Sockpuppets on t'other forum

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JGD
Posts: 545
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Perry Hill, SE6 (yup that's Catford)

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by JGD » 18 Jul 2019 09:13

P1971 wrote:
17 Jul 2019 21:40
I don't really want to comment, but will say that everything should be transparent.

I agree with Michael's comments, and have the utmost respect for Rachael.

I want SE23.life to have longevity and will do my best to support this as I feel it is a fantastic forum.
Hello Pauline - good to see you active on here.

Your sentiments will be shared by the majority of the members of the communities that these .life forums were intended to serve.

It can be sensed that the huge disappointments are doubly palpable for those who put the same amount of effort as Chris beach into the creation and roll-out of SE23.life in particular.

But these behaviours by a community forum leader and self-confessed serial liar have no place in our community. And certainly not for the creation and instilling of fear into community members.

It is how this moves forward that needs to be addressed urgently.

Homecroft
Posts: 40
Joined: 28 Oct 2018 19:40
Location: SE London

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Homecroft » 18 Jul 2019 12:10

I could not agree more with this sentiment. Many people past and present have put a lot of time and energy into creating the wealth of information and discussion that the forum now is. To see all that content go to waste because of the selfish and obsessive actions of one person (albeit the owner) would be a travesty.

Unfortunately all the attention seems to be on protecting his "good name" whilst making sure everyone believes the blame lays with the other party. This is far from the case, as many have said. Neither an isolated, nor a harmless incident.

Where it all goes from here is still a mystery, but one thing for sure is, for the time being, discussion of the matter or past incidents is unwelcome.

I wonder if a crime reference number will be offered. Should this actually be brought to the attention of the authorities, I would imagine it would be imperative that as much information is gathered, so would be prudent to be able to contribute, surely?

Sadly I am positive there are those who will never accept he would be in the wrong for a second. For those I just hope you never find yourselves on the receiving end of the endless spite and manipulation.

JGD wrote:
18 Jul 2019 09:13
[

Your sentiments will be shared by the majority of the members of the communities that these .life forums were intended to serve.

It can be sensed that the huge disappointments are doubly palpable for those who put the same amount of effort as Chris beach into the creation and roll-out of SE23.life in particular.

But these behaviours by a community forum leader and self-confessed serial liar have no place in our community. And certainly not for the creation and instilling of fear into community members.

It is how this moves forward that needs to be addressed urgently.

JGD
Posts: 545
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Perry Hill, SE6 (yup that's Catford)

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by JGD » 18 Jul 2019 12:31

Evidence of an Accusation Gone Wrong

A close examination of Chris Beach’s allegations, published on his .life forums about a community member along with most of the data both posted online and sent in private emails provides a precise and accurate picture of the sequence of events thus:

1. Nicola transmitted an email to FlavaBaker, using an account with which she was publicly associated and on which she and Chris Beach had previously exchanged correspondence. She did so with a measure of certainty based on compelling past and present historic evidence that FlavaBaker was in fact a creation of Chris Beach. The FlavaBaker Twitter account had been used to access her locked Twitter account.

2. The email postulated a series of questions addressed to Chris Beach without naming him that she had hoped would illicit a response that would confirm it was in fact, Chris Beach.

3. That email to FlavaBaker was not transmitted or copied to anyone other than FlavaBaker. Very specifically Nicola did not transmit the first names of family and the picture of a road to anyone other than FlavaBaker.

4. It is demonstrably the case that only Chris Beach received the email in the guise of FlavaBaker. Chris Beach self-confessed that he had created the FlavaBaker account and its back-story. This proved that he lied in his assertions that he had the good luck that FlavaBaker had been in contact with him to share the email and had granted access for the purpose of gathering so called evidence. He went further to state his intention was to gather evidence with which he could go to the police and this statement contained another lie.

5. Nicola’s concerns and suspicions about the FlavaBaker account being a Chris Beach creation were proved to be accurate as revealed by Chris Beach’s subsequent self-confession that the FlavaBaker entities had been created by him.

