The Capitol turning into a cinema...

[parker]

There are rumours that The Capitol in Forest Hill is to be closing within the next 6 weeks and will be turning into a cinema. Anybody know exactly what is happening?

[Smiffy]

http://www.se23.com/forum/showthread.ph ... 217&page=3

Just pray the KICC or some other charlatan prosperity gospel scam doesn't get hold of it.

[Tim Lund]

Also lobby Lewisham to reverse their policy of saving all pubs.

[leenewham]

It would be great if it was a cinema, but with the East Dulwich Picture House coming soon I guess that it may be just a rumour.

Do Lewisham have a policy of 'saving all pubs' or is it a policy of saving them from the clutches of greedy developers and the loss of community space?

[Eagle]

Tim

You seem to have a downer on all Pubs.

Lewisham's so called policy of saving all pubs has been a bit of a disaster .

The Capitol has many people who enjoy spending time there talking to their fellow burghers. It is a meeting point of all views. Cicero would be proud of it.

[parker]

It would be amazing to be walking distance from a cinema as there isn't really anything else much to do around here apart from drink coffee or alcohol. I'd be very upset however if The Capitol turns into a happy clappy church like Crystal Palace and Catford. Some kind of boutique cinema like Picture House would be amazing but I really cannot see it happening. Hopefully it won't stay derelict for long if Wetherspoon close which I believe is actually what is going to happen to be honest...

[Tim Lund]

It would be great if it was a cinema, but with the East Dulwich Picture House coming soon I guess that it may be just a rumour.

Do Lewisham have a policy of 'saving all pubs' or is it a policy of saving them from the clutches of greedy developers and the loss of community space?

The best answer to this I can give is to list the recommendations made by Mayor & Cabinet October 3, 2012, page 120 here, from which I take just

Recommendation 4:

The Development Management Development Plan Document (DMDPD) should include enhanced protection for pubs through its ‘pubs policy’. Any new policy relating to pubs should be consulted on widely and brought before the Sustainable Development Select Committee for scrutiny before being approved.

The new planning policy should assume a default protection for pubs both as a building and as a pub business with the onus on developers to prove why a particular building cannot any longer be a pub by using the following key sections from the National Planning Policy Framework 2012:

• Section 8, paragraph 70, which promotes social, recreational and cultural facilities and services, including pubs.
• Section 12, which seeks to conserve and enhance the historic environment.
• Paragraph 152 which seeks a balance to economic, social and environmental dimensions of sustainable development, with mitigations to negative impacts considered.

This then fed into the Development Management Development Plan Document, DM Policy 20, page 59

DM Policy 20

Public houses

1. The Council will only permit the change of use or redevelopment of a public house (A4) after an assessment of the following:
a. a viability report that demonstrates to the Council's satisfaction that the public house is no longer economically viable, including the length of time the public house has been vacant, evidenced by the applicant of active and appropriate marketing for a constant period of at least 36 months at the existing use value
b. the role the public house plays in the provision of space for community groups to meet and whether the loss of such space would contribute to a shortfall in local provision, including evidence that the premises have been offered to use or to hire at a reasonable charge to community or voluntary organisations over a 12 month period and there is
no longer a demand for such use
c. the design, character and heritage value of the public house and the significance of the contribution that it makes to the streetscape and local distinctiveness, and where appropriate historic environment, and the impact the proposal will have on its significance
d. the ability and appropriateness of the building and site to accommodate an alternative use or uses without the need for demolition or alterations that may detract from the character and appearance of the building.

2. Where the evidence demonstrates to the Council's satisfaction that a public house is not economically viable, but where the building is assessed as making a significant contribution to the local townscape and streetscape, or is assessed as making a positive contribution to the historic environment, the Council will require the building to be retained, and for the
ground floor to remain in use for a range of non-residential uses, including D1, as appropriate.
3. The proposed change of use of a public house for residential use will only be acceptable where:
a. the proposal has been assessed against parts 1c and 1d of this policy and the impact
of the proposal on these features and
b. where the Council is satisfied that residential use is acceptable, the accommodation to be provided is to be of the highest quality and meet the requirements outlined in DM Policy 32 (Housing design, layout and space standards).

So if we want the Capitol returned to being a cinema, it seems we will have to wait three years while it is being marketed as a pub.

Such are the economic and cultural consequences of our absent friends.

[Tim Lund]

As a postscript, it's worth noting the selective use of that NPPF policy

70. To deliver the social, recreational and cultural facilities and services the community needs, planning policies and decisions should:
● plan positively for the provision and use of shared space, community facilities (such as local shops, meeting places, sports venues, cultural buildings, public houses and places of worship) and other local services to enhance the sustainability of communities and residential environments;

Why does Lewisham ignore the protection of other such shared community space, preventing the conversion of churches to residential? How does the selective protection of pubs get past equal opportunities when a significant section of the community will never used them?

