Mural?

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JMLF
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Re: Mural?

Post by JMLF » 22 Feb 2018 12:31

“Unrelentingly positive” - I quite like that :wink: :lol:

Thank you so much for the kind words and promise of donation!

With social media, especially twitter, writing things online has (to an extent) legitimately become a way of pushing for change..

However in some circumstances we can just get a load of local people together to action some change in a relatively short amount of time rather than putting up an idea into the ether of going through multiple channels/potential barriers that dampen an idea before it even takes off, regardless of if those channels/barriers are ultimately needed!

Yes, the need for online exposure/word of mouth will end up ultimately being the success or failure of the project but things like the Spring clean up (see other thread!), the mural (and hopeful offshoot “green” project around station platforms) and the recent “good gym bromley” input at Sydenham library are all examples of things being done (hopefully successfully!) just through people feeling the donation of time and/or money is worth the betterment of the community and taking action :)

Ps: Didn’t mean for this to sound like some sort of call to arms (!)

Facebook page (Sydenham Mural) though basic is now up so add/let people know if they are not on twitter which will be the main promotional tool by looks of how many local people/businesses are easily visible on there but not on Facebook.

A meeting date will be put forward for a couple of weeks time mainly to discuss voting, promotion/exposure and fundraising.

JMLF
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by JMLF » 28 Feb 2018 07:30

MURAL MEETING - Weds 7th March

7pm at the Greyhound (unless can’t book table or table is dinner only).

Agenda:
Voting - method/timing
Promotion/exposure - method/timing
Fundraising “go live” - timing
AOB - including what ppl can offer (nearby car space, printer, links to useful people or resources etc)

Do let me know if can make it so can book /change venue if needs be etc!

Cheers,

Jon

JMLF
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Sneaky draft submission look!

Post by JMLF » 28 Feb 2018 16:26

Although submissions are to come to the mural email account, a draft has popped up on the other forum!...In light of fair play and sharing everything here is a sneak peak of one of the possible submissions (sounds like he may do more than one) by @Londonsignwrite! (Same guy who did “the Greyhound” sign on our newest oldest pub)

Image

JRW
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by JRW » 28 Feb 2018 21:53

The sneaky preview would look fabulous on the trackside wall where the graffiti was covered up. I know it has been relegated due to access issues, but how about timing it to coincide with track closures? For instance, the Christmas / New year shutdown?

I can't see it working on the panelled wall; competitors need to show how it would work in 3D.

prince
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by prince » 2 Mar 2018 09:08

JRW wrote:The sneaky preview would look fabulous on the trackside wall where the graffiti was covered up. I know it has been relegated due to access issues, but how about timing it to coincide with track closures? For instance, the Christmas / New year shutdown?

I can't see it working on the panelled wall; competitors need to show how it would work in 3D.

Firstly thanks for all your hard work on this project and your enthusiasm.

I am really supportive of this mural project however I do think that there might be better locations for it. My personal preference is to choose a highly visible location where there is a problem of graffiti. There are two locations for me

I agree with JRW the trackside wall is an ideal location for currently it provides an uninviting entrance and first impression for those travelling to sydenham by public transport.

The other location is the flank wall of 4 sydenham road where Property world is located. This is a prominent position as you go over the bridge and is covered in graffiti.

Happy to be involved in this moving forward.

Best

The Clown
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by The Clown » 2 Mar 2018 09:30

Agree with JRW and Prince

JMLF
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by JMLF » 2 Mar 2018 14:04

Before I forget and drivel on - the artist of that draft submission works round the corner and has visited the wall in person so should have anhalf decent idea of what his idea would look like in reality!

There appears a slight cyclical discussion on some of these points which have been brought up previously. I agree with everyone that those two locations would be prime for doing something with, although on almost every count there will be some arguments against I’m sure. E.g: visibility of the railside wall is poor compared to other locations - can’t see it from any streets, and even within the station it can only be seen by one platform could be one “argument” etc.

These do not fit in with this project for a number of reasons (in large part ease/pragmatically getting something up and done and cost).