6. It is evident that only Chris Beach re-broadcast and disseminated his family information. Nicola did not do this and did not have any part in it. Chris Beach chose not to delete nor redact his family details. He sought to maximise the damage he believed he could inflict on Nicola in this post. He also lied about FlavaBaker and his fabricated tale of his lied-about relationship with them. This was exposed only when he was questioned by Michael Abrahams, Chairman of the Forest Hill Society who asked Chris Beach to clarify this matter. It took some 12 hours plus before Chris Beach revealed the extent of his lies and fabrications in a post on his SE23.life forum.

These steps demonstrate that Nicola did not do what Chris Beach’s fabrications allege.

It is further suggested this evidence supports the case that the only offence that occurred was that Chris Beach’s actions were intended solely to create fear in the mind of Nicola and to harass her. He has succeeded in delivering his intention.

Chris Beach and SE23.life and SE26.life have now removed all details of the post and this makes it difficult to look at the evidence for yourself. However, there are multiple screen dumps available and I will respond to requests to see them if there is sufficient demand. You will then be able to see what you will see and then make your mind up about what precisely has happened here.

In the meantime, here is a link to a Google cache copy of the first accusation made on the FlavaBaker Twitter Account: Remember, Chris Beach has now confessed that this account was one of his creations.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=uk

Ask any question – interrogate what you see - I will be open and I have the screen dumps. I am not afraid of any consequence of the Chris Beach assertion that this matter is already in the hands of the MPS. It is probably untrue as they have not referenced it with a crime report number – another Chris Beach lie.

And this statement with this level of accuracy will stand any scrutiny or test that the MPS might apply to it.

brazil nut
Posts: 65
Joined: 22 Jan 2018 12:38
Location: Forest Hill

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by brazil nut » 18 Jul 2019 13:17

ThorNogson wrote:
18 Jul 2019 03:36
It’s been mentioned that this could make a daytime TV soap or perhaps a book. I understand that the following working titles are already in development.
Duncombe Hill Street Blues
Names under the Hammer
Sunset Beach
(Bad) Neighbours
The Great Flava Bakeoff
Pointless
The Clangers
Some potential theme tunes?

Echo (Chamber) Beach
Little Lies
Hickory Dickory Doxx
Tun Up! The Volume
Anything by Patties Smith
(Sock) Puppet On A String
(Flava) Baker Street
Spin Spin Sugar
Silenced Night
I'm So Bad (Baby I Don't Care)

stuart
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Joined: 21 Sep 2004 10:13
Location: Lawrie Park
Contact:

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by stuart » 18 Jul 2019 14:28

Somebody who should know better suggested this (who will bottle first?):


Satchers
Posts: 3
Joined: 4 Oct 2011 20:39
Location: se23

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Satchers » 18 Jul 2019 17:22

Wow. And I thought the other thread on the other forum was fascinating.... :shock:

I’d really love there to be a forum for se23 that didn’t have these problems. Anyone?

vbsydenham
Posts: 1506
Joined: 17 Nov 2016 10:40
Location: London

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by vbsydenham » 18 Jul 2019 18:29

Speaking as someone who has been attacked by CB in the past, this is a full scale, self inflicted meltdown that couldn’t have happened to a more deserving person. Great read, this

Fohill
Posts: 2
Joined: 17 Jul 2019 16:58

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Fohill » 18 Jul 2019 20:26

Now they’re trying to remove all Evidence of his posts in the politics threads. Someone is having a proper panic I think.

Homecroft
Posts: 40
Joined: 28 Oct 2018 19:40
Location: SE London

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Homecroft » 18 Jul 2019 20:40

Satchers wrote:
18 Jul 2019 17:22
Wow. And I thought the other thread on the other forum was fascinating.... :shock:

I’d really love there to be a forum for se23 that didn’t have these problems. Anyone?
Wouldn't that be lovely. Sadly I think part of the problem is the upper structure of the forum, and the way matters are dealt with. The way things stand at the moment, with the admin out of service, it allows a bit of breathing space for mods to mull things over. Maybe if this were to continue z I honestly think it would be beneficial for the forum and the community.

