Sockpuppets on t'other forum

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brazil nut
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Joined: 22 Jan 2018 12:38
Location: Forest Hill

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by brazil nut »

RJM wrote: 20 Jul 2019 22:14 Update from Twitter - SE23life CB:
"I’m taking a break from Twitter for a while.
I made many friends in SE23, but also picked up some enemies (eg by banning one or two abusive members of (link: http://SE23.life) SE23.life).
Some of those enemies became obsessive and built a lynch mob fueled by hearsay."
Hang on, but what about this advice he doled out on his forums? Doesn't this tweet put him at risk of prosecution? Didn't his Twitter persona get the memo? Or do the laws and the government advice not apply to him?
Chris Beach on his own forum wrote: There is now an ongoing police investigation into the email received and therefore this topic will need to be temporarily closed to further posts to avoid prejudicing a jury should the case make it to trial.

If you see people commenting about this matter elsewhere, please show them the following government advice:

Anyone who publishes an article or commentary that seriously risks someone’s right to a fair trial could find themselves in trouble with the law.
Or does this tweet just confirm our suspicions that the police investigation is utter BS, a desperate attempt by CB to shut down commentary that didn't suit him?
hotterthanurex
Posts: 28
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by hotterthanurex »

Respectfully I disagree with you. Most hr teams a bit useless with this and the most social media channels get is a quick scan to check applicant not an isis or national front sympathiser. Beachys tweets are pretty frothy but all this stuff would require unpicking that no one would have time for (but wouldn't they have fun if they did?). So I think his professional reputation (as the social media editor of the South East finest imaginary carribean bakery, natch) will be fine but he has made himself look daft in front of the locals.
JGD wrote: 20 Jul 2019 14:17
hotterthanurex wrote: 20 Jul 2019 13:16 Again... biggest question. Where does this guy find the time? Or the energy? Does he work? Has he amassed a huge property fortune after successfully gentrifying Forest Hill with a web forum with nicer interface?
As has been said earlier, the report of appalling and possibly illegal actions that are now attached to his online persona will seriously impact on any assessment of his integrity made by a potential new client or new employer. Quite some price to pay for what Chris Beach thought was a well hidden predilection. The owner of a civic forum using that forum to persecute and inflect fear and harassment in his community. Not easy to explain away.

Perverse, some might say.
brazil nut
Posts: 65
Joined: 22 Jan 2018 12:38
Location: Forest Hill

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by brazil nut »

hotterthanurex wrote: 21 Jul 2019 06:31 Respectfully I disagree with you. Most hr teams a bit useless with this and the most social media channels get is a quick scan to check applicant not an isis or national front sympathiser. Beachys tweets are pretty frothy but all this stuff would require unpicking that no one would have time for (but wouldn't they have fun if they did?). So I think his professional reputation (as the social media editor of the South East finest imaginary carribean bakery, natch) will be fine but he has made himself look daft in front of the locals.
JGD wrote: 20 Jul 2019 14:17
hotterthanurex wrote: 20 Jul 2019 13:16 Again... biggest question. Where does this guy find the time? Or the energy? Does he work? Has he amassed a huge property fortune after successfully gentrifying Forest Hill with a web forum with nicer interface?
As has been said earlier, the report of appalling and possibly illegal actions that are now attached to his online persona will seriously impact on any assessment of his integrity made by a potential new client or new employer. Quite some price to pay for what Chris Beach thought was a well hidden predilection. The owner of a civic forum using that forum to persecute and inflect fear and harassment in his community. Not easy to explain away.

Perverse, some might say.
If it's on his CV that he's the creator of SE23Life, they're likely to look at that though and the thread that was removed would have been embarrassing for him. What's left of the thread (the heavily moderated OP) doesn't give any indication of any wrongdoing on CB's part. I can see why he'd want to do that, at a personal and professional level; and he can, because he owns it.

