Strikes....

[Eagle]

Of course you can withdraw your labour but move onto another job or not be surprised if you get sacked.

[bensonby]

Bensonby: I do disagree about the 35k not being 'a fortune'.

I suppose we'll have to agree to differ on that one then. I'd just say that there are plenty of jobs that hover around the mid to low thirties...police officer, teacher, Army NCO and so on that I wouldn't be considered that "high flying." Considering house prices and the cost of living I don't think you'll find many families living the "high life" on a £35k salary...ipso facto, it's not a fortune.

I just have to say I find it quite insulting and belittling to say 35k isn't much and a salary worth going on strike over!

I didn't say that...I did say (or imply) that it was right to strike to defend such a salary. You are apparently implying that it would be wrong to strike to defend wholesale pay cuts.

I heard the average was about £24k which is much more in keeping with mine and my friends/family's experience!

I admit that I've not done a huge amount of research.....but when I googled "average london salary" the link I posted above came up as the top answer.

As for striking, I wouldn't strike... and I'm an NHS Secretary protected by Unison. The place would fall apart without the Secretaries and I guess we just care too much about the people we provide a service for to ever think about striking, and believe me we would have very good reason to. My job is on the list of one of the most stressful jobs you can have.

my bold.

I'd argue then that you are undervalued and therefore had the perfect excuse to strike, or threaten too in the persuance of reasonable demands. "They care too much about their jobs" is a bit of a cop-out on the part of management to treat staff shoddily; dubbing something a "vocation" is often a ruse to underpay staff - nursing is a prime example.

[bensonby]

I think that, for a lot of people in the private sector, who seem by and large to be the ones more threatened by redundancy, pay cuts, short-term working and the like in the current economic climate, that is very much true.

But that is why wages are higher in the private sector - as compensation. I could earn a huge amount more in the private sector (friends who work there do)....I opted for the public sector, in part, because I wanted job security, a steady transparant pay scale and a pension. In return I accept that I'm never going to be "rich." (probably)

[bensonby]

downing tools for the sake of 0.5%, isn't likely to endear you to the populace;

But what if inflation is greater than 0.5%? Then the workers are receiving a pay cut...... is it fair that someone should be paid less money for doing the same amount of work?

[Nickerbockers]

Bensonby: I do disagree about the 35k not being 'a fortune'.

I suppose we'll have to agree to differ on that one then. I'd just say that there are plenty of jobs that hover around the mid to low thirties...police officer, teacher, Army NCO and so on that I wouldn't be considered that "high flying." Considering house prices and the cost of living I don't think you'll find many families living the "high life" on a £35k salary...ipso facto, it's not a fortune.

I just have to say I find it quite insulting and belittling to say 35k isn't much and a salary worth going on strike over!

I didn't say that...I did say (or imply) that it was right to strike to defend such a salary. You are apparently implying that it would be wrong to strike to defend wholesale pay cuts.

I heard the average was about £24k which is much more in keeping with mine and my friends/family's experience!

I admit that I've not done a huge amount of research.....but when I googled "average london salary" the link I posted above came up as the top answer.

As for striking, I wouldn't strike... and I'm an NHS Secretary protected by Unison. The place would fall apart without the Secretaries and I guess we just care too much about the people we provide a service for to ever think about striking, and believe me we would have very good reason to. My job is on the list of one of the most stressful jobs you can have.

my bold.

I'd argue then that you are undervalued and therefore had the perfect excuse to strike, or threaten too in the persuance of reasonable demands. "They care too much about their jobs" is a bit of a cop-out on the part of management to treat staff shoddily; dubbing something a "vocation" is often a ruse to underpay staff - nursing is a prime example.

I'm wondering why you're so pro striking? And yes I think you got the 'average wage' wrong. I've definitely heard it's 10k less than you're saying... so if you look at this issue again, these people are kind of on 'a fortune'!

[bensonby]

no, my estimates are just about right looking into it a little bit more....The median weekly earning in London at the end of last year was £613 a week. That translates as a hair under £32k. So my approximation of "the average" was about right.

source here: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285


Therefore, surely, you can't say £3k pa above the average is a "fortune" what kind of lifestyle would you think a family living on that sort of money could afford? Hardly one of unfettered opulance!


I'm not "so pro striking" I just see it as a very useful and powerful tool in the box. And I find it alarming at how people seem to have a general distatse for strike action. If someone is having their pay cut unfairly then why shouldn't they object vehemently and take whatever action to defend their pay and conditions?