To hear more people speaking so openly about their experiences is quite sad really. Such bad personal experiences, and the extremes gone to to ensure people have been pacified.

Maybe some open discussions needs to be had on the other forum about these issues, and formulate the right way forwards. Peoples experiences have been brushed aside over and over, but there comes a point where you surely have to ask where the problem is actually coming from.

This is completely the wrong place for this all to be taking place, but with a gagging order in place elsewhere, and a business as usual approach being taken, I have little faith that there is any intention or interest in stopping things like this happening to anyone else.

topofthehill
Posts: 137
Joined: 16 Jun 2012 09:21
Location: london

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by topofthehill » 18 Jul 2019 20:54

They are closing the politics thread. They have not yet made any decision as to whether to delete it.

P1971
Posts: 170
Joined: 28 Mar 2014 21:44
Location: Dartmouth Road

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by P1971 » 18 Jul 2019 21:39

I think everyone should give the moderators a chance and a little time to do what they feel is appropriate.

They are obviously working hard to find the right resolution RE asking for nominations for new mods etc, and like all of us they are probably trying to balance work life and family life while giving their time voluntary to a community forum.

I think they all deserve this at the very least especially as they are all volunteers and they have done nothing but help the SE23 community.

Homecroft
Posts: 40
Joined: 28 Oct 2018 19:40
Location: SE London

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Homecroft » 18 Jul 2019 21:47

I'm sure most are more than happy to give the mods the time and respect they deserve. No one wants anything to happen over night, just a little actual acknowledgement that something went badly wrong, and that they know it needs addressing. So far it has all been a little, "oopsie daisy that was an unfortunate hiccup."

I hope sincerely that the right solution can be found to keep the much loved forum running, and no more nasty little hiccups.

topofthehill
Posts: 137
Joined: 16 Jun 2012 09:21
Location: london

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by topofthehill » 18 Jul 2019 21:48

Well said Pauline. Couldn't agree more.

rbmartin
Posts: 47
Joined: 18 Feb 2010 21:18
Location: Dulwich

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by rbmartin » 18 Jul 2019 22:42

It's one big soap opera isn't it?

I've kept out of the petty politics behind SE23.life and just posted on local issues, yet it would be a shame if the local forum for Forest Hill was closed as SE23.com is simply poor.

Maybe the best thing for Chris is to sell up to someone who can operate the website without getting into spats with well meaning locals?

JGD
Posts: 545
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Perry Hill, SE6 (yup that's Catford)

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by JGD » 19 Jul 2019 07:54

Here is a request to the @moderators on SE23.life in the form of an open - and honestly stated - appeal to them.

It is known that at least some of you are reading this thread on this forum.

There is also overlap present in that posters here are also members on SE23.life - please feel free to copy and paste the appeal into that forum.

It is requested that moderators make an open approach to all of the "disaffected", "detached" and non-participating members to return to the fold in SE23.life. The membership records will be present in your system and and if they are not - make a statement via a post that you seek the return of these members and have a desire to re-engage.

An existing post SE23.life team changes and moderator nominations defines your commitment to appoint new moderators and it may be expedient to see some returnees appointed to the role - perhaps as part of an expanded team.

The SE23.life membership will question - or will soon - the acceptability of the debate taking place on this thread and it not taking place on SE23.life.

This at first might seem difficult and fraught with problems - but in fact it is not - it can be made simple. For clarity you are being asked to engage with this group of members and restore their membership not to "Basic" levels but to the status they formerly had achieved before their "detachment".

And don't worry if you feel this is too much to ask and restore the rights of JGD and remove his ten year ban - I will not be offended if you can't reach out to do that - just restore everyone else.

Here is a sample of the positive comments made in this thread that demonstrate the well-spring of goodwill and strong desire to see a flourishing and non-complex forum that serves - and is aligned with - its community. And operates with the measures of integrity and transparency that it set out with in its nascent form.
P1971 wrote:
18 Jul 2019 21:39
I think everyone should give the moderators a chance and a little time to do what they feel is appropriate.

