Seats on the train

[Nickerbockers]

There are two trains of a morning from Sydenham that I head for, and both always have seats when they pull in - so far anyway - so I'm finding it okay. That said, I feel so sorry for those people cramming themselves on and Brockley and New Cross Gate, I try not to look as I always imagine how they must feel, every day standing up however long it takes to get to London Bridge.

That said it's good to get a seat! I tell you, commuting to London Bridge from Catford Bridge is no laughing matter! None of the Charing Cross trains (yes they have those, when will Sydenham do the same???) call at London Bridge after a certain time, and the Canon Street trains that DO call at London Bridge are about 6 carriages and absolutely packed! I would always pick Sydenham to do this commute, I've been quite pleasantly surprised!

[bensonby]

I can confirm that the one about ten to 6 in the morning has plenty of seats.....the 0621 is crowded, but normally has seats.

the joys of starting work in North London at 0800hrs

[Ronski]

Was anyone on the 4 carriage train ( usually 8 ) that pulled up around 8:50 today then got stuck at Forest Hill for 15 mins, 2 stops later it was carnage. One guy at Brockley tried to barge his way on telling people to move down (it was painfully obvious everyone had done that the last 3 stops). One guy told him off & I wanted to cheer, if there's no room there's no room & people can only move down as far as they can. What a rubbish service it is sometimes.

okay rant mode off - (at least I can get a seat most days)

[Chazza]

I was on a train yesterday that stood still between Forest Hill and Honor Oak Park for a good fifteen minutes - apparently there was a faulty train further up the line.

[Nickerbockers]

My mate and I squeezed onto the late 7.53 (came at 8am) yesterday, that was a joy! We were nose-to-nose standing up by the time we left Forest Hill, but that didn't stop people at the remaining stations calling 'Can you MOVE DOWN please!' as if there was some space nobody else had seen somewhere!?? I do hate people who do that - I understand their frustration but it's not everyone else's fault they can't fit on, like Ronski says you can only move if there's room to move to and it's obvious when there isn't!

Grrrr!!!

[Ronski]

Does anyone know the email for complaints about overcrowding on this line, maybe if we all complained every single day it happened they might notice....probably not but hey you never know

[Barty]

As a (fairly new) member of Southern staff this is a very interesting thread!!! (I don't wear uniform so don't try and stalk me )

I wanna ask you all, what winds you up most about Southern's services? Does anything puzzle you about the way trains run and the things that happen?

Perhaps I can become STF's rail information service?!

[lambchops]

My mate and I squeezed onto the late 7.53 (came at 8am) yesterday, that was a joy! We were nose-to-nose standing up by the time we left Forest Hill, but that didn't stop people at the remaining stations calling 'Can you MOVE DOWN please!' as if there was some space nobody else had seen somewhere!?? I do hate people who do that - I understand their frustration but it's not everyone else's fault they can't fit on, like Ronski says you can only move if there's room to move to and it's obvious when there isn't!

Grrrr!!!

when people ask this, they can see through the windows that there's a dickhead standing a few steps down the carriage and not moving down to make room.

[lambchops]

I wanna ask you all, what winds you up most about Southern's services? Does anything puzzle you about the way trains run and the things that happen?

Being given excuses by recorded information service as to why trains are late.

We all know it's bullshit.

If the train is late, then it's late. I don't need to know that it's due to crap like "adverse rail conditions".

[Barty]

Would you rather just hear "your xxxx Southern service to xxxxxxxx is xxx minutes late. Bad luck."??

Seriously, icy rails are a genuine problem. Think about it, in your car, you drive round the icy patch. Where does the train go? Over the icy rail, or nowhere.

[Ronski]

[when people ask this, they can see through the windows that there's a dickhead standing a few steps down the carriage and not moving down to make room.

ha I saw this today at the other end of the carriage & thought the same thing.

However the majority of the time I see people shout move down regardless if there's any room or not so the dickhead role seems to be entirely interchangeable. Anyway regardless it's the train companies fault the trains are overcrowded, I wish people on the trains would remember that.

Other annoying things? Well the recorded announcements telling me how sorry they are the train is delayed do wind me up. Another minor thing would be the single screen in the station saying when the next train is...that then cycles through other announcements about engineering works & not the bloody train times...this is usually just as the London Bridge train pulls in. So apart from the plastic 'cheery' plants & the station falling apart & seats made out of metal (perfect for winter) the station is lovely lol.

Sorry had to get that off my chest.

[Chazza]

Another minor thing would be the single screen in the station saying when the next train is...

It's not minor, it's very annoying and I wish they'd install another screen at the other end of the platform. I like to walk down to the front of the train at Sydenham, because walking from the back of the train to the ticket barrier at London Bridge, with the zombie-like masses, at a snail's pace, winds me right up.

However, this means that I can't see the one departures board at the other end of the platform, so I'm oblivious to Southern's comical explanations for delays, for example those caused by last week's "poor rail conditions".

[Barty]

....it's the train companies fault the trains are overcrowded...

Not exactly. If Network Rail were to lengthen platforms, the train operators could run longer trains.

....Southern's comical explanations for delays, for example those caused by last week's "poor rail conditions".....

Check my last post out! You don't expect to be able to drive your car across a sheet of ice safely, why should you expect a train to run along a rail coated with ice safely?

....the single screen in the station saying when the next train is...that then cycles through other announcements about engineering works...

If those notices about forthcoming engineering works were not displayed on the screen along with the time of your next train, you wouldn't even know about them, be honest! You'd then turn up that weekend and moan "BUS? Replacement BUS? There were no notices about that!!!!"

