets and painting can do to a place, well done. Hopefully will see some good art going on the walls in the future as well.
As for the food - yes, it was tasty and enjoyable. To be honest (otherwise this thread could become a bit sycophantic), the food is not of the same standard as the Dartmouth Arms.
I realise it is not meant to be the same kind of offering - I just wish it was.
The Dartmouth Arms serves delicious "cheffy" food that I would struggle to cook myself, which is one way that I judge whether a meal is worth going out for. I would heartily recommend going there to eat.
The food in the dolphin (that we had on Monday) I could probably rustle up myself quite easily. That doesn't mean that its not good, in fact it was quite well cooked and seemed to have good ingredients, it just means that I would not rave about it. I guess most of it could be described as glorified bar-food / snacky stuff.
It would be dishonest and sycophantic to claim that it is really good - and would prob cause a backlash when people realise that it is not quite that amazing.
Apparently the kitchen is very small in the Dolphin - I think this may be a mistake. I hope they expand it.
Anyway, this is just a first impression from someone who did actually have some food - I noticed that a lot of people seemed to just be having drinks.
Obviously this is only my impression on the food, we obviously did not eat everything on the menu, and it was the first night, so they did quite well.
I am definitely not trying to be negative on this, just a bit of feedback for improvement.
I am delighted that the Dolphin is open, the owners deserve great credit for what they have achieved so far. There is massive potential there to build on what they have.
We had a very enjoyable evening there on Monday and we will be back regularly in future.
Looking forward to reading more opinions from everyone else.
The Dolphin
"I did notice two of the previous clientele made an entrance and looked utterly bewildered at what the fare on offer was (I noticed them being walked through the menu step-by-step) and I heard them moaning about the price, they certainly didn't seem to enjoy the new and improved Dolphin - GOOD. At least they'll spread the message amongst their kin and social circles. I'm sorry Leaf but I am not catered for nor are my tastes taken into the equations of those who run all the ther bars in Sydenham. It doesn't mean I'm saying that they won't be welcome Leaf, they just won't really fit in - there's no chicken in a basket or"
Im glad you now feel you have something that is for you in sydenham greg[and others like you],but why are your wants are more valid than someone elses just because you earn more?
It seems like some have a 'good,tough luck' attitude about those people who have been pushed out of their local watering hole,why is that ok?-oh of course its ok because its a change for the better yeah?
I wish the new owners good luck and i hope it is a great success-for everyone.
As i have said before on the middle class pubs thread,i think that is a contradiction in terms,pubs arent and never will be middle class-there is just a new breed of social establishment emerging-not a pub at all,i think someone should come up with a new name,then we will all know what we're getting?
Im glad you now feel you have something that is for you in sydenham greg[and others like you],but why are your wants are more valid than someone elses just because you earn more?
It seems like some have a 'good,tough luck' attitude about those people who have been pushed out of their local watering hole,why is that ok?-oh of course its ok because its a change for the better yeah?
I wish the new owners good luck and i hope it is a great success-for everyone.
As i have said before on the middle class pubs thread,i think that is a contradiction in terms,pubs arent and never will be middle class-there is just a new breed of social establishment emerging-not a pub at all,i think someone should come up with a new name,then we will all know what we're getting?
Last edited by leaf on 13 Dec 2006 12:27, edited 1 time in total.
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sydenhamboy
- Posts: 264
- Joined: 8 Oct 2006 10:33
- Location: sydenham
I hate to burst your bubble Greg, but I've heard there is a red switch behind the bar that, if gently pressed, 2 fruit machines are hydraulically lowered down; the Weiss bier option morphs into a 'Stella' only outlet; 3 Skydigital-only giant tv screens surface from below and a 'shower' of burberry caps fall from the ceiling. And to top it all a 'comical' peanut-packet rack emerges on the wall with a backdrop of 'ladies parts' that are revealed with the subsequent purchase and removal of each indivual packet.
It's true !!!
Little red switch.
Jest behind the bar.
If you look carefully.
It's true !!!
Little red switch.
Jest behind the bar.
If you look carefully.
