Sockpuppets on t'other forum

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Rachael
Posts: 2438
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Rachael » 8 Oct 2019 12:47

It all depends how you use Twitter, I think. Mine is completely non-toxic and a source of support and true friendships. It helps if there is a specific community you belong to as they can often be self-reinforcing in terms of tone and respect.

michael
Posts: 1273
Joined: 26 Sep 2006 12:56
Location: Forest Hill

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by michael » 8 Oct 2019 13:29

It doesn't really matter how YOU use Twitter as much as how the presidents of large countries use Twitter to announce policy shifts without consulting their advisors. And other governments and non-governments fund bots and trolls to spread fake news and discord in foreign countries or domestic 'enemies'.

Rachael
Posts: 2438
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Rachael » 8 Oct 2019 13:41

michael wrote:
8 Oct 2019 13:29
It doesn't really matter how YOU use Twitter as much as how the presidents of large countries use Twitter to announce policy shifts without consulting their advisors. And other governments and non-governments fund bots and trolls to spread fake news and discord in foreign countries or domestic 'enemies'.
Don’t disagree with any of that. Just pointing out that it’s not all horrific. Of course, if the fate of the world depending on closing it down, I’d make my peace with that.

michael
Posts: 1273
Joined: 26 Sep 2006 12:56
Location: Forest Hill

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by michael » 8 Oct 2019 14:15

Rachael wrote:
8 Oct 2019 13:41
Just pointing out that it’s not all horrific. Of course, if the fate of the world depending on closing it down, I’d make my peace with that.
Well it is possibly more toxic than CFCs :wink:

ForestHull
Posts: 3
Joined: 2 Aug 2019 10:15

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by ForestHull » 8 Oct 2019 14:32

Rachael wrote:
7 Oct 2019 12:44
I've never understood the point of blocking people on Twitter, unless they are actively trolling you or being abusive (which I've never done, I hasten to add).
But you blocked me. I don't believe I was ever rude or abusive, or do much on Twitter really.

Rachael
Posts: 2438
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Rachael » 8 Oct 2019 15:12

ForestHull wrote:
8 Oct 2019 14:32
Rachael wrote:
7 Oct 2019 12:44
I've never understood the point of blocking people on Twitter, unless they are actively trolling you or being abusive (which I've never done, I hasten to add).
But you blocked me. I don't believe I was ever rude or abusive, or do much on Twitter really.
I did indeed block you, and I told you why when you emailed me at the time. It was at the time when I took my account private because I was worried about CB planting sock puppets there (which he may well have done, but he has since given me assurances in another context that he would never attack me, so I have stopped trying to hunt them down). I blocked you because there were questions at the time about whether or not your accounts were CB sock puppets. That was a very specific situation and I was completely upfront about it when you contacted me.

If you're still blocked, it's only because I forgot to unblock you.

ForestHull
Posts: 3
Joined: 2 Aug 2019 10:15

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by ForestHull » 8 Oct 2019 16:39

Rachael wrote:
8 Oct 2019 15:12
your accounts
Possibly a typo, but I have only one Twitter account. And it is still blocked. Oh well.

Rachael
Posts: 2438
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 13:42
Location: Sydenham / Forest Hill Intersection

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Rachael » 8 Oct 2019 17:28

ForestHull wrote:
8 Oct 2019 16:39
Rachael wrote:
8 Oct 2019 15:12
your accounts
Possibly a typo, but I have only one Twitter account. And it is still blocked. Oh well.
I was referring also to your SE23Life account. I’ve unblocked you now.

ForestHull
Posts: 3
Joined: 2 Aug 2019 10:15

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by ForestHull » 8 Oct 2019 17:37

Thank you.

starman
Posts: 18
Joined: 26 Oct 2018 15:44
Location: Forest Hill

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by starman » 8 Oct 2019 22:39

Rachael wrote:
8 Oct 2019 15:12
I was worried about CB planting sock puppets there
The whole ugly Flavabaker episode had one positive (or is it negative) outcome for me. I now have a healthy distrust of online media accounts. If I suspect a sock puppet, or a Twitter bot I am more inclined to go with my gut instinct.

Guilty until proven innocent.

There are too many people out there wishing to deceive and go to great lengths to do so. Only tonight I discovered someone had created a FB account in my image in an attempt to scam my friends. Thankfully FB helped in detecting this. For god's sake... there is a reality TV show out there which glorifies catfishing.

So if I block you... it's likely not personal.