Sheesh.....poor train operators!

[Ronski]

....it's the train companies fault the trains are overcrowded...

Not exactly. If Network Rail were to lengthen platforms, the train operators could run longer trains.

Okay so what is the solution, is there a reason you can't run more trains instead? Will demand always outstrip supply do you think?

On a similar note why do the operators run 4 carriage trains on the weekends, because they are less frequent you can end up with the same overcrowding on the weekends as you do in the week. Do you think we'll miss it on the weekends

[If those notices about forthcoming engineering works were not displayed on the screen along with the time of your next train, you wouldn't even know about them, be honest! You'd then turn up that weekend and moan "BUS? Replacement BUS? There were no notices about that!!!!".

lol are you being serious? Just install another screen it's real simple. One displays train times the other anything else? It doesn't work with one screen that's all, loads of other stations have a proper display of information wouldn't you agree?

Sheesh.....poor train operators!

I'm afraid I don't have any sympathy for the operators. The staff who get shouted at I really do feel for. The people who can't get a seat they paid for I have sympathy for, the people rammed in the carriages (where cattle would get better treatment) I have sympathy for. The people getting shouted at/barged who can't move down the carriage I have sympathy for etc etc. Poor commuters

It's always easy to moan about these things but then we get so many reasons to I doubt there will ever be a quick fix to these problems which is a shame.

[Nickerbockers]

My mate and I squeezed onto the late 7.53 (came at 8am) yesterday, that was a joy! We were nose-to-nose standing up by the time we left Forest Hill, but that didn't stop people at the remaining stations calling 'Can you MOVE DOWN please!' as if there was some space nobody else had seen somewhere!?? I do hate people who do that - I understand their frustration but it's not everyone else's fault they can't fit on, like Ronski says you can only move if there's room to move to and it's obvious when there isn't!

Grrrr!!!

when people ask this, they can see through the windows that there's a dickhead standing a few steps down the carriage and not moving down to make room.

Not the case most of the time actually. That particular day there was not an IOTA of room without us sitting on people's laps, and that is usually the case when people say that! And anyway, what about shorter people who can't reach to hang on over their heads? They can't exactly move down away from the handle that is at waist-height to one they can't use and be thrown around hte train the whole journey can they?! People just don't think!!!

[Barty]

...is there a reason you can't run more trains instead? ...

Yes. They all have to GO somewhere. There are only a finite number of platforms at London Bridge, Charing X, Caterham, Sutton, etc. More trains means finding more platforms. Easier to lengthen platforms than to completely redesign a whole London terminus.

....Will demand always outstrip supply do you think?...

It does seem that way. Britain's railways now carry more passengers than they did before WWII.

...On a similar note why do the operators run 4 carriage trains on the weekends, because they are less frequent you can end up with the same overcrowding on the weekends as you do in the week.

Maintenance. If they are all out running services round the railways during the week, when are theysupposed to fix them?

...Just install another screen it's real simple. One displays train times the other anything else?

There already is another "screen" so to speak. It's called a poster. Forthcoming engineering works are displayed on a big poster in the station. But people don't read that. So it goes on the screen. How many screens shoudl Southern install before everyone reads the engineering notices?!

[Nickerbockers]

And what is up with the trains this week??? The 7.53 coming in at 8am, the 7.45 coming in at 7.50, trains cancelled, and my personal favourite of late, the 7.18 coming in at something like 8am last week!!?? Icy lines, yeah mate heard it all before - but it's an absolute shambles, just a free-for-all of trains coming whenever they feel like it!

[Ronski]

How many screens shoudl Southern install before everyone reads the engineering notices?!

I already said, install one more, one for times one for notices, it's not difficult is it? Why is it a problem to do that?

Anyone else here agree?

[Barty]

Flipside of that coin....what's the problem with having information that needs to be given to people on the screen that people look at the most?!!!

Or indeed what's the problem with people reading the information on a poster?

....Icy lines, yeah mate heard it all before...

Maybe so, but nobody has yet answered me.....why expect a train to go up a hill on an icy track, when you can't drive up an icy hill on a road in a car?

.....The 7.53 coming in at 8am, the 7.45 coming in at 7.50....

These aren't massive delays, are they, really? Nobyd moans when a bus is a few minutes late. No....actually you don't know when a bus is supposed to come anymore cos the timetable just says "about every 10 minutes" - if it's good enough for TfL perhaps Southern should try that?

...trains coming whenever they feel like it!...

Hahahahaaaaa!!!!!
Every train has a "path" - in other words it is supposed to be in a certain place at a certain time as it makes its journey.
If a train misses its path, for whatever reason (e.g. a dog on the line between Syd and Forest Hill a few weks back, a fatality at Honor Oak Park last week, slipping on an icy rail, passengers not moving down inside carriages, blocking doors, not letting passenger off...etc etc etc) it not only delays itself, but everything else coming along behind it.

[bensonby]

These aren't massive delays, are they, really?

They are as a proportion of a 15 minute journey though...



the question, as I see it, is threefold:

How can the railway companies justify their very high fares when they provide a service that often doesn't perform as advertised? (and how is it justified besides?) Any other company would be forced to give refunds left right and centre.... If I pay you to do something for me at a specific and you take longer than advertised then I'd expect some kind of discount.

How come they havn't come up with solutions to seasonal and predictable problems..... they have had 180 to think about it.

How come other countries can run much more efficient systems much more cheaply? (think of japan - where delays are measured in seconds)







(I'm not using you as a sounding-board or punch bag for the railways. On one hand I'm genuinely interested in the answers and in the other hand I got rather frustrated sometimes when I was commuting at rush hour)