Sockpuppets on t'other forum

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stuart
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by stuart » 31 Jul 2019 10:25

hotterthanurex wrote:
31 Jul 2019 05:55
GDPR doesn't cover what people write on forums or social media. That's covered by usual laws for libel, hate speech, revenge porn, harassment etc. Which is why it seemed so odd when Chris Beach invoked the mysticical powers of GDPR. I'd be surprised if he didn't know it didn't apply?
Chris threatened me with taking my company to its regulatory authority, Nominet, in an attempt to intimidate me into doing something illegal or close STF down as its server provider.

But, being a member of Nominet, I knew the procedure he was threatening to invoke simply didn't apply. I reported his actions to Admin here. The rest is history and may explain why I'm not on his Christmas Card list.

I think he has found legal threats, justified or not, have worked well in the past and will save his remaining reputation for the future.

Stuart

DickWynne
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by DickWynne » 31 Jul 2019 10:54

The visual evidence above begs a number of questions and invites much speculation, but I really can’t be bothered.

The fact remains that Chris’s account is incompatible with information Nicola gained from the police. The only logically possible explanations are:

Two police forces are in error regarding the alleged crime reports
Chris has made a bogus crime report claim
and (for technical completeness but improbable in my view)
Either Nicola or the poster relaying her findings above is being untruthful.

I have heard from both police forces that the anomalous CRN acknowledgements from Chris will be looked into on receipt of a relevant formal crime report. This will be made later today unless (which seems unlikely) Chris can clear up the mystery and exonerate himself.

rod taylor
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by rod taylor » 31 Jul 2019 12:43

I just want to say this is by far the best thread I have ever read on this forum. This is gripping stuff. Keep up the good work guys.

Homecroft
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Homecroft » 31 Jul 2019 13:56

Fair play for grabbing the bull by the horns Dick. It does indeed make a very confusing read, for anyone completely on the outside of this, I am sure they are either completely perplexed, or losing interest. Which is sad, as the whole situation is a very important one. It is amazing how quickly the cracks in the integrity of a man can be painted over, and almost forgotten about, especially by those who refuse to belief he would set out to harm someone mentally or by way of reputation.


DickWynne wrote:
31 Jul 2019 10:54
The visual evidence above begs a number of questions and invites much speculation, but I really can’t be bothered.

The fact remains that Chris’s account is incompatible with information Nicola gained from the police. The only logically possible explanations are:

Two police forces are in error regarding the alleged crime reports
Chris has made a bogus crime report claim
and (for technical completeness but improbable in my view)
Either Nicola or the poster relaying her findings above is being untruthful.

I have heard from both police forces that the anomalous CRN acknowledgements from Chris will be looked into on receipt of a relevant formal crime report. This will be made later today unless (which seems unlikely) Chris can clear up the mystery and exonerate himself.

DickWynne
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by DickWynne » 31 Jul 2019 14:05

<wild hypothesis 2>

Chris made a report to the Met, and maybe they can’t now track it down. We don’t know which Met division he reported to, if he did, so Nicola may have barked up the wrong Met tree, or there is some other explanation why they couldn’t find the report.

Met forwarded the report to Kent police. Why? Well there is no way to be sure where an online accused lives, so Chris’s home location is the only geography they have to go on.

Kent police took one look and said ‘don’t waste our time’.

Chris fished up an old, genuine Kent Police CR acknowledgement, containing the magic word Harassment, and used that with the Met one, redacting both to hide the subterfuge.

</wild hypothesis 2>

This hypothetical sequence is completely compatible with the visual evidence. But it could still be wrong! We are well beyond the looking-glass now.

ETA: It is hard to resist trying to solve this puzzle!

JGD
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by JGD » 31 Jul 2019 14:15

DickWynne wrote:
31 Jul 2019 10:54

I have heard from both police forces that the anomalous CRN acknowledgements from Chris will be looked into on receipt of a relevant formal crime report. This will be made later today unless (which seems unlikely) Chris can clear up the mystery and exonerate himself.
Dick, a number of us feel very strongly about the distinct probability that Nic was the subject of a piece of conspiracy and entrapment, pre-set up in a plan to engage her, harass her and her private accounts and then to report any encounter with her to the police as a potential crime. For the owner of a local forum to engage in such a scheme is almost unthinkable.

To find evidence in the form of incontrovertible fact that this indeed was his plan and he was in the midst of carrying it out before he self-confessed he was fabricating the Flava Baker entities and lied about their relationship with them is actually horrifying. Fear was being foisted on Nic in an uncontrolled manner by this guy.