They are obviously working hard to find the right resolution RE asking for nominations for new mods etc, and like all of us they are probably trying to balance work life and family life while giving their time voluntary to a community forum.

I think they all deserve this at the very least especially as they are all volunteers and they have done nothing but help the SE23 community.
topofthehill wrote:
18 Jul 2019 21:48
Well said Pauline. Couldn't agree more.
Homecroft wrote:
18 Jul 2019 21:47
I'm sure most are more than happy to give the mods the time and respect they deserve. No one wants anything to happen over night, just a little actual acknowledgement that something went badly wrong, and that they know it needs addressing. So far it has all been a little, "oopsie daisy that was an unfortunate hiccup."

I hope sincerely that the right solution can be found to keep the much loved forum running, and no more nasty little hiccups.
Homecroft wrote:
18 Jul 2019 20:40
Satchers wrote:
18 Jul 2019 17:22
Wow. And I thought the other thread on the other forum was fascinating.... :shock:

I’d really love there to be a forum for se23 that didn’t have these problems. Anyone?
Wouldn't that be lovely. Sadly I think part of the problem is the upper structure of the forum, and the way matters are dealt with. The way things stand at the moment, with the admin out of service, it allows a bit of breathing space for mods to mull things over. Maybe if this were to continue z I honestly think it would be beneficial for the forum and the community.

To hear more people speaking so openly about their experiences is quite sad really. Such bad personal experiences, and the extremes gone to to ensure people have been pacified.

Maybe some open discussions needs to be had on the other forum about these issues, and formulate the right way forwards. Peoples experiences have been brushed aside over and over, but there comes a point where you surely have to ask where the problem is actually coming from.

This is completely the wrong place for this all to be taking place, but with a gagging order in place elsewhere, and a business as usual approach being taken, I have little faith that there is any intention or interest in stopping things like this happening to anyone else.
Satchers wrote:
18 Jul 2019 17:22
Wow. And I thought the other thread on the other forum was fascinating.... :shock:

I’d really love there to be a forum for se23 that didn’t have these problems. Anyone?

brazil nut
Posts: 65
Joined: 22 Jan 2018 12:38
Location: Forest Hill

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by brazil nut » 19 Jul 2019 14:05

There is a lot of focus here on moderation of the forum and how a revamped forum with CB out of the picture as moderator, and a change of approach for the remaining moderation team, might provide a solution. There appears to be no question that CB's technical skills contribute enormously to what everyone agrees is a modern, user-friendly platform and he has, of course, invested much time, money and effort into the creation and operation of the forum. But an ongoing behind the scenes role still affords him access to users' personal data. Given the revelations of the last week, are people comfortable with that? Can he be trusted with it? Does he fully understand his obligations under GDPR? Has he (and the others in the admin team with access to PD) had proper GDPR training?

For example, do people think this tweet is appropriate? https://twitter.com/SE23lifeChris/statu ... 22368?s=20
My view is that it is not appropriate. But even if others are okay with a forum owner discussing IP addresses and who they belong to publicly on Twitter, I would still argue that it is a breach of DP laws and that, as a data processor, CB should have been aware of this.

What about this? If you scroll down the page you will see that Chris shares a "political compass" diagram from the closed Politicos section on SE23Life, with photos of individuals who will be clearly identifiable by many in the local community: https://disqus.com/home/discussion/broc ... 2931125012

Information about individuals' political opinions is "sensitive personal data" and is subject to even more stringent controls under DP legislation. It's concerning that Chris sees fit to take political data - classed as sensitive PD under the regs - from a closed section on SE23Life and unilaterally share it publicly so it's available for everyone to view on the internet. This is most certainly a breach of data protection legislation and it's concerning to me that a processor of thousands of members' personal data doesn't understand this.

Yes, both the links above do pre-date GDPR, but they still constituted breaches under the previous DP Act and they are indicative that CB doesn't at best understand, or at worst respect, his obligations in handling SE23Life members' personal data. One would like to hope that with the introduction of the larger penalties under GDPR, Chris took it upon himself to undertake formal GDPR training and to provide equally robust training for his team, so that they all now fully understand their DP obligations. I would be asking for evidence of this if the wish within the community is for SE23Life is to continue as proposed.