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Greg Whitehead
- Posts: 474
- Joined: 11 Apr 2005 15:44
- Location: SE26 5RL
Exactly. The thing is Leaf I (and many others) am a victim of social exclusion, just diametrically opposite where you would generally expect to find it. If ever there was a collection of shops, pubs and restaurants so completely out of sync with the resident population then it would have to be Sydenham. I am not saying that every pub in Sydenham should become a gastropub as you need balance but yes, the ASBO crowd had their chance to keep the Dolphin and the Man of Kent solvent and they did such a good job the Dolphin's landlord did a moonlight flit and the MOK is fully boarded - it's my turn now.leaf wrote:Im glad you now feel you have something that is for you in sydenham greg[and others like you],but why are your wants are more valid than someone elses just because you earn more?
It seems like some have a 'good,tough luck' attitude about those people who have been pushed out of their local watering hole,why is that ok?-oh of course its ok because its a change for the better yeah?
I see where your coming from but surely you see my point of view? And boy will I support T.D at every turn, after all I have what keeps a business in business - money. You cater for my needs and in return I spend money with you - simple as that. It's a change for the better, yes. That view may not sit overly comfortably with you Leaf but it seems I'm not the lone dissenting voice I thought I was. Funny how (and of course it's early days) as I walked past the Fox&Hounds, Greyhound, Railway, TwoHalfs yadeeyadeeya last night - guess which pub had more bums on seats by a country mile?
Answers on a postcard.
@ sydenhamboy - what's the penalty for misuse if this button is pressed in error? Being forced to move "Norf a the riva'"? Two pints in the Greyhound and using the loos there?
Last edited by Greg Whitehead on 13 Dec 2006 15:25, edited 1 time in total.
I agree with Greg.
In the eight years I have lived in Sydenham, there was no pub I would willingly choose to drink in, prior to Monday night. That may label me as a snob. So be it. I believe the essence of where you spend your leisure time is personal choice. Now, since Monday, there is finally one choice available to me: The Dolphin. For those who don't like it, there are still four other pubs within 300 yards of the station that uphold the principles of terrible service, crap lager, punch-ups, drugs, Sky TV, tattoos and teenagers in Burberry caps.
All I've ever wanted is the choice of somewhere without those things.
I also think it is wrong to couch this argument in terms of working-class and middle-class, especially with regard to income. Class boundaries are terribly blurred these days. Even if you accept -- which I don't -- the existence of such classes, the financial distinction between them is often (in my personal experience) the reverse of what you would expect it to be.
There only seems to be two classes these days anyway: working-class (anyone who earns their money legally) and under-class (anyone who doesn't).
In the eight years I have lived in Sydenham, there was no pub I would willingly choose to drink in, prior to Monday night. That may label me as a snob. So be it. I believe the essence of where you spend your leisure time is personal choice. Now, since Monday, there is finally one choice available to me: The Dolphin. For those who don't like it, there are still four other pubs within 300 yards of the station that uphold the principles of terrible service, crap lager, punch-ups, drugs, Sky TV, tattoos and teenagers in Burberry caps.
All I've ever wanted is the choice of somewhere without those things.
I also think it is wrong to couch this argument in terms of working-class and middle-class, especially with regard to income. Class boundaries are terribly blurred these days. Even if you accept -- which I don't -- the existence of such classes, the financial distinction between them is often (in my personal experience) the reverse of what you would expect it to be.
There only seems to be two classes these days anyway: working-class (anyone who earns their money legally) and under-class (anyone who doesn't).
At risk of going over old ground!......
I do agree that your needs were not being met in sydenham greg,but its not that far to forest hill[DA],we have discussed this before at length,but sydenham IS a working class area,there may be more 'middle class' folk living here now,but they by no means make up a large part of the population,also i think peoples own snobbery comes into it a great deal,i think there is less of a divide between working class and middle class than there ever was,working class people now earn more than ever and lots own a home[something that im sure you know was never common amongst working class people],i think that the medias invention of terms like 'chav' which has come to mean basically working class people are a ruse to show a division between WC and MC that really in terms of what people have[ie job type and home ownership]arent that different.
I think there are lots of people who claim to be middle class when really they are far from it,someone having been to university is no longer exclusive to the middle and upper classes,but this is often where the tearaway point begins,there is less of a division than there used to be and i think new points of division are being created-i think that those who are repelled by 'chavviness' the most are the ones who are seeking to distance themselves from it...........