:wink:

promofaux
Posts: 2
Joined: 1 Aug 2019 15:29

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by promofaux » 9 Oct 2019 10:08

starman wrote:
8 Oct 2019 22:39
Rachael wrote:
8 Oct 2019 15:12
I was worried about CB planting sock puppets there
The whole ugly Flavabaker episode had one positive (or is it negative) outcome for me. I now have a healthy distrust of online media accounts. If I suspect a sock puppet, or a Twitter bot I am more inclined to go with my gut instinct.
I was listening earlier to Phillip Pullman talking on Adam Buxton's podcast about this kind of thing. I particularly liked the part where he said this:
I suppose the thing to do is don't do anything stupid on Twitter, or Facebook or online at all. Realise that there are people watching you do this, so don't give away any secrets, don't be needlessly rude to people. Because it's so difficult to understand how it works... Well actually one way of doing it would be to be superstitious about it this is the realm of devils, of invisible entities that don't bear you any good will, so just be careful how you go
Emphasis mine. Seems relevant here.

starman
Posts: 18
Joined: 26 Oct 2018 15:44
Location: Forest Hill

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by starman » 9 Oct 2019 11:32

promofaux wrote:
9 Oct 2019 10:08
I was listening earlier to Phillip Pullman talking on Adam Buxton's podcast about this kind of thing. I particularly liked the part where he said this:
Good link. Thanks.

I broadly agree with you. In posting, I always ask myself "what would my father say" if he were to read this. That tempers a lot of my posts and how i relate to people. But he would also tell me to step up and defy facist behaviour, or defend those least able to defend themselves.

Unfortunately that practice may be seen as rude by some.

JGD
Posts: 611
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Perry Hill, SE6 (yup that's Catford)

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by JGD » 11 Oct 2019 10:39

ForestHull wrote:
8 Oct 2019 17:37
Thank you.
In the current mood of unblocking, my thousand year ban on SE23 and SE26 was set to zero a few months ago and then some individual promptly re-imposed a ten year ban. Interestingly I still have a thousand year ban on SE6.

Show some benevolence - unblock members of our communities on all of the .life sites.

JGD
Posts: 611
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Perry Hill, SE6 (yup that's Catford)

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by JGD » 11 Oct 2019 11:19

Nic wrote:
7 Oct 2019 10:12
Over the course of the last week, he's used his various Twitter accounts (including SE23life and SE23lifeChris) to have - totally unsolicited and unprovoked - passive aggressive pops at JGD, Save Duncombe Hill Green, LewishamLowdown, JaneCanDoSE4 and "other local forums" (overtly meaning forums other than SE26life and SE23life). He's also championed a Twitter account run by a man who has publicly used the most vile language to describe me and others in the community. Perhaps he's going through another sustained period of sleep deprivation.
Apologies - just catching up after a few days out of town looking after some family matters.

I see Nic has included me in the list of passive-aggressive CB targets.

Moi ?

My gasts have never been so flabbered missus.

JGD
Posts: 611
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Perry Hill, SE6 (yup that's Catford)

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by JGD » 11 Oct 2019 11:33

starman wrote:
8 Oct 2019 22:39
...

Guilty until proven innocent.

There are too many people out there wishing to deceive and go to great lengths to do so. Only tonight I discovered someone had created a FB account in my image in an attempt to scam my friends. Thankfully FB helped in detecting this. For god's sake... there is a reality TV show out there which glorifies catfishing.
Starman - just spotted ForestHull has been added to the SE23.life Mod Team.

This against a background of you expressing interest and seeking clarification on what the role entails - a clarification as yet not provided it would seem.

Is there an unasked question here or even two?

Is such clarification to be provided ?

And has CB appointed ForestHull on the basis that he has asked no such awkward questions and thereby CB has deemed the appointee to be another compliant soul in CBWorld?

I think we should know.

stuart
Posts: 3213
Joined: 21 Sep 2004 10:13
Location: Lawrie Park
Contact:

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by stuart » 11 Oct 2019 19:58

JGD wrote:
11 Oct 2019 11:33
Starman - just spotted ForestHull has been added to the SE23.life Mod Team.
Congratulations/commiserations as appropriate ForestHull. Hopefully as a member of this forum you will be in a good position to tell us when it is safe to return.

Living in hope,
Stuart

Nic
Posts: 17
Joined: 11 Jul 2019 08:42

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Nic » 12 Oct 2019 13:30

JGD wrote:
11 Oct 2019 11:33
And has CB appointed ForestHull on the basis that he has asked no such awkward questions and thereby CB has deemed the appointee to be another compliant soul in CBWorld?
Considering every single person I spoke to during the Flava Baker debacle had suspicions around ForestHull - at worst a CB sock puppet, at best a CB handmaiden - I don't think this appointment will instil much confidence in those seeking a neutral, CB-free forum. But then, I'm not sure anyone really cares about the forum full stop anymore.
JGD wrote:
11 Oct 2019 10:39
Show some benevolence - unblock members of our communities on all of the .life sites.
Apart from JGD maybe...? :wink:

stuart
Posts: 3213
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Contact:

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by stuart » 14 Oct 2019 10:43

Nic wrote:
12 Oct 2019 13:30
Considering every single person I spoke to during the Flava Baker debacle had suspicions around ForestHull - at worst a CB sock puppet, at best a CB handmaiden - I don't think this appointment will instil much confidence in those seeking a neutral, CB-free forum. But then, I'm not sure anyone really cares about the forum full stop anymore.
Two points:

First I care passionately about local forums - I don't think anyone can doubt that. SE23.life was a great innovation, it's mission statement was wonderful and it rightly attracted a group of great people to run it - closely followed by nearly all the SE23.COM posters. Success should have been complete with all that support and goodwill. Where did it all go wrong? How come this thread has now eclipsed the old "Exile from the North" critique of SE23.COM in both length and veracity? Is the cause all the people here or the one person there? As I keep repeating, to little effect, Chris' true enemy is not us but himself needlessly misjudging, antagonising and then illegitimately attacking people who should have been supportive. Then casting himself as the hapless victim should there be any pushback.