[Nickerbockers]

Well I've looked around and everywhere I look has a different figure for the national average annual wage - so I'm sticking with 24k. If 35k is such a common annual salary then how come I don't know anyone at all who earns anything near that!?

I will never agree with striking, and if their salary is bloody 35k then they should think themselves lucky and get on with it... just like the vast majority out there have to do, and just pull the purse-strings in if things are tough!! If everyone else can do that, and many of them on a lot less thant 35k, then they should be able to!

[Willy]

I bet the post office ballot papers get delivered on time...

[Trawlerman]

Strikes, 'modernisations', 'rationalizations', pay cuts, lay-offs, exploitation...
Its an ongoing vicious circle and the powerful and wealthy have always come out on top.

Modernisation sounds good, but it is often a cover for job cuts.
I don't see anything particularly 'modern' in a lengthening dole queue.


Did I notice somebody mention that your employer may get 'hurt' if you strike? Maybe..But 'hurt' in this context is rather relative.

Invariably it has been the 'workers' who get 'hurt'...And they have had to fight every inch of the way for anything approaching a decent wage and
reasonable conditions.

Yes, industrial action should be a 'last resort' but people often feel threatened, frustrated and powerless.
They do not trust the company executives and their pocketed politicians...and who can blame them?
Top pay and perks still go up, redundancies are up and billions have floated down the drain
followed by billions more...gratis to failed banks...courtesy of you and me [via our worthy government] and we are distracted by 'strikes' and we swallow the line that we should take even more cuts to our public services.

Lay back, close your eyes and take your medicine.
Go on...You know what's good for you.

[bensonby]

Well I've looked around and everywhere I look has a different figure for the national average annual wage - so I'm sticking with 24k. If 35k is such a common annual salary then how come I don't know anyone at all who earns anything near that!?

I have provided figures to back up my claims about the average salary. Why don't you do the same?

Until that happens then I'll stand by my claim that the average salary in London is in the low 30s.

I will never agree with striking, and if their salary is bloody 35k then they should think themselves lucky and get on with it... just like the vast majority out there have to do, and just pull the purse-strings in if things are tough!! If everyone else can do that, and many of them on a lot less thant 35k, then they should be able to!

rather than being bitter and getting sidetracked over what people earn (not wealthy people I might add) the principle of strikes and industrial action is that people should protect their pay and conditions. The simple question is - why should people accept pay cuts for doing the same amount of work or, even, more work for the same money?

[Eagle]

I would be surprised if the average London salary is as high as quoted.
Maybe central london , but Penge , Footscay , Mitcham ??? I am not so sure.
Are we talking about the average wage of London residents or London employees , not at all the same

[dickp]

Small companies often get hurt if cheques get stuck in the post for days on end. Thousands of pounds sent, but not delivered. It cripples their cashflow.

It would be nice if all clients paid by BACs, but they don't. It would be nice if banks would tide companies over, who have wages to pay (but invoices outstanding). But they don't. And if you call the client asking for a replacement BACs payment, they think they smell a rat - and won't trade with you in the future. Which creates a downward spiral.

I used to work for a company that was already hit by the start of the recession. A recent postal strike was the final nail in the coffin.

[Trawlerman]

I have real sympathy with companies and individuals who need the postal service to survive... But we must not get away from the point that it is...a service. It should serve everybody, including the little old man / lady in the country whose post office / postal delivery is a lifeline. [Not just a myth...they do exist...]

Is this 'profitable' ...probably not. Not when you really understand that 'profit' in this context is narrowly defined purely in financial terms.

Also, we all know the modernisation plans really are a cover for closures, job cuts ,increased work-loads for those that are left on the workforce and big bonuses for the bosses [for the difficult decisions they have to make...cutting jobs and standing up to the unions...]

A way forward needs to be found that is both 'rational' and 'human'.

Is this too much to ask for?

[Trawlerman]

Average? Income? Salary?

We should take care...
There are huge numbers on low wages...trying to make ends 'meat', with a real 'steak' in their communities...That's the only 'steak' they'll be able to afford...
There are also a few who make millions in salary / perks / fringe benefits. Trough-guzzling, Michael extracting gambling bankers doing an 'Oliver' [for example]

That's a good one...'Doing an Oliver' ...Geddit???

Let's not, please, get bogged down in splitting hares [illegal anyway...ask the RSPCA.