So question is, what assurances can be given by the police that the anomalous CRN acknowledgements from Chris will be looked into effectively? Do you feel that the position has been considered by officers senior enough in both Services to make such a commitment on the evidence of the documents provided to you by Chris?

Do they in turn understand the nature of Chris's behaviours and how bizarrely he has behaved toward Nic and the fact that given the evidence on Twitter and a local Mums forum over the last days he continues hide his own proclivity to fabricate and obfuscate and to promulgate a view that it is Nic who is telling lies? And has continued to cause some people to take action against her.

He has rejected advice from people he once had respect for to stop his activities.

I hear reports you are a careful man and I am sure will take no step that will harm Nic. And it is hoped there will be a positive outcome.

Nic most of all may need protection from the uncontrolled reactions of this man. Those reactions are possibly based on one dysfunction or another. It makes sense that police be made aware of their presence and potential impact.

DickWynne
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by DickWynne » 31 Jul 2019 14:45

JGD wrote:
31 Jul 2019 14:15
Dick, a number of us feel very strongly ...
Your points are very well taken and it’s not for me, as a latecomer to this lengthy business, to get actively involved. I just happened to unexpectedly come by some potentially conclusive evidence of a single bad act. My speculations may have been unhelpful. I’m PMing you and Nic regarding the full content of your post, but rest assured that in my mind Nic has the reins of this affair.

JGD
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by JGD » 31 Jul 2019 15:00

DickWynne wrote:
31 Jul 2019 14:45
I just happened to unexpectedly come by some potentially conclusive evidence of a single bad act. My speculations may have been unhelpful.
Certainly not unhelpful and not for a moment was there a sense of unilateral action being taken.

In all and every circumstance, these precautions may be required.

Potentially conclusive can but be hoped for.

Especially if it serves to get Chris to listen to the voices of good people telling him to STOP.

michael
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by michael » 31 Jul 2019 15:08

JGD wrote:
31 Jul 2019 14:15
... he self-confessed he was fabricating the Flava Baker entities and lied about their relationship with them is actually horrifying. Fear was being foisted on Nic in an uncontrolled manner by this guy.
Not just Nic's fear but also her children (based on what she posted on Facebook) who heard from friends that their mother was going to be locked up. Whether intentional or unintentional, posting such a statement in the public domain, on a local forum, without giving the accused any opportunity to defend herself in any way (including speaking to the police), has resulted in further public harassment of this person and their family.

Some people will think that this might be deserved after somebody sent a nasty email - but it was a nasty email to an email account deliberately set up under a false name with a false background story for the purposes of entrapment and invading somebody else's private space. Nothing was in the public domain. I don't see this sort of action as harassment (especially since all the data came from a public Facebook account - quite different from the attempt to view data in a private account for which purpose the sock puppet account was set up) but I do see the public response as harassment of an individual and her family.

Incredibly it appears that only when found out/admitted as a sock puppet did this 'harassment' get reported to the police.

beigemartin
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by beigemartin » 31 Jul 2019 16:24

DickWynne wrote:
31 Jul 2019 05:29
...GDPR as the reason the forum could not change ownership, which is the only way I would reactivate my membership of it.
I can't believe this is true. Information is bought and sold all the time... At the limit consider Facebook and their shareholders who sometimes are part owners for only a few minutes. At the most I would have thought a change of ownership may require users to re-accept Terms & Conditions.

stuart
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by stuart » 31 Jul 2019 16:59

beigemartin wrote:
31 Jul 2019 16:24
DickWynne wrote:
31 Jul 2019 05:29
...GDPR as the reason the forum could not change ownership, which is the only way I would reactivate my membership of it.
I can't believe this is true. Information is bought and sold all the time... At the limit consider Facebook and their shareholders who sometimes are part owners for only a few minutes. At the most I would have thought a change of ownership may require users to re-accept Terms & Conditions.
Coincidentally I have an email in my in-tray covering giving me notice of just such a transfer involving an account I have with the company. It contains this phrase in relation to the receiving company:

"The [redacted] will process your personal data fairly and lawfully in accordance with their privacy policy the principles of the Data Protection Act 2018 and the EU General Data Protection Regulation for the purpose of continuing to provide goods, services and information to you."

That's it - no acceptance required by me - just a contact if I want to do anything about it. Did they do wrong?

Stuart

JGD
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by JGD » 31 Jul 2019 19:11

Interesting development - will he need a reference?

Image

RJM
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by RJM » 1 Aug 2019 14:05

To go back to sockpuppeting briefly - I've noticed a non-mod on the other forum making reference to editing titles of threads. Assuming that this isn't a standard ability, would I be right in thinking that's a CB sockpuppet?