I also think that the middle classes NEED to be able to look down on working class folk as they are forever haunted by their feelings of inferiority under the upper classes!
I do agree that your needs were not being met in sydenham greg,but its not that far to forest hill[DA],we have discussed this before at length,but sydenham IS a working class area,there may be more 'middle class' folk living here now,but they by no means make up a large part of the population,also i think peoples own snobbery comes into it a great deal,i think there is less of a divide between working class and middle class than there ever was,working class people now earn more than ever and lots own a home[something that im sure you know was never common amongst working class people],i think that the medias invention of terms like 'chav' which has come to mean basically working class people are a ruse to show a division between WC and MC that really in terms of what people have[ie job type and home ownership]arent that different.
I think there are lots of people who claim to be middle class when really they are far from it,someone having been to university is no longer exclusive to the middle and upper classes,but this is often where the tearaway point begins,there is less of a division than there used to be and i think new points of division are being created-i think that those who are repelled by 'chavviness' the most are the ones who are seeking to distance themselves from it...........
I also think that the middle classes NEED to be able to look down on working class folk as they are forever haunted by their feelings of inferiority under the upper classes!
You seem to be suggesting that anyone who isn't working class (your definition) should get on the bus and go to Forest Hill to drink. That seems a little unfair. Snobbery works both ways.
Just as Generals are criticised for fighting each war according to the out-dated rules of the previous one, it seems that class warriors fall into the same trap. The famous John Cleese/Ronnie Barker/Ronnie Corbett sketch from the 1960s seems to be etched in minds. "I look up to him because he is upper-class... I look down on him because he is working-class. I am middle-class". It's really hard to imagine where, in our bit of South London, this class structure exists.
Also, the idea that 'chaviness' is a sneaky attempt by the middle-class to label undesirable attributes of the working class is, at best, misguided, and at worst, insulting to the working class. 'Chavs' are most definitely NOT working class. Chavs don't work.
That is the point.
Just as Generals are criticised for fighting each war according to the out-dated rules of the previous one, it seems that class warriors fall into the same trap. The famous John Cleese/Ronnie Barker/Ronnie Corbett sketch from the 1960s seems to be etched in minds. "I look up to him because he is upper-class... I look down on him because he is working-class. I am middle-class". It's really hard to imagine where, in our bit of South London, this class structure exists.
Also, the idea that 'chaviness' is a sneaky attempt by the middle-class to label undesirable attributes of the working class is, at best, misguided, and at worst, insulting to the working class. 'Chavs' are most definitely NOT working class. Chavs don't work.
That is the point.
Leaf - the social structure of Forest Hill ward is almost identical to that of Sydenham West and East. Sydenham isn't largely a working class area and it's becoming less so by the day. I won't bore you but I can produce all of the social indices statistics if you like.
The fact is that many of the well-off - the middle class if you want to call them that - are put off by the high street, and seldom go there. (We do 95% of our shopping in the high street incidentally).
To suggest that all of the comparatively well-off should go to the DA is simply crazy. I want a high street in Sydenham with a variety of shops - pound shops as well as places like The Dolphin. Greg is right - Sydenham road is completely out of sync with the population of the area.
The Dolphin is a delight. We have been in their both nights. Long may it continue and let's hope it's the first of many such new ventures along the high street.
By the way, I don't buy this line that the lines between classes are blurred or indistinct or that "we're all working class/one big happy family now". Sydenham is very clearly divided between one group and the other. Just walk around the area and take a look. The future will see this division getting wider.
The fact is that many of the well-off - the middle class if you want to call them that - are put off by the high street, and seldom go there. (We do 95% of our shopping in the high street incidentally).
To suggest that all of the comparatively well-off should go to the DA is simply crazy. I want a high street in Sydenham with a variety of shops - pound shops as well as places like The Dolphin. Greg is right - Sydenham road is completely out of sync with the population of the area.
The Dolphin is a delight. We have been in their both nights. Long may it continue and let's hope it's the first of many such new ventures along the high street.
By the way, I don't buy this line that the lines between classes are blurred or indistinct or that "we're all working class/one big happy family now". Sydenham is very clearly divided between one group and the other. Just walk around the area and take a look. The future will see this division getting wider.
