URGENT: Livesey in danger!!

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JRW
Posts: 473
Joined: 18 Jun 2015 15:01

URGENT: Livesey in danger!!

Post by JRW »

URGENT NEWS!!

Kier, the Livesey’s landlord, has been negotiating to sell the Livesey and its land to a property developer. The buyer says they are signing the agreement this week.

Today, Lewisham’s lawyers are reminding them that, as an Asset of Community Value, we have the right to bid for it, and to ensure that it is in community use. The developers want to redevelop the sports grounds, which would make the hall’s business unviable, as it would lead to objections to live music, or parties.

On Sunday, at 1.30, we are planning a rally for the Livesey’s supporters, which will give us the chance to take a photo of all the communities that love the Livesey, for press releases. Come and join us, spread the word, and lobby your councillors as soon as possible.
JGD
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Location: Perry Hill, SE6 (yup - that's Bellingham Ward, includes Bell Green and is distinct from Sydenham)..
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Re: URGENT: Livesey in danger!!

Post by JGD »

JRW wrote: 14 Sep 2021 10:27 Kier, the Livesey’s landlord, has been negotiating to sell the Livesey and its land to a property developer. The buyer says they are signing the agreement this week.
The property is being sold by Kier, a self-described infrastructure services and construction company to a company described by JRW as a property developer (not named or identified by JRW).

No significant change there. So save what from whom?

Livesey Hall has three disparate Grade Ii listing: the Hall itself, the boundary wall on the Perry Hill side of the site and the War Memorial.

There are no other listed elements at all and neither are there any "inherited" rights for any other elements or features of the site.

The listings themselves present significant levels of protection for the listed elements against unwarranted development - and no developer would buy-in any risk of failed development into their portfolio. It would be commercial suicide to do so.

That said the consultation for the Local Plan conducted earlier this year, had proposals emerge to "green" the environs around the Hall whilst protecting the listed elements thus making provision for a pleasant and usable space for residents. The area for greening embraces the bowling green, the now defunct and overgrown tennis courts and the dilapidated clubhouse.

I know little of the ACV for the Hall nor of the duration for which the ACV remains current. A maximum of five years from the date of first granting of the ACV is the mandated duration and it is rarely, and possibly never, extended.

ACV's present a 6 month window from the announcement of proposal to dispose for a body to form and constitute itself, express an interest in the property on offer, ingather sufficient funds to buy it and make an offer comparable to the market rate. There is no entitlement to discount the offer price and the seller is not obliged to accept such an offer.

There are VERY few ACV's in the country that have in fact been successfully implemented and at best (or worst) sometimes serve only to impose a six month delay on the actual sale being executed between the principal parties.

ACV's are a non-effective process which has putative values and efficacy. It is a time consuming and resource laden process imposed on local councils who must identify and register subject properties and who have more urgent things on which to spend hard-stretched funds.

Having said all that if a body does constitute itself I'll chip in. I like the operation of the Livesey Hall and the only improvement that locals see as important is the provision of off-street parking for days when it hosts busy funerals and wedding events.
JRW
Posts: 473
Joined: 18 Jun 2015 15:01

Re: URGENT: Livesey in danger!!

Post by JRW »

Come to join the #LoveLivesey rally on Sunday at 1.30 pm, for a photo-op rally. Help show everyone how strongly we feel about the Livesey Memorial Hall's role at the heart of our communities. The group photos will be used on social media, and released to the press solely for our campaign.

You can sign up as a member of the club, which is free, and join the new Friends of the Livesey group. The membership fee is £2, and we hope that those that can make extra donations will help out. We need funds initially for publicity, then for legal advice. You can also sign up for the Bell Green Neighbourhood Forum, which will have some power to promote the Livesey campaign.
JGD
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Location: Perry Hill, SE6 (yup - that's Bellingham Ward, includes Bell Green and is distinct from Sydenham)..
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Re: URGENT: Livesey in danger!!

Post by JGD »

Alternatively go inside - anytime.

View the delightful interior of the building.

Become a member of the club that operates in the building.

It is well run and welcoming.

Not sure it needs to be saved - from anyone or anything.

In fact, if the council had not unlawfully rejected the development plans (their Counsel advised the Council it was unlawful) for the site behind the Hall, the street-parking problems we local residents endure would have been solved by now by the provision of dedicated off-street parking on the development site.

