Town Pub

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Re: Town Pub

Postby rod taylor » 9 Mar 2016 09:57

Maria wrote:When recently many of our neighbours held our local annual new year celebration the Forum came up on the conversation. Except from me, the consensus was that it was a total waste of time where negative, aggressive, hostile, and/or provocative opinions are not so much discussed as thrown at each other


I've been thinking about this quite a bit. Maria's neighbours are quite correct in their assesment - I mean I could usefully counter that the vast majority of posts on the forum don't conform to the above, but absolutely many do.

I've tried to react to some of the points raised in this thread, and I've changed my approach to this forum accordingly. Interestingly it hasn't stopped the personal nature of some of the responses. So much so that I'm wondering if it isn't so much how you say something that prompts 'negative' and 'hostile' replies but what you say.

Which is a little more worrying - and something that is increasingly reflected in wider society.

Having said that, I've still got work to do to become a completely reformed character - I still imply a contempt for whole swathes of society too often to be seemly; (not so much a lack of love for my brother/sister humanity but an attempt to define myself against) but it's work in progress :) .
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Re: Town Pub

Postby Robin Orton » 9 Mar 2016 10:14

My main complaint about the pub as it is at the moment is not that its tone is 'negative, aggressive, hostile, and/or provocative' but that it's boring. This is, I guess, largely because so few of us regularly frequent it that none of us have anything new to say - we just repackage the same old arguments (or assertions), nobody is convinced by them, so we give up. We desperately need new blood. Perhaps the pub should appoint a marketing manager to attract a new, young, dynamic, intelligent, well-mannered, well-informed and witty clientele.
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Re: Town Pub

Postby rod taylor » 9 Mar 2016 10:45

Robin Orton wrote:Perhaps the pub should appoint a marketing manager to attract a new, young, dynamic, intelligent, well-mannered, well-informed and witty clientele.


Since the entire Town Pub has been no-platformed now I'm not sure we're really going to engage with a younger generation already loathed to communicate with anyone they disagree with.
Last edited by rod taylor on 9 Mar 2016 10:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Town Pub

Postby Rachael » 9 Mar 2016 10:49

If it helps put things in perspective, I've always found most of the Pub boring. Not because the people who post there are boring but because I'm not interested in most of the discussions and find it odd that they'd be on a LOCAL forum.
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Re: Town Pub

Postby rod taylor » 9 Mar 2016 10:51

Rachael wrote:If it helps put things in perspective, I've always found most of the Pub boring. Not because the people who post there are boring but because I'm not interested in most of the discussions and find it odd that they'd be on a LOCAL forum.


But isn't it easy just to ignore it? I never go in Town Kids or Town Stadium and the odd week goes by I don't check into the Town Pub. As someone mentioned the rolling feed on the front page might omit Pub entries. I'm not sure if that's possible.

If you go out in Sydenham and bump into someone you know you don't just talk about Sydenham. We all live here, but Sydenham forms part of our aspect - it is a central hub from which we view the world. It would be disengenuous not to acknowledge our worldview isn't informed by this. We have more in common than we think.

I also think it's interesting how we are navigating this brave new world of democracy of opinion. Until the last decade a working class man or woman born just after the war was essentially silent. He or she might have shared their opinions on the world with a few people they know; very occasionally write a letter to a newspaper. The internet has given so many people a new voice.

But this equality of opportunity is gradually becoming the same hierarchies again. No-platforming and more and more specialist discourse amongst and only including same interest groups. As a society we simply cannot deal with this new democracy of opinion and the system is correcting itself.

So I suggest renaming it Town Conversation. You could limit the amount of words in each post to encourage real-time interaction and change the format of the section...x is speaking... and so on. It would mean Sydenham was leading the way in 'live' community discussion.
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Re: Town Pub

Postby Rachael » 9 Mar 2016 12:40

I do mostly ignore it. It's a question, though, of what drives traffic to a given section. Sports, kids stuff, local info, they all generate both posts and reactions. The Pub doesn't have a USP to attract new people to contribute. Local people discussing non-local issues. It's not very grabbing to the passer-by.
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Re: Town Pub

Postby Robin Orton » 9 Mar 2016 17:44

Rachael wrote: I've always found most of the Pub boring. Not because the people who post there are boring but because I'm not interested in most of the discussions... .


In my experience virtually any subject (except of course cycling) can be made interesting if it is presented in a lively and engaging way.
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Re: Town Pub

Postby JRobinson » 10 Mar 2016 15:07

If all of Maria's friends contributed, the tone would soon change, and they'd get others involved by word of mouth.

however I fear that internet forums are on the decline due to a lot of similar stuff happening on Facebook. There are many and varied local groups on Facebook already, that STF is mostly a replication of other stuff already out there, in an easier format to access.
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Re: Town Pub

Postby Pally » 10 Mar 2016 17:26

JRobinson wrote:If all of Maria's friends contributed, the tone would soon change, and they'd get others involved by word of mouth.