Secondly - I was one who suspected you ForestHull of being a CB sockpuppet. It's a sad state of affairs when anyone voicing similar views in a similar way has to be regarded as guilty until proven otherwise. Why - because of the numerous occasions when investigation has shown fake accounts that can be traced back to CB and the way they were used to try and subvert free discussion. But unlike Nic I have hope your participation in the moderation team is an opportunity. CB won't listen to people he has labelled 'enemies of the People/Forest Hill/CB' - perhaps it will take a friend to begin to advise him what is best in both his own self-interest and that of SE23.life.

That's application of the Forum rules without fear or favour to everyone. It can be done if the rest of the moderation team collectively want it enough. Either with or without CB. In the end that's his choice. But until then SE23.life effectively excludes people and discussion it shouldn't and so diminishes itself (and CB).

Stuart

Nic
Posts: 17
Joined: 11 Jul 2019 08:42

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Nic » 14 Oct 2019 19:02

stuart wrote:
14 Oct 2019 10:43
I have hope your participation in the moderation team is an opportunity.
In that case, it would be helpful perhaps if ForestHull could respond to the points people have raised above but remain unaddressed? As you said previously, Stuart:
stuart wrote:
4 Oct 2019 11:09
It would be good if they [the mods] could be open about where they are. Surely they owe that to the community they wish to serve?
So in the spirit of trust and co-operation, ForestHull, are you able to address the following for the benefit of those who may wish to use SE23.Life going forward:

1. Please could you clarify the moderators' position on this interpretation of a technical admin's role and what the moderation team have agreed in relation to CB's current/future participation in the forum?
Rachael wrote:
13 Sep 2019 14:22
A technical admin should never make decisions on what is appropriate content, bar obvious spam. Nor assume that issues that were deemed contentious some months ago are still under embargo. A technical admin should, at the most, temporarily hide a post and seek clarification from a moderator about what action they want taken. If CB is removing or amending member posts based on content without any referral to the mods, he is acting as a moderator.
stuart wrote:
27 Sep 2019 18:33

The question is whether the Mods really want to restrict the owner to provide the necessary technical assistance to keep the forum going and the owner agrees. That is the owner agrees and does refrain from posting and causing any change to access and content of others.All it needs is agreement between him and the Mods. A solution is there if thy want it. it would make SE23.life a trusted place once more.

Stuart
2. Please could you clarify the moderators' position on CB's use of official SE23Life Twitter accounts for purposes other than neutrally sharing SE23Life/SE23 related content?
Rachael wrote:
4 Oct 2019 17:54
I do see that [Twitter] account [SE23LifeChris] - which is an 'official' SE23Life account - retweeting political content from CBs personal account. His continued use of that account and in this particular manner seems to me to be a breach of the spirit of his new position on the forum. I would raise this with the moderators were I still a member.
3. Are the moderators prepared to wipe the slate clean and unblock those who are blocked but would like to participate in SE23.Life going forward? (Don't worry, this doesn't include me, I have absolutely zero desire to participate; but there are others who may).
JGD wrote:
11 Oct 2019 10:39
Show some benevolence - unblock members of our communities on all of the .life sites.
4. As has been previously requested by Starman, are you able to provide clarification on what the moderator's role entails and an explanation of how the selection process works? I appreciate Starman may by now have received this clarification privately, but I do believe this links very much to the wider trust issues that are of public interest.
JGD wrote:
11 Oct 2019 11:33

Starman - just spotted ForestHull has been added to the SE23.life Mod Team.

This against a background of you expressing interest and seeking clarification on what the role entails - a clarification as yet not provided it would seem.

Is there an unasked question here or even two?

Is such clarification to be provided ?
5. When will the full Flava Baker thread be reinstated on SE23Life?

JGD
Posts: 611
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Perry Hill, SE6 (yup that's Catford)

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by JGD » 14 Oct 2019 19:08

stuart wrote:
14 Oct 2019 10:43
Success should have been complete with all that support and goodwill. Where did it all go wrong? How come this thread has now eclipsed the old "Exile from the North" critique of SE23.COM in both length and veracity? Is the cause all the people here or the one person there? As I keep repeating, to little effect, Chris' true enemy is not us but himself needlessly misjudging, antagonising and then illegitimately attacking people who should have been supportive. Then casting himself as the hapless victim should there be any pushback.

Stuart
Stuart

Well done.

So very precise in your observation about what is Chris's true enemy - himself.

Rather than "illegitimately" I might choose "unlawfully and without foundation"

'Twill ever be thus.

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