To summarise those walls and to also offer potential thoughts for those walls in the future:

Railside:
For a start I would encourage the Sydenham society to reaccess this potential as they told me they had permission and funding (!) to do something with that wall last year/year before but no real reason was given for why nothing happened.

It would have to align with far more health and safety bumpf
It would have to be timed with an artist to do the work while the trains weren’t running - meaning the work would have to be done within 2 days (I assume prob most downtime at Syd) - if the artwork picked would take longer than that or there is very poor weather those days then the project becomes even more difficult to complete

No proof/evidence that it won’t just get graffitied over (as unfortunately a few commissioned works around stations have been) even though generally speaking it appears people do leave high quality and/or crowfunded work alone

If it was to get graffitied over it is highly inaccessible for a touch up/to cover

*These are just some issues off the top of my head but would fully like to see the wall adorned with something (as previously posted I have managed to hopefully get it cleaned in the upcoming weeks/months courtesy of NR)

Again, I would encourage SydSoc to revisit this, especially if they had/have funding and have got the knowledge/contacts/permission for sorting this out.

Big wall next to property world:
Would be amazing to have a large piece of art here. That’s all ;)

There will be additional costs (one person in the know suggested approx 50% more) for cherry picker etc.

It would require some digging for who owns the wall as well as any provate properties you would have to access to get to the wall and get permission granted across all I assume

Some access issues again for prepping the wall and any touch ups/cover up perhaps.

But yep, great wall/location and if anyone wants to get on it and find info etc go for it!

I don’t foresee the mural project being successful by a handful of people giving a load of money so when it boils down to it it will be “would you donate towards this piece, this piece or neither” and then if enough people prefer the selected piece to the current wall and donate then it’ll go up. It doesn’t have to be if this artwork goes up here we won’t get one at this location kind of thing. The hope is this would be the first. Then other permissioned walls (currently I’ve only looked into NR as it was easiest and has some of the more visible locations but anyone wanting to give permission or finds permission for other walls can add to the stockpile!!) would be filled by non-commissioned artists showing their wears perhaps and maybe another commissioned piece next year etc.

I’ve never done anything like this before and am not in the industry of art, social media or events and am just trying to use spare time to achieve something nice/wanted by locals up in the neighbourhood :) Granted it won’t all be perfect or be to everyone’s exact preference (art/location) but hopefully a lot of people will prefer it to a blank wall and I don’t think it’s going too bad so far and things are going along at a decent pace towards an achievable short term goal rather than lots of discussion and not much action :)

Cheers,

Jon

prince
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by prince » 2 Mar 2018 14:54

JMLF wrote:Before I forget and drivel on - the artist of that draft submission works round the corner and has visited the wall in person so should have anhalf decent idea of what his idea would look like in reality!

There appears a slight cyclical discussion on some of these points which have been brought up previously. I agree with everyone that those two locations would be prime for doing something with, although on almost every count there will be some arguments against I’m sure. E.g: visibility of the railside wall is poor compared to other locations - can’t see it from any streets, and even within the station it can only be seen by one platform could be one “argument” etc.

These do not fit in with this project for a number of reasons (in large part ease/pragmatically getting something up and done and cost).

To summarise those walls and to also offer potential thoughts for those walls in the future:

Railside:
For a start I would encourage the Sydenham society to reaccess this potential as they told me they had permission and funding (!) to do something with that wall last year/year before but no real reason was given for why nothing happened.

It would have to align with far more health and safety bumpf
It would have to be timed with an artist to do the work while the trains weren’t running - meaning the work would have to be done within 2 days (I assume prob most downtime at Syd) - if the artwork picked would take longer than that or there is very poor weather those days then the project becomes even more difficult to complete

No proof/evidence that it won’t just get graffitied over (as unfortunately a few commissioned works around stations have been) even though generally speaking it appears people do leave high quality and/or crowfunded work alone

If it was to get graffitied over it is highly inaccessible for a touch up/to cover

*These are just some issues off the top of my head but would fully like to see the wall adorned with something (as previously posted I have managed to hopefully get it cleaned in the upcoming weeks/months courtesy of NR)

Again, I would encourage SydSoc to revisit this, especially if they had/have funding and have got the knowledge/contacts/permission for sorting this out.