I know I am a newbie to this forum (although I have been a long-time lurker), but it does amaze me how this topic seems to veer off into the whole massive discussion of the class system....
Guess that's a bit cheeky of me to say so, hope I don't get flamed
Back on topic:
I would love to know who else has eaten at the Dolphin and what you thought of the food ??
Or are people intending to just drink there?
Guess that's a bit cheeky of me to say so, hope I don't get flamed
Back on topic:
I would love to know who else has eaten at the Dolphin and what you thought of the food ??
Or are people intending to just drink there?
But leaf, it works both ways. I've been called a "yuppy c***" whilst entering TDA. I don't think I'm a yuppy and I'm certainly not the other! What I am is someone who wants to enjoy a pint and perhaps some food in a pleasant and non-threatening atmosphere. Why is it ok for someone to judge/insult me on my choice of watering hole, but not for Greg or anyone else to judge them on theirs? Variety is the spice of life..all we're asking for is some variety and we can all choose where we go.
As for Sydenham being a working class area..all I'll say is that there are scores of people that I see at the station each morning who do not fit that sterotype and who are not currently catered for, or at least weren't. So I and they have to go to Forest Hill or East Dulwich for a drink just because we have a job?! Try taking a train into town from Penge East one morning and see the difference between people on the platform there and at Sydenham. I'd echo other people on this thread, if ever there were a high street that was falling out of sync with it's population it was Sydenham.
As for Sydenham being a working class area..all I'll say is that there are scores of people that I see at the station each morning who do not fit that sterotype and who are not currently catered for, or at least weren't. So I and they have to go to Forest Hill or East Dulwich for a drink just because we have a job?! Try taking a train into town from Penge East one morning and see the difference between people on the platform there and at Sydenham. I'd echo other people on this thread, if ever there were a high street that was falling out of sync with it's population it was Sydenham.
Well,i knew that would touch a nerve!
"Also, the idea that 'chaviness' is a sneaky attempt by the middle-class to label undesirable attributes of the working class is, at best, misguided, and at worst, insulting to the working class. 'Chavs' are most definitely NOT working class. Chavs don't work.
That is the point."
I said that 'chav' was a MEDIA invention,not a middle class one.
The term was first used to describe a group of young people who were considered undesirable[loud,vulgar,drunken,tattoos you get the picture],the term has now morphed into being used to describe anyone who lives in a council house/flat,buys goods in iceland,argos et al,basically anyone who isnt what we would consider middle class[so by default,working class],personally i hate the word/term,it is a bastardisation of another word from a language that most of you wouldnt even know about-anyone?
re the dartmouth arms-i suggested that as an alternative for those who dont like the greyhound etc because it has previously been mentioned.
randomv;
"As for Sydenham being a working class area..all I'll say is that there are scores of people that I see at the station each morning who do not fit that sterotype and who are not currently catered for, or at least weren't. So I and they have to go to Forest Hill or East Dulwich for a drink just because we have a job?!"
So anyone who drinks in sydenham doesnt have a job?!!
Im sure someone could come up with statistics to show how sydenham has a mixed social bunch,thats because loads of middle class people[or those who aspire to be so]have bought properties in this area,they have bought them cheaper than lots of other parts of london...why is that?......because sydenham IS a working class area,albeit an up and coming one.
I have lived in sydenham all of my life,i know what this place is about,i have seen the changes over the years including the different types of people who have moved into the area,there were always middle class folk here,but they lived in particular areas and roads with beautiful large houses,now there are lots more,but they are here because the houses are cheaper than other parts of london,that and the fact that they cant afford dulwich!
Greg can criticise all he likes,he has done in the past and that is his right,i dont think he was particularly critical on this thread anyway?
Similarly i can also say what i like,i dont think it is anyones 'right' to be catered for in any area.
"Also, the idea that 'chaviness' is a sneaky attempt by the middle-class to label undesirable attributes of the working class is, at best, misguided, and at worst, insulting to the working class. 'Chavs' are most definitely NOT working class. Chavs don't work.
That is the point."
I said that 'chav' was a MEDIA invention,not a middle class one.
