NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

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thebookshop
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NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by thebookshop » 12 Aug 2019 10:15

We're very excited to announce that on Friday 30th August at 7:30pm - we'll be hosting our first ever LGBTQIA+ Book Group!

This Book Group is the GBF* to our Open Book Group and aims to focus on LGBTQIA+ literature and narratives. It will be running on the last Friday of every other month and absolutely anybody is welcome to join us as we discuss our chosen book over a glass of wine.

To start us off, we’ll be reading and discussing James Baldwin’s seminal and sublime second novel published in 1956; Giovanni’s Room.

Haunting, controversial and a classic of gay literature. Set in a 1950s Paris swarming with expatriates and characterized by dangerous liaisons and hidden violence, an American finds himself unable to repress his impulses, despite his determination to live the conventional life he envisions for himself. After meeting and proposing to a young woman, he falls into a lengthy affair with an Italian bartender and is confounded and tortured by his sexual identity as he oscillates between the two.

Examining the mystery of love and passion in an intensely imagined narrative, Baldwin creates a moving and complex story of death and desire that is revelatory in its insight.

*Gay Best Friend

Image

rod taylor
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by rod taylor » 14 Aug 2019 12:39

thebookshop wrote:
12 Aug 2019 10:15
we'll be hosting our first ever LGBTQIA+ Book Group!
LGBTQIA+

What is this?

Robin Orton
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by Robin Orton » 14 Aug 2019 13:30

I'd say 'Google it, Rod' if I didn't think you knew perfectly well already and were just being mischievous.

thebookshop
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by thebookshop » 14 Aug 2019 13:33

Hi Rod!

LGBTQIA+ stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer/questioning, intersex, asexual and many other terms (such as non-binary and pansexual).

We hope this helps!

stuart
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by stuart » 14 Aug 2019 13:38

It might be helpful to have the group's mission. Does LBGTQIA+ reflect the composition of the group, the books chosen or both?

Stuart

thebookshop
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by thebookshop » 14 Aug 2019 13:44

As stated, the book group aims to focus on LGBTQIA+ literature and narratives. We welcome anyone who wishes to join no matter how they identify.

rod taylor
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by rod taylor » 14 Aug 2019 14:33

thebookshop wrote:
14 Aug 2019 13:33
LGBTQIA+ stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer/questioning, intersex, asexual and many other terms (such as non-binary and pansexual).
Thank you bookshop - I was struggling to pronounce it but now I know it's an acronym.
Robin Orton wrote:
14 Aug 2019 13:30
I'd say 'Google it, Rod' if I didn't think you knew perfectly well already and were just being mischievous.
Oh ye, of little faith.

John H
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by John H » 14 Aug 2019 14:46

stuart wrote:
14 Aug 2019 13:38
It might be helpful to have the group's mission. Does LBGTQIA+ reflect the composition of the group, the books chosen or both?

Stuart
Given the the "Q" stands for the most appallingly prejudicial and offensive term ever coined I doubt it. Only someone totally ignorant of gay history and how this term was used to tyrannise gay men (in particular) and seeking to patronise for profit (perhaps) would deploy this highly offensive homophobic expression.

thebookshop
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by thebookshop » 14 Aug 2019 15:14

Actually, I do identify as a member of this community and that is why I have decided to set up this book group. We in no way intend to profit or patronise. While the word 'queer' has been used as a derogatory term for gay men in the past and indeed still can be - it has also been reclaimed by members of the community who feel that perhaps past labels don't quite cover how they may identify. The violence of the word is negated in this reclamation to turn its original intent on its head, to give power and agency to those who wish to identify as it.

Here is a great article about reclaiming the word:
https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/community/11 ... n-in-2019/

stuart
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by stuart » 14 Aug 2019 17:47

thebookshop wrote:
14 Aug 2019 15:14
While the word 'queer' has been used as a derogatory term for gay men in the past and indeed still can be - it has also been reclaimed by members of the community who feel that perhaps past labels don't quite cover how they may identify. The violence of the word is negated in this reclamation to turn its original intent on its head, to give power and agency to those who wish to identify as it.
Well said!