Big wall next to property world:
Would be amazing to have a large piece of art here. That’s all ;)

There will be additional costs (one person in the know suggested approx 50% more) for cherry picker etc.

It would require some digging for who owns the wall as well as any provate properties you would have to access to get to the wall and get permission granted across all I assume

Some access issues again for prepping the wall and any touch ups/cover up perhaps.

But yep, great wall/location and if anyone wants to get on it and find info etc go for it!

I don’t foresee the mural project being successful by a handful of people giving a load of money so when it boils down to it it will be “would you donate towards this piece, this piece or neither” and then if enough people prefer the selected piece to the current wall and donate then it’ll go up. It doesn’t have to be if this artwork goes up here we won’t get one at this location kind of thing. The hope is this would be the first. Then other permissioned walls (currently I’ve only looked into NR as it was easiest and has some of the more visible locations but anyone wanting to give permission or finds permission for other walls can add to the stockpile!!) would be filled by non-commissioned artists showing their wears perhaps and maybe another commissioned piece next year etc.

I’ve never done anything like this before and am not in the industry of art, social media or events and am just trying to use spare time to achieve something nice/wanted by locals up in the neighbourhood :) Granted it won’t all be perfect or be to everyone’s exact preference (art/location) but hopefully a lot of people will prefer it to a blank wall and I don’t think it’s going too bad so far and things are going along at a decent pace towards an achievable short term goal rather than lots of discussion and not much action :)

Cheers,

Jon
Hi Jon

Just to let you know, if you don’t already, that the location that you prefer falls in the Thorpes Conservation Area, therefore you will need to get conservation area consent.

I thinks it’s best that you therefore have an early discussion with the conservation officer, if you haven’t already, for this will influence what you can and can’t do and any proposed design.


https://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/ ... -Area.aspx

JMLF
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by JMLF » 2 Mar 2018 15:41

Thanks Prince - had no idea! :( Chris Best is aware of this project and has followed/liked a few things on Facebook and twitter so would have hoped she or the Sydenham society with their knowledge of things like this would’ve raised something by now if it was going to be an issue. Therefore my annoying positive head says hopefully it won’t be a problem.

Many thanks and I’ll get in contact with them ASAP - had a quick whizz through the Lewisham Site and the lines of accurate show the area starts half way down that street, half way down the wall. Seems a wee bit arbitrary that the black Turdis can be planted on the same road and opposite the conservation area but not lie within it..
Also knowing nothing about this it also struck me that all the recentish benches, TFL (I think) street signs and the big lit station signs on the approach all fall within the conservation area and aren’t exactly in line/sympathetic with the red brick, grey slate, white sash windows etc aesthetic that is mentioned with the blurb for the area!..

Cheers again! Jon

JGD
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by JGD » 2 Mar 2018 16:26

Jon

First of all - no apology is necessary on your part. The progress so far is remarkable.

I concur with your expressed view that if SydSoc had permissions and funding for the wall opposite the down platform - let that project resume independently of the proposal you have worked up.

The large wall you refer to is included in the Latest Conservation Area Extension.

https://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/ ... onArea.pdf

Interestingly none of the bridge walls or the side wall is included in the area.

Lewisham's document, Sydenham Thorpes ConservationArea, Article 4(2) Direction:A Guide for Owner or Occupiers provides this clarification "It is important to note that:- The Direction is not retrospective and does not apply to works that have already taken
place. - Any planning applications made as a result of the Direction will be free of charge.

Link here:

https://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/ ... upiers.pdf

From Google earth the gable wall at Property World already has evidence of large scale signage painted on the brickwork - along with graffiti (the board will not permit me to include an image from Google Earth).

Ergo it may be reasonable to assume therefore that any refreshment works in the form of further signage could be deemed exempt on grounds that the directive cannot be made to be retrospective. Consultation with Lewisham will quickly determine their position.