But then this highlights a fundamental problem, is it right that the owner of a civic forum puts his personal needs above those of the community? The community voted for the thread to remain, it was undemocratically removed against their expressed wishes because it suited the owner to do so. And the placemarker that remains alludes not in any way to any wrongdoing on CB's part, yet still points to CB being the victim of a campaign of harassment by a member of the community (albeit now unnamed). The subject heading of the post, "Threats, cyber-stalking and lost pets: The life of a Facebook group admin"; the one remaining sentence before the moderator update talking of a police investigation, "I recently read the above article about Ian’s experience running a community group (I love SE4 in his case). It resonated." There are different rules being applied dependent on whether you're the owner, or another member of the community. That the moderation team is allowing this smacks of a lack of impartiality on their part. As others have said, this hurts real people, and causes real pain; and we have a civic forum that is facilitating that. To copy what someone else said above, the mods who should be protecting community members are instead exposing them to risk. It's a disgrace.
Last edited by brazil nut on 21 Jul 2019 09:09, edited 1 time in total.
Rachael
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Rachael »

There’s been a lot of discussion about CB sock puppet accounts on SE26 Life but it occurs to me that he might be happily contributing to SE23 Life right now in the guise of a long standing verified account. 🤔
topofthehill
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by topofthehill »

I have been thinking exactly the same.
Homecroft
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Homecroft »

All the while, CB is still very much active on the forum, reading posts, sending PB's and in the midst of all this, lots of posts being put up or bumped from a long time back to bury a recent thread which gently started to open up the cracks again, while trying to paint over them.

Still nothing official from the mods, which is a shame. Its sad to see them baring the brunt of the actions of another. Although a certain element of responsibility does indeed lay with them.

Another account which appears to be a non moderator account but with mod powers seems to be doing all the heavy lifting and vocalisation right now.

As mentioned above, even though the vote was to keep the thread, it was removed, leaving only one victim on show, and hiding an admission of wrong doing. Protect that public persona.

What a farce.
Hopefully it is becoming abundantly clear that people are not happy, and at least an interim statement needs to be made. It doesn't have to make any factual reference to the intricate details to the wrong doing. Just acknowledgement that something has gone badly wrong, realisation that the trust on the forum pretty much as a whole has been destroyed, and that they want to find a way to move forward with things.

Otherwise it is going to look like se26 dot life in no time. Just the owner talking to himself most of the time, with the occasional real person posting.
Fohill
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Fohill »

Rachael wrote: 21 Jul 2019 08:57 There’s been a lot of discussion about CB sock puppet accounts on SE26 Life but it occurs to me that he might be happily contributing to SE23 Life right now in the guise of a long standing verified account. 🤔
An account that has 3 days read time of which 23 hours are recent. Why the sudden upspike I wonder.

More read time than the mods as well.
It’s so obvious
Homecroft
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Homecroft »

Is it just me, or is there is a deliberate attempt to quash any mention of the problem by bumping posts, editing them etc? Or just coincidence?

Interesting to see one of the mods has finally replied though, with a simple "why don't you wait and see."

Errm, that's what everyone is doing, but patience is wearing a bit thin now. All anyone sees is cover ups, denials and business as usual.
JGD
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by JGD »

Rachael wrote: 20 Jul 2019 23:08 If anyone becomes aware of, or even suspects an account of being, a CB sock puppet on Twitter, it would be helpful to post the information here. I have 2.7k twitter followers and while my account is locked down now, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if CB hadn’t planted a puppet in there a long time ago, but weeding it out manually will be tortuous.
A gift from a member and supporter on here.

https://botometer.iuni.iu.edu/#!/

Checks Twitter account names and friends .

Might only report on whether its a bot or not - but it also reveals if you are blocked on the account an error msg appears.

Its a first step - if any one has a better app - let us all know.
JGD
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by JGD »

londondrz on SE23.life today in two responses wrote:
To @jmoney
But who gets to determine what is facts, and what is speculation? Might is suggest in this instance the police. I personally dont think the internet should act as judge, jury and executioner.

Separately to @Ross
@Ross Had you posted that on any other forum, given the current circumstances, how long do you think it would have stayed up?
Feel the frustration and anger in those expressions.