And the operation of the Hall would be made problem-free.

'Tis to be wondered if anyone who lives within two hundred metres of the Hall will sign up to or join any protest. Can we expect to see once more the omni-present "Lewishambles" banner?

Addressing the provision of off-street parking featured prominently in the response to the Consultation for the Local Plan completed in April 2021.
JRW
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Joined: 18 Jun 2015 15:01

Re: URGENT: Livesey in danger!!

Post by JRW »

Perhaps you should pop in and talk to the management? They have been kept on a rolling lease for years, unable to take bookings a year ahead.

Buyers turned up, saying that the club would be evicted next year. No word from their landlord, who are refusing to take calls, or to respond to emails. If we don't show we want it to continue as a community hall, we will lose it.
JGD
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Re: URGENT: Livesey in danger!!

Post by JGD »

JRW wrote: 17 Sep 2021 11:16 Buyers turned up, saying that the club would be evicted next year. No word from their landlord, who are refusing to take calls, or to respond to emails. If we don't show we want it to continue as a community hall, we will lose it.
Reasonable people would want to see substantive evidence.

If the new purchasers intend to evict - what are their plans for the site? There is sufficiency in the Grade II Listed protections to ensure nothing untoward happens in any work or development done to the Hall.

What is your stance on the provision of off-street parking for the Hall? Did you know this is a real issue for near neighbours?

There has been a happy band of non-representative people in the borough seeking to and succeeding in having a raft of properties both designated as ACV and Locally Listed. The status of both designations are ineffective - and as an example, even though the Gas Holders were belatedly locally listed (not nationally listed Grade II as the Hall is), they were demolished.

So if the clock is running on the proposed sale of the Hall and the ACV for the Hall is valid, there is a six month window to form a body and gather funds to buy the Hall under the provisions of the ACV statutes. What plans have you made and what sources of funds do you have in mind and are those sources willing to commit to such a nebulous venture. Will you be able to guarantee the funds to enable any newly formed body to make a bid that is greater than the current bidder's offer? Do you know what the value of that offer is and thereby have a target for fund-raising purposes?

Remember, Kier's is not obligated under ACV rules to accept any bid and certainly not a discounted one.

Do adopt a transparency, not present in some of your campaigns, on this one - do let supporters know what they are buying into.
JRW
Posts: 473
Joined: 18 Jun 2015 15:01

Re: URGENT: Livesey in danger!!

Post by JRW »

Speak to the licensee.
JGD
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Re: URGENT: Livesey in danger!!

Post by JGD »

JRW wrote: 17 Sep 2021 13:18 Speak to the licensee.
Why - what does the licensee know about your plans for a campaign?

Or about what plans the Hall's potential new landlord has?

Please tell us you are not building a very public campaign around a single conversation you have had with the licensee about difficulties they have making contact with a potential new owner?

Did you tell the licensee that there is an ACV order in place and that you plan to run a campaign to exercise rights under ACV statutes?

Do you have provision within your plan to extend the current licensees tenure or will your plan cause the licensee to be evicted should you succeed?
JRW
Posts: 473
Joined: 18 Jun 2015 15:01

Re: URGENT: Livesey in danger!!

Post by JRW »

I was sitting next to Colleen, the licensee, when i read your allegations. She was pretty unimpressed with your efforts. I haven't and will never take any action without discussing it with her first, and I am doing everything I can to support her in securing her future.

Please check your facts with her, and stop making an idiot of yourself.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
JGD
Posts: 1135
Joined: 5 Feb 2018 11:39
Location: Perry Hill, SE6 (yup - that's Bellingham Ward, includes Bell Green and is distinct from Sydenham)..
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Re: URGENT: Livesey in danger!!

Post by JGD »

Julia, fairly typical of you.

Name calling is usually your last resort.

Do you remember the time you posted a false allegation, fabricated and posted by you, (as yet not withdrawn) that all my neighbours must fear me ?

You have propensity to go low, Julia and with a significant measure of consistency. I have some pride in that I am one of a long list of people that you have made false and inaccurate allegations over a long period of time. Generally deployed when you do not want to be open or describe precisely about what you are campaigning.

When will you end that practice? You must know by now that I and most others disregard your commentary when you take this route.

I note you have declined to answer a single question.

Why do you feel invoking someone else's displeasure is the way to persuade others to your cause?

Answer at least some of the questions - just this once.
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