Edit: I idly googled the user name and found a matching Twitter profile that confirms my theory! :roll: So he's doing well at "stepping back".

JGD
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by JGD » 1 Aug 2019 14:11

It appears to be a quieter day today. Are appearances deceptive?

Let us use the time to briefly review the behaviours and strategies of the narcissist in extracts from an article by Darius Cikanavicius.

https://blogs.psychcentral.com/psycholo ... t-arguing/

Thank you to two private correspondents who have provided further pointers to me.

You can compare them with those behaviours we have seen used by the owner of SE23.life.

The highlights and emphases are mine.

"6 Toxic Arguing Techniques Used by Narcissists and Manipulators

As someone who has been fascinated by and studied philology (i.e., language), psychology, and argumentation for most of my adult life, I’ve seen thousands of good and bad examples in various scenarios and everything in between. Most people, however, are not knowledgeable in these disciplines and therefore may become easily confused, frustrated, intimidated, or shocked when they encounter certain toxic tactics commonly used by narcissists and other manipulators.

And so we will explore some typical techniques a narcissist uses in conflicts and similar social situations.

1. Arguing in bad faith
When in disagreement, a common person tries to understand the other party, listen to them, be honest, and make sure they understand where others are coming from. Sure, sometimes people can slip and become too upset or too anxious. But generally that’s the unwritten guideline.

Narcissists on the other hand argue in what is sometimes referred to as bad faith. It means that they don’t even care about, or try to understand, the other person. Or even worse, they are dedicated to deliberately misunderstanding and mischaracterizing others, often to the point of absurdity.

They are willingly dishonest, deceptive, and morally corrupt. Often while at the same time quick to accuse others of being dishonest, deceptive, and morally corrupt (more on that in #5).

2. Fallacies, nonsense, word salad
Narcissists are often ill-equipped to have mature discussions or resolve conflicts yet in their mind they are experts at it. As a result, they often use some terms, arguments, or techniques that they’ve heard about yet don’t really understand, all while thinking that they are being rational, reasonable, or correct. Sometimes to the degree that they become extremely upset or even aggressive that you are being irrational, unreasonable, uneducated, and unwilling or unable to have a mature conversation.

Meanwhile in reality, what they’re saying is simply an incoherent rant or an amalgamation of logical and argumentation fallacies, misrepresentation of you, factual errors, emotional language, or pure nonsense (as in something that literally makes no sense). In more extreme cases it is called word salad, as in a mix of words that are just thrown together with no coherence or structure.

3. Provoking, bullying, intimidating
Since a narcissist’s goal is to dominate and be perceived as right at all costs, they often use aggression. This category involves the more overtly aggressive tactics commonly used by narcissists.

Such methods include provoking, bullying, and intimidating, where the narcissist picks on you, calls you names, yells, acts overly emotional, deliberately tries to hurt you, blatantly lies, threatens, or even physically aggresses against you.

Not only that, then they spin it around by presenting it as if by reacting to it or by ignoring them you are the one who’s unreasonable, too emotional, and aggressive against them.


4. Lying, denying, changing definitions
Here, in order to “win,” the narcissist uses more covert tactics.

Sometimes they lie about what happened, what you or they did and didn’t do, or even about what’s real and factually true. Often to the degree of pure denial and delusion. An attempt to confuse the other person and make them doubt their experiences or reality by lying about it is called gaslighting.

Another method that falls in this category is redefining to suit their narrative. For that purpose, they are keen on using euphemistic language or redefining commonly used words to fit their narrative when it clearly doesn’t. Again, the goal is to justify that what they are doing is good and what they are saying is right, even when it clearly isn’t.

Sometimes it means reframing or minimizing their toxic behavior to confuse you. For instance, “I didn’t yell at you, I was just passionate.” Or, “This is not abusive or manipulative, I’m just being assertive and honest.”

5. Deflecting, attacking, projecting
A painfully common tactic used by narcissists is deflect and attack.

Here, the goal is to shift attention from what the narcissist is saying and doing to what you are saying and doing, where they never have to take responsibility for their toxic behavior or address anything you’re saying.

If you bring something up that you don’t like or find to be untrue and problematic, instead of addressing it or taking responsibility for it, they will quickly deflect and go into attack mode.
This means they will use their toxic tactics to quickly shift attention from themselves and bring up something that you may or may not have said or done. Often to the degree where they try to always keep you on the defense by accusing you of all sorts of stuff, some of which includes the things they are actually doing themselves (narcissistic projection).

And if you make a mistake of actually trying to address it, you will get distracted from the initial issue and soon become overwhelmed by all the stuff that now you are expected to address and clarify. And do so to a person who doesn’t care about understanding you and is dedicated to mischaracterizing you in order to dominate and “win an argument.”