And the pugnacity - especially in the false allusion to the police investigation. I have a private report that a counter-post was deleted by the moderator at around the same. Did anyone catch it ?

Perhaps @Londondrz, the out-of-town moderator and twofer wingman for Chris Beach needs a basic refresher course in facts.

Facts are facts - when supported by a plethora of incontrovertible evidence.

And as Chris Beach skulked around the internet trolling his own community, it is only natural that the internet will interrogate what the revelations really mean. At first of course - and perhaps for as long as it takes to establish the whole picture - or until a police service moves to examine Chris Beach's activities and his motives.
stuart
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by stuart »

Meanwhile over in Kafka Towers damage limitation mode in top gear. They have issued this very latest threat to their community (and by implication us):
Anyone who publishes an article or commentary that seriously risks someone’s right to a fair trial could find themselves in trouble with the law
This in response to folks over there just askin' what's going on? But of course there is no trial, no charge, no known investigation and not even a CRN at this time. All we have is the word of a man from a fabricated business venture. In other words it is bluster. Bad bluster. I'm afraid the people of Forest Hill are being treated with complete contempt.

Chris Beach is a keen student of politics and is surely aware that careers are more likely to end in disaster from the cover-up rather than the original crime. I judge he has passed the point of no return (to trust). What is at stake now is SE23.life itself. They have some hard choices. There is no pain free way out of this. Just showing they are looking for a way out would be good.

Stuart
stuart
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by stuart »

BTW The thread I referred to has, surprise, surprise been deleted. I 'll leave you to work out why they don't want it seen:
https://foresthill.org.uk/extras/2019-0 ... 569bae.jpg

Stuart
Homecroft
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Homecroft »

The ongoing police investigation is the answer to everything isn't it!
All anyone wants is a simple confirmation from the mods that that acknowledge that there was a breach of trust on the forum by its admin. Not what they did, who to, or why?

Members who didn't get to see the thread have no idea what happened, or who to believe.
A simple "we f**ked up" and we know we need to change things to get the trust back, would suffice.

But no, instead it's, "be quiet, don't ask, we can't tell you, the police said.... And all the other bull.

Come on people, stop being silly now, and to the outspoken mod, wind ya neck in a bit and just pretend you understand why people might be so concerned. You can't hide it for ever, and rather than going away, it's blowing up, badly!
JGD
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by JGD »

stuart wrote: 21 Jul 2019 12:26 Meanwhile over in Kafka Towers damage limitation mode in top gear. They have issued this very latest threat to their community (and by implication us):
The old illusory threat irrespective how oft it is repeated is just that - along with being old hat.

And also on Kafka Towers, one respected user has called @Londondrz's bluff on it

@Londondrz's inane [and yes I have spelled that correctly] posts are being shredded on SE23.life as we speak.

Get your screen dumps early - you will want to be reminded of these moments!
Rachael
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Rachael »

stuart wrote: 21 Jul 2019 12:34 BTW The thread I referred to has, surprise, surprise been deleted. I 'll leave you to work out why they don't want it seen:
https://foresthill.org.uk/extras/2019-0 ... 569bae.jpg

Stuart
It’s been reinstated and the worms are turning. People have asked for information on the police investigation and been told they can’t have it. Then when they ask what information might be relevant, they are told to ask the investigating officer / local police. Which can’t be done without the information asked for about the investigation in the first place...

Dick Wynne is my new hero.

Oh, look, CB has just chimed in, unless I am very much mistaken.
brazil nut
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by brazil nut »

And Londondrz, a moderator of the forum, has put it on record that he knows as much as we all do. B***er all. But he and the other moderators have allowed an entire thread to be taken down, AGAINST the community's wishes as per a public vote, on the basis of knowing nothing, having no evidence, just CB's word.

These are Londondz's words: "I am not privy to the information and know as much as you do."