The term was first used to describe a group of young people who were considered undesirable[loud,vulgar,drunken,tattoos you get the picture],the term has now morphed into being used to describe anyone who lives in a council house/flat,buys goods in iceland,argos et al,basically anyone who isnt what we would consider middle class[so by default,working class],personally i hate the word/term,it is a bastardisation of another word from a language that most of you wouldnt even know about-anyone?
re the dartmouth arms-i suggested that as an alternative for those who dont like the greyhound etc because it has previously been mentioned.
randomv;
"As for Sydenham being a working class area..all I'll say is that there are scores of people that I see at the station each morning who do not fit that sterotype and who are not currently catered for, or at least weren't. So I and they have to go to Forest Hill or East Dulwich for a drink just because we have a job?!"
So anyone who drinks in sydenham doesnt have a job?!!
Im sure someone could come up with statistics to show how sydenham has a mixed social bunch,thats because loads of middle class people[or those who aspire to be so]have bought properties in this area,they have bought them cheaper than lots of other parts of london...why is that?......because sydenham IS a working class area,albeit an up and coming one.
I have lived in sydenham all of my life,i know what this place is about,i have seen the changes over the years including the different types of people who have moved into the area,there were always middle class folk here,but they lived in particular areas and roads with beautiful large houses,now there are lots more,but they are here because the houses are cheaper than other parts of london,that and the fact that they cant afford dulwich!
Greg can criticise all he likes,he has done in the past and that is his right,i dont think he was particularly critical on this thread anyway?
Similarly i can also say what i like,i dont think it is anyones 'right' to be catered for in any area.
I think it was pretty obvious I wasn't suggesting that anyone who drinks in Sydenham doesn't have a job. I was objecting to your suggestion that if I don't like the Greyhound et al then I should get on a bus and go elsewhere.
what I was saying, and perhaps not articulately enough, is that there is a huge difference in the people you see on the train platform at Sydenham and at Penge East. Penge is what I would call a working class area. Sydenham has a much more varied and cosmopolitan population. That is not to say that it is a middle class area - this is London - it is characterised by it's diversity!
I'm sorry leaf, but what you are saying smacks of inverted snobbery. I'm not a professional, I don't come from a priviledged background and I didn't move to Sydenham because it was cheaper than Dulwich. Yet you seem to be saying that because my idea of a pleasant night out doesn't involve having a pint of wife beater (no I'm not saying all Sydenham pub drinkers practice domestic violence!!!) spillt over me whilst being letched at by some foul mouthed bloke who stinks of B&H, that I can live in Sydenham, so long as I stick to this road but not that street and as long as I don't expect to have anywhere that meets my requirements within walking distance. It's ridiculous!
what I was saying, and perhaps not articulately enough, is that there is a huge difference in the people you see on the train platform at Sydenham and at Penge East. Penge is what I would call a working class area. Sydenham has a much more varied and cosmopolitan population. That is not to say that it is a middle class area - this is London - it is characterised by it's diversity!
I'm sorry leaf, but what you are saying smacks of inverted snobbery. I'm not a professional, I don't come from a priviledged background and I didn't move to Sydenham because it was cheaper than Dulwich. Yet you seem to be saying that because my idea of a pleasant night out doesn't involve having a pint of wife beater (no I'm not saying all Sydenham pub drinkers practice domestic violence!!!) spillt over me whilst being letched at by some foul mouthed bloke who stinks of B&H, that I can live in Sydenham, so long as I stick to this road but not that street and as long as I don't expect to have anywhere that meets my requirements within walking distance. It's ridiculous!
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castiron73
- Posts: 132
- Joined: 24 Oct 2006 10:05
- Location: Sydenham Thorpes
Statisticians and market researchers define classes in lots of ways. It's mainly based on income but I think attitude is more important, eg how many types of pasta do you have in your cupboard, or does it only come in tins?
My parents are working class. I went to uni and I think my children will be middle class. But I shop at Argos and Waitrose.
We moved to Sydenham because we were starting a family. We could have afforded a (slightly smaller) house in East Dulwich. We chose not to because the property here was nicer and to us Lordship Lane isn't quite real. I'd hate to have to go to church every Sunday to get my kids in Dulwich Hamlets school, just to fit in with everyone else.
Friends of ours who have just moved there were warned by a neighbour that they would have to do up their house for Halloween trick or treaters, 'because that's what we do here'. Our neighbours are very friendly and not simply obsessed with property prices and the PTA.