Stuart

rod taylor
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by rod taylor » 14 Aug 2019 18:22

stuart wrote:
14 Aug 2019 17:47
thebookshop wrote:
14 Aug 2019 15:14
While the word 'queer' has been used as a derogatory term for gay men in the past and indeed still can be - it has also been reclaimed by members of the community who feel that perhaps past labels don't quite cover how they may identify. The violence of the word is negated in this reclamation to turn its original intent on its head, to give power and agency to those who wish to identify as it.
Well said!

Stuart
Well said, but I’d urge caution given that some within the gay community still regard the word as degrading.

RJM
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by RJM » 15 Aug 2019 08:36

Surely it depends on context? I would hesitate to use it to describe someone else, because I'm straight. If people want to use it to self-describe, as in this case, then it's got a different connotation.

Anyway, book group sounds interesting! I can't go, but would be interested to know about future sessions as being recommended books I might not normally come across is a good thing.

Parker1970
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by Parker1970 » 15 Aug 2019 09:53

rod taylor wrote:
14 Aug 2019 18:22
stuart wrote:
14 Aug 2019 17:47
thebookshop wrote:
14 Aug 2019 15:14
While the word 'queer' has been used as a derogatory term for gay men in the past and indeed still can be - it has also been reclaimed by members of the community who feel that perhaps past labels don't quite cover how they may identify. The violence of the word is negated in this reclamation to turn its original intent on its head, to give power and agency to those who wish to identify as it.
Well said!

Stuart
Well said, but I’d urge caution given that some within the gay community still regard the word as degrading.
I'm in that camp (no pun intended). Though likely more because of my generation. The word queer was used as an insult and it will always mean that to me. If people want to identify as that though, not my concern, as long as it isn't used to refer to me.

rod taylor
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by rod taylor » 15 Aug 2019 13:45

:cry: o
Parker1970 wrote:
15 Aug 2019 09:53
I'm in that camp (no pun intended). Though likely more because of my generation. The word queer was used as an insult and it will always mean that to me. If people want to identify as that though, not my concern, as long as it isn't used to refer to me.
Given that both you and John H would object to being called queer but the bookshop and Stuart presumably wouldn’t mind given that they have reclaimed it; how does a sensitive person negotiate this?

I don’t want to accidentally insult someone.

The reading group sounds a lovely idea - I’d recommend a reading of Ginsberg’s Kaddish if you’re looking for texts. Also Jean Genet’s Miracle of the Rose.

Dom Johnston
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by Dom Johnston » 15 Aug 2019 14:09

I'd recommend the bible to put an end to all of this nonsense!

That is a total joke BTW, I'm not sure if you're looking for fiction recommendations...

I think it's a wonderful idea and a great way to open people's eyes to literature they may not have found otherwise. Unfortunately I will be away for this one, but would very much be open to coming along for any future events that you hold :) :rainbow:

rod taylor
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by rod taylor » 15 Aug 2019 14:42

thebookshop wrote:
12 Aug 2019 10:15
To start us off, we’ll be reading and discussing James Baldwin’s seminal and sublime second novel published in 1956; Giovanni’s Room.
Be careful not to use the N word though:

Professor investigated for quoting Baldwin’s use of the N word - today’s Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/ ... urie-sheck

In other words you can use queer because it has been reclaimed but not the N word (which has also been reclaimed); unless there are BAME at the reading group. They can.

John H
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by John H » 16 Aug 2019 14:32

rod taylor wrote:
15 Aug 2019 13:45
:cry: o
Parker1970 wrote:
15 Aug 2019 09:53
I'm in that camp (no pun intended). Though likely more because of my generation. The word queer was used as an insult and it will always mean that to me. If people want to identify as that though, not my concern, as long as it isn't used to refer to me.
Given that both you and John H would object to being called queer but the bookshop and Stuart presumably wouldn’t mind given that they have reclaimed it; how does a sensitive person negotiate this?