How can any confidence be restored from here? It's flabbergasting.
oakr
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by oakr »

There have been a number of accusations by JDG aimed at moderators on se23.life in this thread, and in particular in terms of communication with Nicola. I feel it’s unfair that my fellow moderators continue to face these so I wanted to be open that JDG is referring to me as the moderator who messaged Nicola. I’ve decided to respond below. This is done so in a personal capacity and not as a moderator.

Chris and Nicola have been ‘not the best of friends’ for quite a while. Earlier this year, and further to some online discussions, I contacted Nicola via facebook as follows (the Friday refers to a meet-up of newbies to the area organised via the forum, which some mods would attend):

18 FEB 2019, 21:06
Hi Nicola

I'm a moderator on SE23.life and I thought I'd email you as I understand you wanted to speak to moderators on Friday.

I was not originally going on Friday, but my wife's plans have fallen through so I can now make it. I wondered if you wanted to arrange to meet up with me (I'm a nice person honestly!) and with Chris on Friday, or alternatively if you wanted to meet separately on Friday or on Wednesday evening as I am free then also.

I know you do a lot of great community work, I believe se23.life, se23 mums, forest hill society and others combined would all be much more powerful if everyone was working together, and certainly not against each other.

I'd be happy to work as a permanent intermediary or point of contact if you felt there was an issue with se23life etc.

At the end of the day I'm a simple person wanting a simple life, and I believe everyone's energies would be best directed pushing for positive changes.

I'd really like to meet up to see if you think we can get to that point (and how) - let me know if you'd like to. I realise we've never met so if you wanted to bring someone else of course that would be no problem.

If you wanted to view my posts generally I am on se23mums (I think we've actually interacted on there before re sefldefence) and my name on se23life is OAKR.

I mean this message with the best intentions and I hope you see if that way.

Al

Nicola replied 2 days later and agreed to speak and asked to do it over email, so I then sent the following:

20 FEB 2019, 17:23
Hi Nicola - sure that would be fine though I do think meeting in person is helpful so if you are coming Friday please come and say hello, and if not I will be happy to meet up another time.

Anyway an for the sake of transparency I have mentioned to Chris and the other moderators that I was going to contact you and have said you have responded. I've spoken to Chris and ask that he not engage directly with you, or mention you in any tweets or other social media etc , which he has agreed to. I'd like to ask you to do the same please whilst we try to resolve the issues between you and see how we move things forwards to stop this. Are you ok to agree to that also?

My email is axxxxxxx@gmail.com.

I will also ask both of you not to use me as a pawn in any disputes that neither of you will use correspondence between me and either of you on social media or otherwise to further engage negatively.

I will clearly speak to Chris about what you write to me about and to you about what Chris writes, however I won't share screenshots of that correspondence or forward otherwise to you or Chris (or other parties ) - unless you agree.

I hope that makes sense.

If you send me and email and I don't reply pop me a message on here and I'll double check my inbox.

Thanks

Al


The above are the entire messages, I’ve not deleted anything (other than of course Nicola’s response between them). I have agreed as above that I won’t publish anything she sent to me, and I will continue to respect that, though it appears from JDG’s comments some of my communications may now be in wider circulation (I've not seen this directly myself).

So this is how Nicola got my real name, email address etc. Let me be clear - there was nothing in this for me - literally nothing. Nicola didn’t post on SE23.life, my life would have been easier staying out of it. I just wanted to try and help improve the situation for all parties, nothing more, nothing less.

We spoke on and off for quite a while but never got to meet in person. On the 13th March of this year, I informed all parties I would cease any mediation for reasons I’ll keep to myself so as not to inflame anything further. Though I had my own views, at no time did I blame anyone directly for this.

That was my last correspondence until this week (with the exception of one facebook post where Nicola asked for a recommendation, and I provided one - perhaps May or June), events as follows:

1. I commented on a thread now hidden on se23.life
2. Receive email from Nicola given her version of events, and questioning an online account
3. I respond to Nicola (pre announcement of ‘ownership’ of said online account) giving my views on the communication sent - this is the email I believe JDG refers to
4. I resign from mod team
5. Chris confirms ownership of said account
6. I decide to rejoin the mod team for a short period to assist through a difficult time.