It's a shame that Sydenham seems to have gone more downmarket since we moved here (I think that was down to Savacentre and not me). The fishmonger closed and the traditional butcher couldn't compete, and a pawn shop opened. But what we don't have, that ED has, is many shopkeepers with a middle class attitude. The Dolphin is a very welcome addition because it's realised that there are a lot of people who don't mind paying a bit more for quality. Most other shops, with notable exceptions, are trying to go the opposite way in a desperate bid to attract custom.
If only they would think about specialising a bit more I think they might have more chance of saving the high street.
You can't blame traders for catering to the shoppers that are about during work hours, but I wish more would also cater for the commuters outside of normal hours and 'middle class' parents and others who are at home.
My parents are working class. I went to uni and I think my children will be middle class. But I shop at Argos and Waitrose.
We moved to Sydenham because we were starting a family. We could have afforded a (slightly smaller) house in East Dulwich. We chose not to because the property here was nicer and to us Lordship Lane isn't quite real. I'd hate to have to go to church every Sunday to get my kids in Dulwich Hamlets school, just to fit in with everyone else.
Friends of ours who have just moved there were warned by a neighbour that they would have to do up their house for Halloween trick or treaters, 'because that's what we do here'. Our neighbours are very friendly and not simply obsessed with property prices and the PTA.
It's a shame that Sydenham seems to have gone more downmarket since we moved here (I think that was down to Savacentre and not me). The fishmonger closed and the traditional butcher couldn't compete, and a pawn shop opened. But what we don't have, that ED has, is many shopkeepers with a middle class attitude. The Dolphin is a very welcome addition because it's realised that there are a lot of people who don't mind paying a bit more for quality. Most other shops, with notable exceptions, are trying to go the opposite way in a desperate bid to attract custom.
If only they would think about specialising a bit more I think they might have more chance of saving the high street.
You can't blame traders for catering to the shoppers that are about during work hours, but I wish more would also cater for the commuters outside of normal hours and 'middle class' parents and others who are at home.
nasaroc said;
"By the way, I don't buy this line that the lines between classes are blurred or indistinct or that "we're all working class/one big happy family now". Sydenham is very clearly divided between one group and the other. Just walk around the area and take a look. The future will see this division getting wider".
I dont buy that either, i certainly dont think we are one big happy family,i think that in monetry terms there is often little in it,but i do think that some people seek to divide and do this by highlighting the cultural differences in a negative way.
"By the way, I don't buy this line that the lines between classes are blurred or indistinct or that "we're all working class/one big happy family now". Sydenham is very clearly divided between one group and the other. Just walk around the area and take a look. The future will see this division getting wider".
I dont buy that either, i certainly dont think we are one big happy family,i think that in monetry terms there is often little in it,but i do think that some people seek to divide and do this by highlighting the cultural differences in a negative way.
Some interesting points there castiron73
"My parents are working class. I went to uni and I think my children will be middle class."
Does that mean that you think you are middle class?
Im not being confrontational,i am asking because i am interested to hear where people think this transformation begins.[from working class to middle class]
"My parents are working class. I went to uni and I think my children will be middle class."
Does that mean that you think you are middle class?
Im not being confrontational,i am asking because i am interested to hear where people think this transformation begins.[from working class to middle class]
Perhaps that just reflects the majority of people on this board? Or perhaps it's easy to miss the humour in a post? I really don't know..leaf wrote:randomv
I get your points,but what i find ridiculous is that it is ok on this forum to make HUGE sweeping generalisations about working class folk and those that actually like drinking in sydenham,but not about 'middle class' folk.
But do you think there aren't punters in the Greyhound, Railway or Two Half's making equally huge sweeping generalisations about the "yuppy c***s" currently making their way to The Dolphin?
"But do you think there aren't punters in the Greyhound, Railway or Two Half's making equally huge sweeping generalisations about the "yuppy c***s" currently making their way to The Dolphin?"
There may well be,especially if they are the poor sods who have been turfed out of the dolphin!!
but as i said they dont matter because they are 'only' the working classes eh?
There may well be,especially if they are the poor sods who have been turfed out of the dolphin!!
but as i said they dont matter because they are 'only' the working classes eh?