I don’t want to accidentally insult someone.

The reading group sounds a lovely idea - I’d recommend a reading of Ginsberg’s Kaddish if you’re looking for texts. Also Jean Genet’s Miracle of the Rose.
Let me explain then

The q word was created specifically and deliberately as a term of abuse. It is defamatory and derogatory. In this it differs from every other word in the PC list of don'ts. It is indeed unique in the English language. The N words are both legitimate words meaning black. Some chose to take offence at their use. Good manners dictates you try to avoid terms that cause offence (so long as the person claiming to take offence has good grounds and is not merely using the term as a pretext for something else.))

The q word was never owned by gay men. It never applied to gay women. It is not ours to reclaim. It was used as an instrument of torture and any use of it is to be condemned. Unfortunately there is a London based clique that claims to represent gay men but who are in fact a group of fashion following mindless morons. The overwhelming majority of gay men have nothing in common with them... For example most gay men are not prolific users of illegal drugs.

The q word came into being when the repressive legislation outlawing gay relationships were introduced in the 19th Century. At that time it was felt necessary to invent a pseudo medical term (homosexual) and to expunge the legitimate English word (urning) from the language. For everyday people the Establishment created the derogatory term q***.

rod taylor
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by rod taylor » 16 Aug 2019 18:16

John H wrote:
16 Aug 2019 14:32
The q word was created specifically and deliberately as a term of abuse.
In my Enid Blyton books, growing up, kids were routinely solving queer mysteries during the summer hols.

Sideofham
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by Sideofham » 16 Aug 2019 19:46

I always remember many years ago when i was feeling poorly one morning my dear mama phoning my school to explain Julian will not be in school today as he's feeling a little queer!

Perfectly reasonable explanation, although I'm pretty sure it would raise eyebrows in certain quarters in this day and age.

Holaquease
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Re: NEW: LGBTQIA+ Book Group at Kirkdale Bookshop!

Post by Holaquease » 16 Aug 2019 22:57

John H wrote:
16 Aug 2019 14:32
rod taylor wrote:
15 Aug 2019 13:45
:cry: o
Parker1970 wrote:
15 Aug 2019 09:53
I'm in that camp (no pun intended). Though likely more because of my generation. The word queer was used as an insult and it will always mean that to me. If people want to identify as that though, not my concern, as long as it isn't used to refer to me.
Given that both you and John H would object to being called queer but the bookshop and Stuart presumably wouldn’t mind given that they have reclaimed it; how does a sensitive person negotiate this?

I don’t want to accidentally insult someone.

The reading group sounds a lovely idea - I’d recommend a reading of Ginsberg’s Kaddish if you’re looking for texts. Also Jean Genet’s Miracle of the Rose.
Let me explain then

The q word was created specifically and deliberately as a term of abuse. It is defamatory and derogatory. In this it differs from every other word in the PC list of don'ts. It is indeed unique in the English language. The N words are both legitimate words meaning black. Some chose to take offence at their use. Good manners dictates you try to avoid terms that cause offence (so long as the person claiming to take offence has good grounds and is not merely using the term as a pretext for something else.))

The q word was never owned by gay men. It never applied to gay women. It is not ours to reclaim. It was used as an instrument of torture and any use of it is to be condemned. Unfortunately there is a London based clique that claims to represent gay men but who are in fact a group of fashion following mindless morons. The overwhelming majority of gay men have nothing in common with them... For example most gay men are not prolific users of illegal drugs.

The q word came into being when the repressive legislation outlawing gay relationships were introduced in the 19th Century. At that time it was felt necessary to invent a pseudo medical term (homosexual) and to expunge the legitimate English word (urning) from the language. For everyday people the Establishment created the derogatory term q***.
Opinionated, out of touch, old white men telling self-identifying members of minority communities how they should describe themselves is painful to read.

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