I want to be clear that I believe I am the only moderator of late to communicate with Nicola. In all my dealings with anyone across the forums and especially with Nicola and Chris, I have always tried my best to de-escalate issues. I personally prefer to do that behind closed doors as a general rule. I gave my views directly to all parties on the latest incident.

JDG you have my permission to paste a copy of the email you are referring to with the date stamp please, and the email from me in full, so everyone can see what I wrote. Clearly you do so at your own risk, but you have my permission to put it here. As yet I’ve not forwarded this to anyone, but from your previous post it appears it’s already in circulation. Please remove both mine and Nicola’s names and email addresses for the message headers when you do post it. People may, or may agree with the content of my email, but I believe it’s clear it’s not done with malice in mind - I will grant you it’s direct though, and that the email was sent pre any further revelations.

Everything I tried in the early part of the year was geared and trying to avoid what happened earlier in the week. Clearly I failed in that and that is something I regret.

There is a lot of implied criticism of the moderators in this thread. Rachael earlier asks “what the moderators can achieve that I couldn’t”. Well they have agreed with Chris a hugely significant change, which was also suggested on this thread. That is that Chris runs the tech \ admin’ side of the forum, but excludes himself from the moderation team. This is done, Chris is no longer on the moderation team distribution list for messages sent to that list. This now appears to be brushed to the side as if it’s nothing.

I will soon leave the moderator team, and will say I have never seen anything that would lead me to question the integrity of any of the existing moderation team. Once I leave, I will continue to use the site in full confidence that the site will be in good hands with them at the helm. I hope others will as well.

Have good afternoons.

Al
Last edited by oakr on 21 Jul 2019 20:42, edited 1 time in total.
JGD
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by JGD »

Rachael wrote: 21 Jul 2019 12:54
It’s been reinstated and the worms are turning. People have asked for information on the police investigation and been told they can’t have it. Then when they ask what information might be relevant, they are told to ask the investigating officer / local police. Which can’t be done without the information asked for about the investigation in the first place...

Dick Wynne is my new hero.

Oh, look, CB has just chimed in, unless I am very much mistaken.

Rachael,

Can't see the reinstated thread or CB's chimed-in post..

Has it been placed in one of his hidden categories ?
Rachael
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Rachael »

I can and always have been able to see that thread. It’s still in the main forum, tagged General. I am not logged in and viewing the forum using private browsing.
stuart
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by stuart »

oakr wrote: 21 Jul 2019 13:04There is a lot of implied criticism of the moderators in this thread. Rachael earlier asks “what the moderators can achieve that I couldn’t”. Well they have agreed with Chris a hugely significant change, which was also suggested on this thread. That is that Chris runs the tech \ admin’ side of the forum, but excludes himself from the moderation team. This is done, Chris is no longer on the moderation team distribution list for messages sent to that list. This now appears to be brushed to the side as if it’s nothing.
Thank you Al. It was great you feel you could post such a comprehensive explanantion.

I glad to say that the change is very welcome. Nobody here is anything but impressed by Chris' technical achievement. And, to be honest, you need him to keep it running. Chris's justified or unjustified villification (depending on your view) is on inappropriate moderation or not being properly moderated. He is the major casualty as a result.

I hope you will forgive us pressing hard on the issue and its attempted cover up. It must have been very uncomfortable but, on reflection, I hope you come to the conclusion that without it an injustice would have been perputrated. And the causes of it would have been emboldened and continued.

Similarly you will know that some here will not be satisfied by words. It's deeds. It is frankly impossible to stop a SysAdmin doing whatever they wish with the software. As here and with you - it is a matter of trust between the Forum Admin and the SysAdmin. It's your problem how you will achieve that.

Inevitably if that trust is broken - people will find out. I don't think SE23.life can risk something like this again. But time will tell. Meanwhile I wish you all well.

Stuart
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