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castiron73
- Posts: 132
- Joined: 24 Oct 2006 10:05
- Location: Sydenham Thorpes
Leaf, personally I think you can never really change your class, only pretend to. My children will be brought up middle class and they will feel much more at home being so than I ever will. (Or perhaps they will pretend to be working class, like a lot of middle class kids do.)
Having grown up on a council estate, I know that poor people aren't all chavs and I think it's only being used here for comic effect. My parents wanted the best for me and set me off on the road to a degree and a good job. But they didn't have a clue about middle class taste and etiquette. I've learnt enough to get by through uni and so now my kids have an advantage. They're only 2 and 4 and have already eaten more foods than I had before I was 21.
But you have to agree that some people have scummy attitudes. Blame the parents, the state, the schools, whatever, but some people are so violently rude! OK, so calling someone a yuppy C can only come from an inferiority complex, but my mum would still kill me if I used language like that.
In the summer I was in Mayow Park with my kids when I saw a woman with her six girls playing hide and seek. She had the 'Croydon facelift' hairstyle and pedal-pushers of an estate mum but my thought was only: 'How sweet.'
Then the girls started picking all the roses, like a plague of locusts.
'Excuse me!' I said. 'Can you stop your girls doing that? The flowers are for everyone.'
But she just snarled: 'What's your business? They like pickin 'em.'
'Well, I'll, er call, the police,' I said, feebly.
She turned and pointed at her backside.
'Talk to the arse,' she said, 'cos the face ain't listenin'.'
'I'm sorry,' I said, 'but I can't tell the difference.' Then I dragged my kids home sharpish.
It's a nice anecdote for dinner parties but it sums up what is wrong with a large minority of people all over the country. Jerry Springer
Having grown up on a council estate, I know that poor people aren't all chavs and I think it's only being used here for comic effect. My parents wanted the best for me and set me off on the road to a degree and a good job. But they didn't have a clue about middle class taste and etiquette. I've learnt enough to get by through uni and so now my kids have an advantage. They're only 2 and 4 and have already eaten more foods than I had before I was 21.
But you have to agree that some people have scummy attitudes. Blame the parents, the state, the schools, whatever, but some people are so violently rude! OK, so calling someone a yuppy C can only come from an inferiority complex, but my mum would still kill me if I used language like that.
In the summer I was in Mayow Park with my kids when I saw a woman with her six girls playing hide and seek. She had the 'Croydon facelift' hairstyle and pedal-pushers of an estate mum but my thought was only: 'How sweet.'
Then the girls started picking all the roses, like a plague of locusts.
'Excuse me!' I said. 'Can you stop your girls doing that? The flowers are for everyone.'
But she just snarled: 'What's your business? They like pickin 'em.'
'Well, I'll, er call, the police,' I said, feebly.
She turned and pointed at her backside.
'Talk to the arse,' she said, 'cos the face ain't listenin'.'
'I'm sorry,' I said, 'but I can't tell the difference.' Then I dragged my kids home sharpish.
It's a nice anecdote for dinner parties but it sums up what is wrong with a large minority of people all over the country. Jerry Springer
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Greg Whitehead
- Posts: 474
- Joined: 11 Apr 2005 15:44
- Location: SE26 5RL
Why is it any thread I start ends up being [occasionally] a) phenomenally popular and b) causes divisons? I give you 'Middle Class Pubs' as one example...
Let's maybe keep the class thread to another string? Once more, two cheers! to Michael & Violeta for finally giving us a chance to prove that if something we wish to frequent exists in the locale we will use it.
Let's maybe keep some of this 'hot-air' for another day - I fear it has a few more miles to run. Might be best to show our support and feelings toward T.D. [God help me, this acronym WILL stick) by going there and eating & drinking (in the correct manner of course). Thereby ensuring and proving that there are enough odious snobs such as I in Syd to keep it going and make it a success!?
Let's maybe keep the class thread to another string? Once more, two cheers! to Michael & Violeta for finally giving us a chance to prove that if something we wish to frequent exists in the locale we will use it.
Let's maybe keep some of this 'hot-air' for another day - I fear it has a few more miles to run. Might be best to show our support and feelings toward T.D. [God help me, this acronym WILL stick) by going there and eating & drinking (in the correct manner of course). Thereby ensuring and proving that there are enough odious snobs such as I in Syd to keep it going and make it a success!?