RJM
Posts: 93
Joined: 2 Jan 2016 15:30
Location: Sydenham

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by RJM » 19 Jul 2019 14:44

Those are good points. I think CB has a rather varied approach to privacy - his own Facebook profile is fairly open and linked to the SE23.life page, and yet Nicola's mention of its content sparked the accusation of "cyber-stalking". That's before taking into account the fact that he's shared what were meant to be private messages.

The SE23 privacy policy doesn't say who has access to your personal data (ie just CB, or all the mods?), and also includes "We do not sell, trade, or otherwise transfer to outside parties your personally-identifiable information". That political compass diagram breaches SE23.life's own privacy policy, although I recognise that the policy may have changed since it was posted.

I agree that additional assurances about GDPR are required at this point.

JGD
Posts: 545
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Perry Hill, SE6 (yup that's Catford)

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by JGD » 19 Jul 2019 14:57

Good points BN - @moderators should note what actions they may have to take to ensure the forum is in compliance - but once more not necessarily insurmountable or even difficult. The point in principle of who might access your data is one for individual users to evaluate. I suspect each of us will have different experiences of where we might have encountered web-sites that are less than competent about how data security is managed and by whom.

I consistently keep personal data provided to any site at an absolute minimum and only provide enough to perform appropriate and selected tasks - so SE23.life will have my email address and my site password. Data-mining of course could come into play - but even then the layer of data that is discoverable will be thin, certainly in my case.
brazil nut wrote:
19 Jul 2019 14:05
For example, do people think this tweet is appropriate? https://twitter.com/SE23lifeChris/statu ... 22368?s=20
Some of us with previous are blocked on CB accounts - any chance you can let us see a screen dump on this one ?

stuart
Posts: 3163
Joined: 21 Sep 2004 10:13
Location: Lawrie Park
Contact:

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by stuart » 19 Jul 2019 15:31

This link appears to have disappeared from Twitter & Google cache: https://twitter.com/SE23lifeChris/statu ... 22368?s=20

If its stuff from CB that might not reflect him in the finest light - don't worry. I have a collection direct from him in my mail inbox. If the mods can restore trust in SE23.life that's where it stays. If CB is intent on covering up what he has done then what should one do with it?

Perhaps the SE23.mods could investigate and advise. Despite being known, a longstanding members with an unblemished posting record it appears I am prevented from contacting them or contributing to debate over there.

I believe they have my email address and they are guaranteed a friendly and constructive response. Let's see if we can cool it and remove unneccessary misconceptions and animosity. It doesn't do anyone any good.

Stuart
Last edited by stuart on 19 Jul 2019 16:05, edited 1 time in total.

brazil nut
Posts: 65
Joined: 22 Jan 2018 12:38
Location: Forest Hill

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by brazil nut » 19 Jul 2019 15:32

JGD wrote:
19 Jul 2019 14:57
SE23.life will have my email address and my site password.
He'll be aware of IP addresses as well, as the tweet clearly shows. This could constitute PD if bundled together with other identifying information, which of course he is able to do. He'll also have access to PD in the form of posts on the forum. Some users may be very cautious about what they write, but others may be more free with information about their locality, health, politics etc. There should be an expectation that content in closed sections of the forum won't be shared publicly. What about private messages, do owner/admin have access to those?

I agree that none of this is insurmountable. It takes an awareness through training and a willingness to comply. My concern is, given the revelations, can Chris Beach be trusted? It's been revealed on Twitter that he gained unauthorised access to private Twitter direct messages exchanged between Nicola and another party. I assume that would take more effort on his part than it would to access PMs exchanged between users of his own forum. Do we believe that a man who would make the effort to gain unauthorised access to someone's private Twitter messages really wouldn't be tempted to access SE23Life PMs behind the scenes if it was easy for him to do so?

To be clear, I'm not making any accusation that this has in fact happened on SE23Life. But aren't these questions to be considered if the community wishes to regain trust in the forum after some pretty damning revelations about the deceptive and underhand practices of its owner?

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