Good point ...but needs a few as lone voices cant do it, they just tend to get ignored!
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Re: Town Pub

Postby rod taylor » 6 Apr 2016 07:01

JRobinson wrote:however I fear that internet forums are on the decline due to a lot of similar stuff happening on Facebook. There are many and varied local groups on Facebook already, that STF is mostly a replication of other stuff already out there, in an easier format to access.


The pity of the Town Pub being wound down is that it is one of the few places where you can access a cross-section of views.

I don't do social media, but I gather that facebook, almost by definition, groups people socially, and therefore, to a great extent, by political persuasion. I know that the left in London is sometimes surprised by events beyond their borders, cocooned as it is within its own self-selecting world.

But this is where the world is going - social media means you don't really have to worry that anyone you might be communicating with has dramatically different views or experiences from your own. Having said that I'm really not sure of the use of the Town Pub section any more. I think when a post on the Town Pub gets 10 views in 24 hours then it starts to feel like a half-empty party. It should probably be put out of its misery.
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Re: Town Pub

Postby Robin Orton » 22 Apr 2016 06:42

Another brave attempt by Nigel to introduce a new topic into the pub discussions and to create a welcoming atmosphere for potential new customers. I think we should all be very grateful to him and Eagle for their sterling work. I'm sure it will bear fruit eventually.
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Re: Town Pub

Postby rod taylor » 22 Apr 2016 16:13

Robin Orton wrote:Another brave attempt by Nigel to introduce a new topic into the pub discussions and to create a welcoming atmosphere for potential new customers. I think we should all be very grateful to him and Eagle for their sterling work. I'm sure it will bear fruit eventually.


I'm not really sure I understand the classifications any more. As I understood it the Town Cafe was more conversational now, so therefore I don't see the role of the Town Pub, unless it is for discussions that are more of a debate than a conversation. I understand that the debate-style is off putting for so many people, so therefore what is the point in the Town Pub?

I find it mildly diverting to discuss the Middle East situation as a kind of mental frisbee-throwing exercise to break up a long working day; but I also understand that doing so is kind of irrelevant to the raison d'etre of the whole site.

I had a quick look at some back pages, and for a few years after the early announcement of the death of Heath Ledger the Town Pub was quite conversational, only really becoming political in 2011, a point at which the range of posters diminished.
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Re: Town Pub

Postby mosy » 22 Apr 2016 21:51

Recently I have noticed that it is the rod taylor and _HB show giving short shrift to differing views from their seemingly joint one. Even I, as a seasoned poster, see little point lately of "interfering" as I guess other seasoned posters have found since they're not exactly fighting for space either. If there is a deliberate intention of reducing the sub forum to zero, then just come out and say so.
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Re: Town Pub

Postby rod taylor » 22 Apr 2016 21:57

mosy wrote:Recently I have noticed that it is the rod taylor and _HB show giving short shrift to differing views from their seemingly joint one. Even I, as a seasoned poster, see little point lately of "interfering" as I guess other seasoned posters have found since they're not exactly fighting for space either. If there is a deliberate intention of reducing the sub forum to zero, then just come out and say so.


That strikes me as a hugely unfair comment. I'm sorry, it really does. I've done everything I can to ask questions and stimulate discussion. It really feels very unjust that I'd be lumped in as part of the problem. I said several times I was trying to post in the spirit of friendly discussion. That really gets to me, Mosy, sorry but it does.
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Re: Town Pub

Postby Pally » 23 Apr 2016 06:17

I don't get the impression of a 2 person show ...however I find that when I comment people are so caught up in their debate with probably one or two individuals, my comments get completely ignored! That's probably also because I'm not usually throwing in links and historical references, just giving an opinion. I've noticed others comments completely ignored as well. Anyway because of that I have just about given up bothering tho' I do still occasionally pop in a comment!
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Re: Town Pub

Postby Robin Orton » 23 Apr 2016 07:45

Pally wrote: That's probably also because I'm not usually throwing in links and historical references, just giving an opinion.

The trouble with 'just giving an opinion' is that it's often difficult to respond other than by saying 'I agree' or 'I disagree'.
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Re: Town Pub

Postby Pally » 23 Apr 2016 14:08

Robin Orton wrote:
Pally wrote: That's probably also because I'm not usually throwing in links and historical references, just giving an opinion.

The trouble with 'just giving an opinion' is that it's often difficult to respond other than by saying 'I agree' or 'I disagree'.


Not so much if its an opinion on the topic being discussed or a comment that has been made. Especially if the opinion is accompanied by reasons for that opinion and directly links to the topic under discussion!
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Re: Town Pub

Postby Rachael » 24 May 2016 14:51

You get booted off SE23.com? No shame in it - has happened to even the most mild-mannered of us. There is a thread about the idiosyncratic moderating of that forum here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4199 if you're interested. It goes back quite a few years.

I'll be interested to see how the new forum goes. Many have tried to start something new, many have failed. I think you've got a better chance that some if you are making it more reactive and with real-time content. But time will tell.
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Re: Town Pub

Postby admin » 26 May 2016 08:51

Note - I have removed the last two posts from this thread related to SE23.life. I don't mind general discussion about other forums (fora?), but this is not the place to air your grievances about specific moderation issues on other sites.

Regards,
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