Happy to discuss further - possibly at next (Thursday's correction) Wednesday's meeting.

JMLF
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by JMLF » 3 Mar 2018 14:20

Can I ask/remind any submitters to post any designs strictly and solely to the email site sydenhamural@gmail.com - Thanks :)

JMLF
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by JMLF » 3 Mar 2018 19:25

I don’t think this will be the case, but as I didn’t outrightly state, to clarify - 1 submission per artist. Please also check the spec to ensure all required details are included. (Ps: this isn’t a response to anything, just trying to reduce any potential issues that may crop up during the process!). Thanks all :)

JMLF
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by JMLF » 4 Mar 2018 12:23

If anyone is definitely coming to Wednesday’s meeting please let me know! I booked a table for 8 (7 of us last time) but don’t wanna waste a table or turn up Billy no mates! Just be good to know either way :) As said, on the agenda are a few important matters to decide regarding the voting process and crowdfunding/timeline. Cheers!

JGD
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by JGD » 4 Mar 2018 12:36

Jon

I plan to be there.

JRW
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by JRW » 4 Mar 2018 13:16

Me too!

JMLF
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by JMLF » 5 Mar 2018 07:29

Brilliant :) That makes at least 5 with a few others confirmed outside this forum aswell.
Thank-you!

paulsyd
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by paulsyd » 7 Mar 2018 08:59

This has been a great thread to read through with JMLF making fantastic progress. It’s no doubt taken up a lot of time already. Whatever happens, if it gets crowd sourced I’ll certainly contribute. I wonder if the fact it’s not a flat surface makes having a single word difficult. I’d just like to put an idea out there. I’m not convinced myself but I guess now is the time to throw things into the pot.

Could the mural depict the history of Sydenham, with each of the four flat squares having something that illustrated the development of the area? I’ve no real historical knowledge but reading through ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydenham

... the left square could depict the few cottages (Shippenham). The next square having the canal / reservoir, then onto the station etc. I’m sure someone would have better ideas for each illustration that represented major events / developments within the area. Artwork / colours would obviously blend these illustrations into a whole piece.

Not sure I like this, it’s just a thought!

JMLF
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by JMLF » 7 Mar 2018 17:52

Paulsyd - brave man reading through it all! ;) Thanks for the feedback!

The general concept for the project was a large typographic based piece on a NR owned wall and through the last 6 weeks or so (I think*) this has been decided as the location from which the spec and designers have been working from. There does seem a fair bit of support for this specific project but I have also written that if not enough people like the designs submitted then there is definitely wiggle room for the spec/location to change. Or if people do vote well but it does not get funded then either again something needs to change in the spec or it’s just not the right time for Sydenham to want something like this! Obviously I’m hoping that’s not the case and the work put in my designers do appease Sydenhamites enough to fund it!

Think something like your idea would work really well on the bridge or the section at the end of station approach which has 4 or 5 sections but that’s just my opinion. Much like everything, people have stated for and against this type of concept of elements of history and some may have preconceived notions of what it may look like too but examples are..

For - its part of the make up of Sydenham and if it’s not well known then it would be good to bring that knowledge to current residents

Against - Sydenham needs something more modern, elements of the history don’t represent Sydenham or mean anything to people currently living in SE26 - e.g.: people might look at cottages or a canal and not really think anything of it.

If you have read through the thread, the idea following the commission is to have artwork on the other permissioned walls/the bridge and although my thoughts were to be non-commissioned and the artist’s own discretion (with conditions of course), it may well be that another commissioned project could be done if there was the want and could be crowdfunded (e.g.: FH mural was funded in 4 days and many people who wanted to contribute didn’t have the chance to!) or funding could be acquired through other channels perhaps?...

JMLF
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by JMLF » 7 Mar 2018 18:21

Ps: will be in a green hoodie tonight!

JMLF
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Re: sticky:Mural?

Post by JMLF » 7 Mar 2018 22:25

Many thanks to all for coming and contributing to the meeting. Intend to have a synopsis/minutes up over the next few days!

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