6. Involving others and acting out revenge fantasies
Narcissists have extremely fragile egos and a shaky sense of self-esteem. If you actually stand up for yourself and don’t play their games, they perceive it as humiliation, as you being unfair, even abusive to them. In their eyes, you are being unreasonable because you don’t acknowledge that they are superior, right, and all around wonderful people. They find it terribly offensive, and feel shame, injustice, and rage (narcissistic injury).

To regulate their overwhelming emotions, they often try to receive false validation. This means looking for people who would side with them and tell them that you are wrong and evil and they are right and good. It involves lying, smearing, slandering, triangulating, gossiping, stalking, and other forms of social aggression and manipulation.


We explored this more in the previous article titled How Narcissists Play the Victim and Twist the Story.

Summary and final words
In a social interaction, discussion, or argument, regular, well-meaning people treat others with curiosity, empathy, and good faith. A narcissist, on the other hand, sees interaction as a win-lose situation. To “win,” they try to dominate, bully, deceive, demean, humiliate, and hurt others.

For that, they use certain common and predictable tactics that include but are not limited to arguing in bad faith, lying, denying, deflecting and attacking, gaslighting, and intimidating. If and when they feel they have lost or were wronged, they will try to intimidate you further and manipulate others in order to hurt you personally and socially. Sometimes while accusing you of it at the same time.

Engaging with a person who uses these tactics is fruitless, frustrating, boring, and predictable. Yet someone who is not quite familiar with it may think, “But if only I explained myself better…” Or, “But if only I presented my argument better…” Or, “But if only they could understand where I’m coming from…” But if only…."

This post has been GDPR proofed.

hotterthanurex
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by hotterthanurex » 1 Aug 2019 15:15

Oooh, is flavia baker picking up some of the slack? :wink:
RJM wrote:
1 Aug 2019 14:05
To go back to sockpuppeting briefly - I've noticed a non-mod on the other forum making reference to editing titles of threads. Assuming that this isn't a standard ability, would I be right in thinking that's a CB sockpuppet?

Edit: I idly googled the user name and found a matching Twitter profile that confirms my theory! :roll: So he's doing well at "stepping back".

rod taylor
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by rod taylor » 1 Aug 2019 15:21

Genuine question for admin: what steps have been taken to ensure that any of the profiles on this forum are not still Chris Beach sockpuppets?

Excuse my technical ignorance, but is it still a possibility?

As soon as I heard about the actions of this jumped up little man I closed my SE23life account. I honestly think the level of deception and the level of mistrust he has engendered is appalling. Any sympathy I ever had for him has completely gone now because he is so obviously still at it and so obviously doesn't seem to see the harm in it all.

Rachael
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Rachael » 1 Aug 2019 15:42

RJM wrote:
1 Aug 2019 14:05
To go back to sockpuppeting briefly - I've noticed a non-mod on the other forum making reference to editing titles of threads. Assuming that this isn't a standard ability, would I be right in thinking that's a CB sockpuppet?

Edit: I idly googled the user name and found a matching Twitter profile that confirms my theory! :roll: So he's doing well at "stepping back".
Nice try, but members over there at a certain trust level can do those sorts of edits on other people's post without being a mod. Of course why they would want to is a different matter.

promofaux
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Joined: 1 Aug 2019 15:29

Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by promofaux » 1 Aug 2019 15:47

RJM wrote:
1 Aug 2019 14:05
To go back to sockpuppeting briefly - I've noticed a non-mod on the other forum making reference to editing titles of threads. Assuming that this isn't a standard ability, would I be right in thinking that's a CB sockpuppet?

Edit: I idly googled the user name and found a matching Twitter profile that confirms my theory! :roll: So he's doing well at "stepping back".
I'm not a mod there, and I also have the ability to edit titles of threads, it's to do with user "trust level" (I am aware of the irony of the word trust as regards that forum) See below screencap:

Image

Curious to know which one you think is dear leader, I've had a couple of suspicions myself, but not sure enough to bother questioning it.

FYI: I am not CB, BTW.

Robin Orton
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by Robin Orton » 1 Aug 2019 15:51

In my view, JGD's screed about narcissism adds nothing to this discussion. Indeed, I don't think one should speculate about named individuals' possible psychopathology on this sort of forum.
Last edited by Robin Orton on 1 Aug 2019 15:59, edited 2 times in total.

smiris
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Re: Sockpuppets on t'other forum

Post by smiris » 1 Aug 2019 15:55

I know who you mean... and I've had my suspicions for a while too and looking at Twitter it seems to confirm it!

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