Perhaps the answer is to be found in Lewisham's Key finding 1 in its Sustainable Development Select Committee report on Preserving local pubs

Beer, the traditional pub staple, is under pressure from new more cosmopolitan beverages and pubs find that they
must adapt and diversify in order to stay in business.

What sort of London do the people who come up with this sort of thing live in?

[Rachael]

Tim - for all we know, the owners of The Capitol (the building, not the pub) have been advertising for a new pub tenant for the past three years.

Unofficial word from staff at the pub is that there is a done deal for future use as a cinema. Staff have only been told in the last few weeks that Weatherspoons' licence is not being renewed. We don't know how long this has been the plan, however.

There seems a very good chance that this will become a cinema again. The building is listed and the interior mostly intact - the pub sort of squats on the ground and mezzanine floors. The original screen, arches and upper circle of seating are all completely intact. It is one of the few intact Art Deco cinemas in London and with the Overground now no more than a few steps away, I can see it being both a tourist attraction and a local cinema for people living along our part of the Oveground.

[Tim Lund]

If it's done deal, no one will be happier than me, principally because I'll be able to walk to see films rather than have to get on the bus to Beckenham or train to Brixton and places further in.

But I will also take some amusement from the light it sheds on Lewisham's absurd policy on pubs.

[Eagle]

Tim

I have no problem with cinema's and infact spent many happy hours seeing films in the building concerned in the 50's to 70's .

However you seem to have a thing against all Pubs. Of course there are rogue pubs and rogue drinkers , but most Pubs remain a haven for intellectual conversation and a good place for people to meet.

Much worse for society is people who drink at home. This is not social at all.

Tim
Please do not through the baby out with the bathwater. I have spent many hours in The Capitol and rarely saw any hint of trouble. Just good burghers conversing with each other .

[Tim Lund]

I certainly don't have a thing against all pubs, in the same way that I don't have a thing against all churches, synagogues, mosques or street evangelists. I do have a thing against absurd planning policies, which if, in this case, anyone takes seriously, would lead to a three year delay in restoring a former cinema to its original use.

I would imagine it will not be taken seriously in this case, which will leave Lewisham's planning policy, as it has developed, as just something to be cherry-picked by misguided campaigners who no longer feel capable of publicly defending their actions.

[Eagle]

OK Tim

I accept your comment that your are not anti public houses, but seem to recall you were anti Windmill

[Tim Lund]

OK Tim

I accept your comment that your are not anti public houses, but seem to recall you were anti Windmill

Like I'm anti anti-social street evangelists.

[parker]

So here's what's happening for those who haven't heard of this,

Supposedly...

Wetherspoon (The Capitol) are moving down the road to the old Harvester (Grove Tavern) site in Dulwich. The Capitol site IS becoming a cinema (will believe that when I see it...) and M&Co clothing store opposite The Capitol is closing down and becoming a Morrisons M Local.

[hairybuddha]

I hope whatever happens they are able to preserve and maintain the building. I really like it, just a shame that it's currently a 'spoons. And will be good to have someone in The Harvester site. Currently a Greyhound-esque eyesore.

[harrym]

Woooooo! A cinema again in FH would be amazing. I hope it happens.

[Rachael]

So here's what's happening for those who haven't heard of this,

Supposedly...

Wetherspoon (The Capitol) are moving down the road to the old Harvester (Grove Tavern) site in Dulwich. The Capitol site IS becoming a cinema (will believe that when I see it...) and M&Co clothing store opposite The Capitol is closing down and becoming a Morrisons M Local.

Is this based on any new information from reliable sources? Hadn't heard about Weatherspoons taking on the Grove Tavern. That seems like a good fit. Is the cinema rumour still just that, a rumour?

Morrisons have applied to take over M&Co but haven't received permission yet. Public meeting about their licensing application being held tonight.

[Kirkdalian]

So they're opening another cinema just down the road from this? http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/cinema/E ... turehouse/?

[parker]

Rachael, to be fair most things are rumours, only the big bosses know what's going on with their businesses but I would say the source is reliable. I'm not going to say how I heard about the Grove Tavern.

And Kirkdalian, it's kind of been common knowledge of recent about there being cinemas opening in East Dulwich AND Forest Hill as unlikely as their proximity would seem. This thread has established that. It's just as blinkered as a Morrisons M Local wanting to open a few doors away from a medium sized Sainsbury's but there you go...